Flatpad teepads

[txmxer]

Unfortunately, the volunteer who did it was a competent carpenter, and made it perfectly level, which wouldn't have happened if I'd been on the crew.

I appreciated this statement.

 

[DavidSauls]

The security issue varies tremendously, depending on location. But I'd assume in theft-prone places, they won't be putting in portable tees.

(I know of a public course that put in rubber mats, and they were quickly stolen.)

There have been a few proposals before, for portable teepads. In addition to temp courses, there may be places that would like to move tees from time to time, the way baskets can be moved. Perhaps as tests, perhaps as temporary when the permanent tee location won't be available for some time, perhaps for variety. But the cost of these still seems prohibitive.

 

[txmxer]

On the theft thing.

My first thought is, "no way"....but, then I reconsidered. People will steal anything. In the case of these pads I could imagine people stealing them for personal use.

In that case, I don't see it as an issue that happens often, but one tee pad at the price point we are discussing makes it very painful for a DG course.

With regard to cost per use or lifetime cost. Here we run in to right now versus future. If I can put in a teepad for $200 or let's really amp it up--$1000 for a Conrad sidewalk style versus $2000, well, that math is pretty easy.

I hope you find a market for these where it works. I hope they perform as well as you've said when properly installed.

That said, think about the participants on this site. Sure you have a few folks that are involved at the upper end of DG course design. Designing courses that might have a decent budget (not many that are $2k per tee pad budget). But the majority of discussions are along the lines of "what's the cheapest tee pad I can put in that is decent?" And the answers are along the lines of putting pave stones in at the corners or repurposing demolished construction materials.

 

[biscoe]

What do they weigh? They might get stolen for the steel alone.

 

[Countchunkula]

This is a real concern, but can be mitigated somewhat by making sure the pad has a slight slope -- not enough to throw off players, but enough for water to drain.

We built a deck in the woods and put turf on it. Unfortunately, the volunteer who did it was a competent carpenter, and made it perfectly level, which wouldn't have happened if I'd been on the crew. Anyway, the turf holds water and gets slick, and being in the woods, is slow to dry.

When we later built some solid-surface tees with turf over them, we included a slight grade, and they don't retain water nearly as bad.

As for height, yes, drops on the front of the tee should be avoided. Local courses have added extensions in front of concrete tees with 4" drops. Our 2 raised tees include 4' of raised surface in front of the turf; anyone with the deep pockets to buy flatpads, should be able to afford one longer than the tee, to have a safe run-off.

That said, count me a skeptic; it's a too-expensive solution with too many issues.

Whether you are building a patio or a deck, there needs to be a slight slope to allow for drainage. I believe it's pretty standard and would be called out on drawings. Should be the same for most any outdoor structure. Flat surfaces lead to water collection and water destroys.

Someone with more experience can back me up or remind me that I'm a fool.

 

[DavidSauls]

Whether you are building a patio or a deck, there needs to be a slight slope to allow for drainage. I believe it's pretty standard and would be called out on drawings. Should be the same for most any outdoor structure. Flat surfaces lead to water collection and water destroys.

Someone with more experience can back me up or remind me that I'm a fool.

I assume decks, with spaces between decking, don't really need it. But, per my prior confession, I'm no carpenter.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

So you just need tools, a friend, and a vehicle? Are they special assembly tools? That doesn't seem like a big deal . . .

I certainly have my criticisms of these pads, but this is not one of them. Baskets are much easier to steal. If I wanted to, I could back up to a locked basket and have it in the back of my truck, with the sleeve locked to it in about 1 minute. With a simple hand tool that makes no noise, I could cut it off just above the lock in about half that time.

Until someone actually starts stealing these pads, it is not a reasonable concern IMO.

. . . if someone is going to steal something worth as much money as these are.

I'm not buying this either. What are they worth to the person stealing them? That is the only value that is a concern in thinking about the likelihood of theft. Just because Flatpad can get ~$2,000 as a retail price for the components doesn't mean that they will bring enough money to a thief to make them worth the effort of stealing. And if scrap metal value was an issue, we could already expect to see baskets disappearing left and right.

I'm assuming the smaller ones can be stolen without any real disassembly.

On the other hand, if they are so easy to handle that anyone coiuld walk up to it and carry it off without any other effort, I could see problems, e.g., homeless people stealing them for a bed pad, kids moving them around for no reason, etc.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

What do they weigh? They might get stolen for the steel alone.

If this were going to happen, there should already be a problem with baskets.

 

[biscoe]

If this were going to happen, there should already be a problem with baskets.

There have been sets of baskets stolen in NC for the metal. A course local to me had a bunch of other stuff stolen for the metal that was slightly easier to access than the baskets would have been. I didn't just make it up.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Okay, I see the point you are making. Raised teepads might be a problem for some. Majority of people are not like James Conrad. And majority of fairways doesn't need so much speed on opening throw. So my point is, that we are offering a solution which solves many challenges and fits in to many courses. Not for all, but many or even most.

Agree Conrad's runup makes him an outlier, and there's no universal tee that meets everyone's requirements, for all courses. Satisfying the needs of many/most is about all anyone can hope for. I applaud your effort and it looks like a quality product.

But judging from the video, I think the height of these would be an issue for many players regard to following through on tee shot.

Your tees appear to be about the same height above ground level as a course in my area that has pre-formed concrete slabs that were simply dropped in place on the ground. No attempt to make them flush to the surface in any way.

I myself, and quite a few players I know have noted how awkward the dropoff the front of the tee makes follow throughs. Sure, most of the time, it's OK. But players have 18 opportunities to twist an ankle every round. It kinda doesn't matter how many times a potential injury doesn't happen. It only has to happen once to sideline you for a while.

I realize it may not be feasible to install these flush to the ground, and people can twist ankles just walking on level gloors....

But IMHO: the closer tee surface is to ground level (i.e. specifically the area directly in front of the tee, where your foot comes down on follow through, the less likely players are to twist ankles, and the less severe those injuries will be.

Players usually run up faster, exert more force, and need more room to follow through on tee shots, than on any other shot on a given hole.

Just one experienced player's take.

 

[BillFleming]

Costs are again one thing which should be considered also including scaling factor. To scale you need to be able to deliver the products without adding costs per unit when making more. Flatpad is actually getting cheaper when scaling up, due manufacturing process. Concrete ones will do opposite. Those are machine and labor intensive, thus expensive to scale. Not to mention shipping costs at all..

Concrete doesn't have to be shipped, it can be sourced from a local company. And it CAN be very inexpensive. All a course designer/builder needs to do is find a local concrete company and discuss it with them. When a concrete company has a job, they have extra concrete in the mixer that they normally dump out when they get back to their business location. I know of a disc golf course that had all their concrete pads donated by a concrete company and all they used was the leftover concrete from other jobs.

 

[BillFleming]

On the theft thing.

My first thought is, "no way"....but, then I reconsidered. People will steal anything. In the case of these pads I could imagine people stealing them for personal use.

In that case, I don't see it as an issue that happens often, but one tee pad at the price point we are discussing makes it very painful for a DG course.

With regard to cost per use or lifetime cost. Here we run in to right now versus future. If I can put in a teepad for $200 or let's really amp it up--$1000 for a Conrad sidewalk style versus $2000, well, that math is pretty easy.

I hope you find a market for these where it works. I hope they perform as well as you've said when properly installed.

That said, think about the participants on this site. Sure you have a few folks that are involved at the upper end of DG course design. Designing courses that might have a decent budget (not many that are $2k per tee pad budget). But the majority of discussions are along the lines of "what's the cheapest tee pad I can put in that is decent?" And the answers are along the lines of putting pave stones in at the corners or repurposing demolished construction materials.

Heck with stealing for personal use.....is the metal recyclable? If so, that's a lot of money a person can get from 18 of those tee pads. And it would probably be easier than cutting off catalytic converters.

 

[Countchunkula]

^Easier, but the rare earths in catalytic converters are worth some good money. Scrap steel isn't worth all that much (more than a few years ago, but still). Copper is where it's at.

People will steal pretty much anything. At a place I used to work, someone stole the spare tires off the bottom of each of our service vans over a weekend. What are you going to do with 10 spare tires, rip off the tires and sell the rims for scrap?

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Whether you are building a patio or a deck, there needs to be a slight slope to allow for drainage. I believe it's pretty standard and would be called out on drawings. Should be the same for most any outdoor structure. Flat surfaces lead to water collection and water destroys.

Someone with more experience can back me up or remind me that I'm a fool.

Stick to accounting!

 

[Countchunkula]

Stick to accounting!

How's it going, Brett?

I'm no good at accounting either, but on day 1 of quarter close that's probably good advice.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

How's it going, Brett?

I'm no good at accounting either, but on day 1 of quarter close that's probably good advice.

Excellent! Working on quarterly billing myself, but had 1 too many Spotted Cows at league last night. Bagged some new courses in Minnesota last weekend though and I'll be in your neck of the woods again this weekend, but probably won't have time to get a round in. Saw a kid post he lost 5 discs at Round Barn the other day and smiled to myself a little bit. Glad I just lost the 1!

 

[Flatpad]

Hi guys, lot of comments! Thanks! I will get back to you later. I'm now heading to install some teepads at tyyni tournament. Follow it here https://www.tyyni.com/

 

[Flatpad]

Back from the trip and got some great feedback from builders and users there. Best feedback from the builder of teepads in Tyyni tournament was, that they are every year building new teepad platform to certain fairways. Every year the solution has been different. But Flatpad is easily the best and fastest to built so far.

I really appreciate all for commenting and giving your input on this. It's helpful for us for further deveplopment of the products. I wish that more of you could also see and test our platforms and not just to comment based on what you see on pictuter or videos.

I try to answer some of the topics, but I might miss some.

1. Mud on turf
We have installed and used Flatpad on winter and spring time on very muddy environment. The experience is, that first of all the snow melts and dries quickly on teepad. Water will flow away and sun heats the deck so moisture will evaporate quickly it dries out. Same happens for mud. It is carried to the teepad from shoes, but in will dry quickly and become kind of flakes that are blown away by wind. It seems like it won't accumulate on top to become a problem.

2. Stealing
Flatpad is possible to be anchored on the ground. We have a method for that by using chain and ground screw. It's thought trough, but not sold yet to keep things simple. Can be implemented quickly though.

3. Height and safety
Seems like this in one of the bigger concerns that been pointed out. I would say that this is definitely subject for all of us that we take differently individually. Also that the course and fairway designed affect to that how one needs to do the throw. So by taking all this in to consideration while choosing right type of teepad safety can be maintained. We can make as long teepad as it's needed with as long over stepping area as needed. Height isn't therefore a problem in that sense. And remember that we can dig in the platform in to the ground, partially or even fully.

Some picture's below of different kind of installations.

Here' a picture from spring

Slope partially in ground

Tyyni tournament on teepad

One on top of old teepad fully raised

 

[Flatpad]

Concrete doesn't have to be shipped, it can be sourced from a local company. And it CAN be very inexpensive. All a course designer/builder needs to do is find a local concrete company and discuss it with them. When a concrete company has a job, they have extra concrete in the mixer that they normally dump out when they get back to their business location. I know of a disc golf course that had all their concrete pads donated by a concrete company and all they used was the leftover concrete from other jobs.

This is exactly on point. Concrete can be cheap to built when done as explained. But... You need to have know how and time to go trough the process on making it to happen. Flatpad can be bought and installed without making it too difficult.

Think about basket's. How many of them is nowadays built from wood or concrete because it would be cheaper.

We are thinking of moving on from building teepads on site, to factory built and assembled / installed on site.

 

[ejvogie]

As someone who starts off the teepad, that may not be a hinderance, but it would certainly get in my head. That's just one more thing to think about before hitting the first available.