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Maxing at 400ft on a good day, feel like I have awful lower body mechanics.

The previous video looks like you are setup in spine extension/APT instead of slight flexion.

I think your motion pattern is combining shift and turn, instead of separating the motions shift then turn especially in the initial backswing movement. Your front foot is leaving the ground too late in your backswing.
 
So I've come across alot of material about lunging in the context of baseball hitting which describes my movement issues pretty well? Common features are a lack of backside load, knee extension of the drive leg and poor spine angle. Effectively they describe hitters as performing a lateral lunge with the bent leg as the plant leg. Feeling it out by performing dry swings vs lateral lunges, I can feel that similarity now.

What I'm wondering on the back of this is whether I can use a reverse lateral lunge (sliding lateral lunge) as a way to learn the correct movement pattern? By starting with my back leg as the hinged leg of the lunge and stepping/reaching out with the plant leg I can see how that would put me in similar positions to a reverse stride/sliding hip hinge drill? My only concern is that doesn't quite fit with the butt leading/short plant step idea. Then again the sliding lunge would just be the lateral component and a way to load the backside, I'm imagining once a rotational movement is added it fits better into a full swing?

At the very least I think I can feel what the incorrect lateral move I'm performing is, just got to figure out the right one (in a way I can understand right to it's fundamentals and apply everywhere).
 
So I've come across alot of material about lunging in the context of baseball hitting which describes my movement issues pretty well? Common features are a lack of backside load, knee extension of the drive leg and poor spine angle. Effectively they describe hitters as performing a lateral lunge with the bent leg as the plant leg. Feeling it out by performing dry swings vs lateral lunges, I can feel that similarity now.

What I'm wondering on the back of this is whether I can use a reverse lateral lunge (sliding lateral lunge) as a way to learn the correct movement pattern? By starting with my back leg as the hinged leg of the lunge and stepping/reaching out with the plant leg I can see how that would put me in similar positions to a reverse stride/sliding hip hinge drill? My only concern is that doesn't quite fit with the butt leading/short plant step idea. Then again the sliding lunge would just be the lateral component and a way to load the backside, I'm imagining once a rotational movement is added it fits better into a full swing?

At the very least I think I can feel what the incorrect lateral move I'm performing is, just got to figure out the right one (in a way I can understand right to it's fundamentals and apply everywhere).


I can't lie, I really like this. I'm still extending through the knee a bit here (I think the hip driven aspect of the previous throw was better), but yo we're in posture(ish) right? It feels stupid, but I felt like I could feel my way through it both via the action, and by feeling the way I did it before and trying to reverse it. Also feels very intuitive to vary stride length and stuff. In a first few swings I was too wide in the stance and got stuck between my feet more (could probably go smaller still), but I can see what's going on in this move. Also a good sign was that my head stayed centered (no jerking) without me thinking about it, I just did my natural pendulum swing. Improving the forward move, shifting from behind and coiling better into the back hip (what I think I did well in post #180) strike me as the major things to impove on it?

I think there's quite clearly a little rise in the back hip/leg as the backswing starts coming up from the bottom of the pendulum, I think this is the glute medius stabilisation I improved in post #180, but it seems to be small enough and I recover to prevent me fully swaying over.
 
Feel like I'm really putting some stuff together now. I know how much you guys love my ultimate throws, but I've managed to relate the hip internal rotation and knee control developments to those throws (forehand and backhand) and I really like the results. It looks so much more athletic to me.



I had been struggling to rationalise how the linear move in ultimate is a lunge, but ultimate players keep good posture like disc golfers still. Another note is the ultimate forehand, the plant leg also behaves as the drive leg and hence we internally rotate around that to load up. I'm guessing that the difference is the ultimate throw is purely rotational, the pivot/lunge is basically just there to move our position in x/y and generate some vertical force. I think before in ultimate throws I was combining a shift (that shouldn't be there) with rotation like SW22 mentioned in his last post, if anything hopefully this helps me dissociate that shift and rotation so I can improve on the concepts I'm identifying in the disc golf throw at the moment.
 
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I think in order to get the feel of the new weight distribution I'm having to be quite low and wide, but I can see I'm getting stuck between my feet so really need to work on feeling it in a narrower stance. I'm also more upright than I thought. The throws nearer the end look better to me, I cued the slash thru and staggered my plant more. I think I'm now getting really comfortable throwing within the frame of my body, I'm not however doing it particularly well?

I must say as well, I'm really starting to notice the importance of the hip/ankle stability and strength in this newest posture. Even after a session of these short throws my hip muscles were getting tired (not painful or jammed or anything though), and it was easy to see how not holding a good posture/collapsing would lead to weak/unsafe positions. It's almost reassuring though, helps reinforce the difference between this and what was incorrect before and is helping me understand where that stability fits in to the throw!
 
Watch Eagle's preshot routine and practice that. Note how he gets over the front foot and finishes his hand all the way around behind him.
 
Given i haven't read all of the thread.

Do you have any ongoing injuries?

Are the throws "upshots" power wise?

For me, there's a bit difference in form for my upshots and "full sends" (not like they go further at times, but .😂)
 
Long time no post. I've barely touched a disc in the last 3 months, decided to get back in after a thought.

For the most part I've been working in the gym. Actually putting in a shift to get better lift mechanics down and build strength in the posterior chain has done wonders for me already (just at the level of feeling healthy as a human). It's also given me an appreciation for quite a few baseline posture/mobility limitations. I'll work on those in the long term.

For right now the things I incorporated are the following. Firstly, I'm setting my back foot more externally rotated, as I think my IR is limited in that leg. That way I can get a full backswing without running out of IR and swaying/losing posture. Secondly, (I think due to some lateral pelvic instability) I'm concentrating alot harder to get my plant leg engaged in what feels like ER and some extension. Hard to describe, but almost bringing it from under my pelvis to the outside of my torso, then out in front and laterally to set the plant (somewhat like a side lunge). Lastly, I'm trying to think of my plant leg extending up like a deadlift, clearing the right hip back. Please see below:



I think the third throw is my favourite, to my knowledge it's the first time I'm loading back, shifting forward and still maintaining posture (and I think actually clearing my hips properly?).
 
Man you look stiff. Watch my standstill below and how I move back east on the tee in the backswing so my right knee extends. There is a bunch of standstills of Steve in the first video basically doing the same move.



 
Working on my hip mobility at the moment to correct anterior pelvic tilt and some hip assymetry. Here I'm thinking about squatting down into the plant step with both legs engaged in hip ER, flexion and abduction and then squatting up through the swing.

 
Take video behind tee. You are limiting so much information with only one camera view.

It looks like the disc is nose up with your followthru arm going low.

Keep your left elbow closer to your hip.
 
Appreciate the comments as always, I'll try to do better on multiple views in future but I've just been pushed for time lately. I was intentionally throwing nose up upshots as I was just playing with trying to get better lower body action. The following article laid out some helpful cues as well as examples relevant to my own struggles that seem to have connected with me.

I tried the same prompt on some medball throws, and I'm liking how grounded and in balance they look. However I think it's quite noticeable there's no "x-factor" or hip-shoulder separation, so that's next to work on. Working on the assymetry in my hips and pelvic tilt seems to be paying dividends though.

 
You need to swing vertically/pendulum to load internally, instead of swinging horizontally externally around yourself.

Note in backswing how guy on right loads his lead shoulder down by his hips and back behind his chin and lead hand is underneath the ball. Your shoulders and hands are horizontal and fighting gravity and losing leverage.

Note how in the power position below how guy on right has his chin/shoulder leveraged forward over front foot in athletic snow shoveling posture. You are standing up behind your front foot and losing leverage/athletic posture.
Screen Shot 2023-12-13 at 12.49.51 AM.png
 
Something I've never shown here I don't think is my very first recording of myself throwing. Looking back on it I'm inclined to say despite the bunch of stuff wrong with it, in terms of weight shift/hip usage to my eye its alot more natural. Like I actually transfer weight from one foot to the other and brace up in a way that seems natural. If I'm being generous it reminds me alot of Ricky Wysocki's form.





Something I'm really coming to terms with is how limited my hip mobility is (see below). I think it firmly puts me in the "stiff mover" category, which lines up with alot of your own comments. I think it's why I can't feel/adopt the drive leg/hip engagement cues as coached, I think I either end up compensating/falling out of posture or hurting. Obviously this is something I need to work on (and am doing) but I still want to throw and develop one based around the best mechanics I can manage right now. Looking at old me, flaring both my feet out seems to give me the range I need to shift my weight within my frame. Even if it is horse stanced and limiting my hip turn, I'm not really getting that anyway right now? I guess my point is if you give March 2020 me my upper body mechanics from today, does he fare better than present me with my current lower body mechanics?

I read an interesting article about Jon Rahm and his small hip turn/backswing. I absolutely don't have his muscle to upper body it the same way, but even some of the principles there could be beneficial for me? If I can't handle the hip turn then don't try to overdo it, accept a shorter backswing and load it more with upper body rotation and a faster action?

Both IR.pngLeft leg ER.pngRight leg ER.png
1703068538843.png

I did also work on swinging internally for better results with the medball as seen below.

 
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I don't think the 2020 version was any better except moving faster. Your recent med ball looks better. Brodie Smith probably is closest to you in terms of limited hip mobility and being ER dominant. Some other players you might look at include Climo, Hammes, and somewhat similar but more flexibile... GG, Rathbun, and Kyle Klein.
 
Something I'm really coming to terms with is how limited my hip mobility is (see below).
I'd also just add that it's probably never a bad idea to explicitly work on hip mobility/supporting muscles for moving.

I've had on and off issues with hip/knee mobility & inflammation. I'm finding some of the Weck method stuff I've been using the last month more effective than other moves I've learned in that respect, probably because you're freely swinging all the way through the move with a lever rather than a ball. I think that frees up the hips a bit more moving foot to foot/demands a different kind of adaptation & is definitely closer to throwing a disc.
 
For all my complaining, tapping into 2020 me may have helped me understand doorframe better. Stride is too big, lots going badly about it. However, I'm in frame, felt grounded/coiled, there's evidence of hip/shoulder separation and weight transfer off the back leg and also a little evidence of a tiny can crush? I'd thrown alot emulating the mental image of Ricky/2020 me and was reaching back real high (like a vertical pulldown) but felt a great stretch in my lat. Adjusting my torso tilt relative to my backleg (feel wise feels like stacking back/outside/on top of my back glute, kinda like the feeling of squatting and almost falling backwards) allowed me to translate that high pull to a lateral pull. It also fianlly puts me in a place where my back leg actually feels like it has leverage/can drive.

 
Finally got back to where I was in post #128, but hopefully this time understanding it more. Things that connected with me were to force myself to throw from right pec (eliminate pulling), re-orienting the hammer/disc alignment, and staying closed through the shot. Doing this in the ER dominant posture I'm starting to get the hang of felt decent. I'm not at all as fluid as I am as when I'm strong arming, but I guess I need to work to find that leverage/timing again. I really have no clue how to incorporate a reachback into the shot, reconciling the pendulum with the right pec feel is very alien to me right now and leads to strongarming. Distance wise I was putting putters about 60-70m, mids 80m and drivers 80-100m. I'm gonna do alot more right pec work in the immediate future and work on keeping this posture but getting my footwork cleaner (getting more compression/everting off the back foot). Please find below a comparison of shots where I was/wasn't forcing myself to stay closed.



 
1. Address with eyes on target.
2. Narrow stance width and do not stride.
3. Close/stagger stance moving rear foot back toward east/right tee side.
4. Turn your body/shoulders back. Your body/shoulder/s barely move at all. Bend front knee and extend rear knee to tilt/turn back.
5. Elbow should be as far back behind your center as possible without losing balance/leverage to send everything back forward.
Screen Shot 2024-01-02 at 1.42.57 AM copy.png
 

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