Central Park DGC reviews
9
0
Central Park Disc Golf Course Is Lengthy, Hilly And Challenging Alright 2+ years
Reviewed:
Played on:Oct 17, 2021
Played the course:once
Pros:
PARK DESCRIPTION - This massive park is filled with enough athletic energy to supply the whole county. There is a recreation center, about nine baseball/softball fields, batting cages, eight tennis courts, playground, a 1.1-mile walking trail, admin offices and the disc golf course which mostly has its own area.
VARIETY - There is definitely variety here with wooded holes, a couple of long bomber holes, holes with danger, some technical holes or actually more like some holes which require a technical throw whether that's off the tee or on your second or third shot. Holes 1-3 are wooded, then 4-8 are mostly open, 9-13 are back in the woods, 14 is the crazy tight hole next to the holding water pond and then 15-18 are both long and difficult.
ELEVATION - More than enough to satisfy most everyone's cravings. It's not the constant up-down of Little Mulberry but there's plenty here and it's used well and often.
CHALLENGE - Probably, the most challenging of the 21 Atlanta courses I played on this trip. Play from the long Blues and you'll be playing five holes over 536' and none shorter than 276'. From the Blues, Central Park has to be Intermediate to advanced challenge.
EQUIPMENT - Someone described the equipment as "Meh" and I have to agree. The tee signs are wonderful. They're big, bright, show everything you need and use the same clever A-B basket position clips as many other Atlanta area courses use. There is a practice basket at the start. There are lots of benches about. Was there a course sign/map? I don't recall one. The older Mach III baskets are slightly subpar for this course. They don't show well in the woods like Discatchers do but there are flags on top helping out. The rubber pads are also, IMO, not quite as good as concrete. In my experience, rubber pads are great when they have been impeccably installed. These aren't quite up to that high standard.
AESTHETICS - Once again, I didn't get the overall wonderful vibe here that Mulberry has. It was pretty nice sitting on a bench up above # 5 just taking the whole specter in.
FUN FACTOR - I can tell you the fun factor would have been a whole lot higher if I could throw 400'. As a rec player, it was fun but not quite off the chart's fun.
ROUTING/NAVIGATION - Once again, good but not exactly easy to follow but when you think of the huge distances that this course covers, I suppose just getting around solo without having to call Search and Rescue is more than enough. The on-line map I was using didn't show the two extra holes. There are some hanging next tee arrows from some baskets.
SIGNATURE HOLE - I was kinda enthralled with # 1. Playing alone, all I could imagine what how many different %&$)(?": ways there were for me to get into trouble/spend time searching for my disc on both sides of the tiny open fairway. Instead, I rise to the challenge and throw (for me) about as perfect of a drive as I could hope for. Heck, I thought I was going to bring this rinky-dink little course to it's knees. That didn't happen!
VARIETY - There is definitely variety here with wooded holes, a couple of long bomber holes, holes with danger, some technical holes or actually more like some holes which require a technical throw whether that's off the tee or on your second or third shot. Holes 1-3 are wooded, then 4-8 are mostly open, 9-13 are back in the woods, 14 is the crazy tight hole next to the holding water pond and then 15-18 are both long and difficult.
ELEVATION - More than enough to satisfy most everyone's cravings. It's not the constant up-down of Little Mulberry but there's plenty here and it's used well and often.
CHALLENGE - Probably, the most challenging of the 21 Atlanta courses I played on this trip. Play from the long Blues and you'll be playing five holes over 536' and none shorter than 276'. From the Blues, Central Park has to be Intermediate to advanced challenge.
EQUIPMENT - Someone described the equipment as "Meh" and I have to agree. The tee signs are wonderful. They're big, bright, show everything you need and use the same clever A-B basket position clips as many other Atlanta area courses use. There is a practice basket at the start. There are lots of benches about. Was there a course sign/map? I don't recall one. The older Mach III baskets are slightly subpar for this course. They don't show well in the woods like Discatchers do but there are flags on top helping out. The rubber pads are also, IMO, not quite as good as concrete. In my experience, rubber pads are great when they have been impeccably installed. These aren't quite up to that high standard.
AESTHETICS - Once again, I didn't get the overall wonderful vibe here that Mulberry has. It was pretty nice sitting on a bench up above # 5 just taking the whole specter in.
FUN FACTOR - I can tell you the fun factor would have been a whole lot higher if I could throw 400'. As a rec player, it was fun but not quite off the chart's fun.
ROUTING/NAVIGATION - Once again, good but not exactly easy to follow but when you think of the huge distances that this course covers, I suppose just getting around solo without having to call Search and Rescue is more than enough. The on-line map I was using didn't show the two extra holes. There are some hanging next tee arrows from some baskets.
SIGNATURE HOLE - I was kinda enthralled with # 1. Playing alone, all I could imagine what how many different %&$)(?": ways there were for me to get into trouble/spend time searching for my disc on both sides of the tiny open fairway. Instead, I rise to the challenge and throw (for me) about as perfect of a drive as I could hope for. Heck, I thought I was going to bring this rinky-dink little course to it's knees. That didn't happen!
Cons:
The open parts of the course are exposed to the elements (wind & sun) which is a pretty weak Con, isn't it.
The rough is pretty nasty in places. Hunting for/losing discs is a possibility.
The rubber pads are not the best. A couple could be upgraded.
Discatchers with the yellow band probably would have been a better choice here.
Another weak Con. The course is not beginner friendly. I observed a senior age woman playing # 16 and this poor lady was totally out of her element here. She threw her second or third shot over the fence. Luckily, her husband had one of those clever telescopic retrieving tools and was just able to grab it.
The rough is pretty nasty in places. Hunting for/losing discs is a possibility.
The rubber pads are not the best. A couple could be upgraded.
Discatchers with the yellow band probably would have been a better choice here.
Another weak Con. The course is not beginner friendly. I observed a senior age woman playing # 16 and this poor lady was totally out of her element here. She threw her second or third shot over the fence. Luckily, her husband had one of those clever telescopic retrieving tools and was just able to grab it.
Other Thoughts:
I have been adding a paragraph in many of my reviews about Atlanta's stable of tweener 18-hole courses. I've never meant this as a criticism but more as an example as one area having so many choices between recreational level and a more challenge intermediate, for example. Atlanta disc golfers are actually blessed to have a plethora of 18s ranging from the recreational enjoyable types like Wills and Swanee and then climbing upwards to the nicer and more challenging courses such as Alexander, Little Mulberry and Central Park. And I, by no means, was able to complete the circle, having not been able to get to the course south of Atlanta such as Lenora, Perkerson, McCurry and many others.
But I do know that, when combined with Georgia's favorable disc golfing climate, wonderful rolling hills terrain and a certain lack of underbrush, Atlanta players are very fortunate to have this wealth of nice courses within an hour's drive. From now on, when I see an area mentioned as a possible disc golf destination or a hub, I will be singing Atlanta's praises.
But I do know that, when combined with Georgia's favorable disc golfing climate, wonderful rolling hills terrain and a certain lack of underbrush, Atlanta players are very fortunate to have this wealth of nice courses within an hour's drive. From now on, when I see an area mentioned as a possible disc golf destination or a hub, I will be singing Atlanta's praises.
5
0
Central Park DGC 2+ years drive by
Reviewed:
Updated:
Played on:Jun 18, 2016
Played the course:5+ times
Pros:
Has practice basket
Has most tee signs with locations of the various basket placements
Multiple tees
Multiple basket placements for most holes
Has many benches throughout course
Good mix of open and wooded fairways with some good elevations
Free parking
Has most tee signs with locations of the various basket placements
Multiple tees
Multiple basket placements for most holes
Has many benches throughout course
Good mix of open and wooded fairways with some good elevations
Free parking
Cons:
Many rubber tee pads are not level and are deteriorating
Some baskets are hard to locate from tees - need flags
Needs more next tee signs - recommend a course map for the first-timer
Some long walks between holes (2&3, 3&4, 7&8, 8&9, 11&12, 13&14, 14&15)
Some of the fairways are tight and quite unfair - hole #16 is a beast to get through cleanly
Tee sign for hole #18 is missing
Some holes are more prone than others to flooding (#10, #13, #18)
Some baskets are hard to locate from tees - need flags
Needs more next tee signs - recommend a course map for the first-timer
Some long walks between holes (2&3, 3&4, 7&8, 8&9, 11&12, 13&14, 14&15)
Some of the fairways are tight and quite unfair - hole #16 is a beast to get through cleanly
Tee sign for hole #18 is missing
Some holes are more prone than others to flooding (#10, #13, #18)
Other Thoughts:
This is a nice, challenging course that I enjoyed playing. The baskets are nice and catch well but many of them are hard to locate in the woods. I think if the baskets were painted or had flags and had next tee arrows underneath - I would definitely score this higher. Also, the rubber tee pads should be replaced as some are not level and parts of them have broken off. There's definitely a difference between the red and blue tees - the blues are much more difficult to play in my opinion. There are some long walks between holes so you can expect for your playing time to be extended here. While playing in a tournament here in November 2016, I noted that there are now two additional par 3 holes that are not listed in under the Hole Info of the course: Hole 3b is 276ft that plays uphill to an elevated basket and Hole 8b is 348ft that's flat. Both holes have a shared teepad for the blue and red tees.
2
1
Sersan43
Experience:
15 played
9 reviews
Decent mix 2+ years drive by
Reviewed:
Played on:Jan 26, 2014
Played the course:once
Pros:
Good mixture of open and wooded shots.
Lots of elevation changes, lots. Some view this as a con, but I consider it a pro if you like something different than the vanilla flat land courses.
A shallow stream running by a lot of holes gives a nice obstacle to keep in mind.
Lots of elevation changes, lots. Some view this as a con, but I consider it a pro if you like something different than the vanilla flat land courses.
A shallow stream running by a lot of holes gives a nice obstacle to keep in mind.
Cons:
Quasi difficult to navigate, take somebody who's been there before on your first go around.
Contributing to the above statement, a lot of holes come dangerously close to each other (a few fairways are sorta the same fairway).
Contributing to the above statement, a lot of holes come dangerously close to each other (a few fairways are sorta the same fairway).
Other Thoughts:
Not as rough of terrain as some of the NC mountain courses but definitely better than your typical flat land courses.
5
1
CWSfan16
Experience:
13.4 years
84 played
1 reviews
A Work in Progress 2+ years
Reviewed:
Played on:Oct 25, 2013
Played the course:once
Pros:
- A good mix of open holes and wooded holes
- Multiple tees
- Use of elevation throughout course
- New tee signs
- Can tell work is being done
- Good amount of benches and trashcans strewn across the course
- Multiple tees
- Use of elevation throughout course
- New tee signs
- Can tell work is being done
- Good amount of benches and trashcans strewn across the course
Cons:
- Rubber tee pads (many of the were ripped, torn, overgrown, small)
- Navigation (Threw to a wrong basket even with a map)
- Some holes seemed unfair (Hole 9, 10, and 16 stand out in my mind)
- Wet (The has been no rain recently and still a little wet; would hate to see after a storm)
- The baskets were tough to pick out of the trees (a little colorful paint would help out)
- Navigation (Threw to a wrong basket even with a map)
- Some holes seemed unfair (Hole 9, 10, and 16 stand out in my mind)
- Wet (The has been no rain recently and still a little wet; would hate to see after a storm)
- The baskets were tough to pick out of the trees (a little colorful paint would help out)
Other Thoughts:
- I met a gentleman that was working on the course. He stated that they are planning on putting in Gold tees. Personally, I think the Blues are long enough. I would rather see the time and effort in dealing with the tee pads. I understand it take quite a bit of money to get concrete pads, but I would rather have natural pads than the rubber pads that are there now.
- I noticed that there were a set of White tee pads throughout the course. I didn't play them, but was trying to keep an eye out for them. I probably noticed roughly 10 white tees.
- I REALLY did not like hole 14. It plays along a fence, but erosion has occurred under the fence. There are too many places that a disc can skip underneath the fence into OB
- I noticed that there were a set of White tee pads throughout the course. I didn't play them, but was trying to keep an eye out for them. I probably noticed roughly 10 white tees.
- I REALLY did not like hole 14. It plays along a fence, but erosion has occurred under the fence. There are too many places that a disc can skip underneath the fence into OB
7
1
Bornabuckeye
Experience:
17.9 years
9 played
9 reviews
Can't wait to play it a year from now. (Needs work) 2+ years drive by
Reviewed:
Updated:
Played on:Jul 29, 2013
Played the course:2-4 times
Pros:
Left old #6 alone.
New layout provides a lot more variety of holes, throws, elevation, and mix.
Multiple tees allow for different caliber of players to play.
New layout provides a lot more variety of holes, throws, elevation, and mix.
Multiple tees allow for different caliber of players to play.
Cons:
Navigating the course is dreadful - a group of locals picked me up and they also had problems locating tees & baskets and I had a map!
Tee pads are rubber mats thrown on the ground. The mats have seen a lot of wear and have begun to crack, tear, and mold the roots and rocks underneath them.
Some of the woods holes play really close to swampy areas meaning a lot of mud and water when it rains.
Tee pads are rubber mats thrown on the ground. The mats have seen a lot of wear and have begun to crack, tear, and mold the roots and rocks underneath them.
Some of the woods holes play really close to swampy areas meaning a lot of mud and water when it rains.
Other Thoughts:
Played 1st loop from the blue tees - +8
2nd loop from the white tees - +2
The main problems with Central are both fixable - Tee pads & much, much better directing the players around the loop. Once these improvements are made, the reviews should be better, but at the time of my review, here are my thoughts:
Count me as one of the folks that enjoyed the old Central Park layout, that's not to say I don't like the redesign; just want to mention that I enjoyed the old layout. The redesign has changed this course completely from a bombers course to a technician's course and I found very few opportunities where I could simply cut loose. Not to say I don't enjoy some good tree love
but I get the most enjoyment from watching the disc fly high and far, Central Park used to allow for a lot of that and the redesign has hampered that to a degree. The "style" of the course has changed greatly aside from just comparing the two actual layouts.
Design - I love the new starting holes 1-3 & miss the closing holes from the old course. While #18 on the new track is a very nice hole; getting there isn't nearly as exciting as it used to be and I personally just didn't like #17 at all. It's great that they left old #6 alone (now #11) as the approach shot into that hole maybe the most memorable shot on the course.
To some degree I just couldn't get over the feeling that the redesign was an effort to push golfers aside and away from the park. Sometimes that's a great thing, as it allows for creativity in holes and privacy. But in this instance, I felt it was a bad thing as the course is pushed along the utility lines and backwoods. Needless to say a lot of brush, thorns, and swamp to be encountered out here so I recommend you bring your hiking boots as this isn't a walk in the park anymore. Back when the course integrated more of the main park property, conditions were nicer and amenities were much closer. As a parent for example, I enjoyed checking in on my kids & wife at the park while playing around them or being able to hit the bathroom or benches.
There were some very long treks to be made to get from basket to the next tee - up and over hills and through or around brush and I think some additional benches would go a long way. (One of the "heavier" fellas in the group I played with was having a very difficult time making the loop) I'd never recommend designing a course around the walk, but when your design is like this I think it's admirable to pay extra attention to issues such as this so more people can play - It's hot out there lol, last thing we need is someone passing out. Some cases where getting to the next tee put the player in landing zones of other holes - Not a prevalent problem, but something to be mindful of for sure on a busy day.
While I liked #14 (birdied it twice!), I agree with Daniel's review that moving the pad up and the basket back would be a better solution. If I had a suggestion - moving #5 basket from the retention pond back towards the creek (possibly over) and closer to #6's tee for a par 4 I think it would add another shot similar to #11 or #18 and aid in players navigating the course better.
Overall - I think I'm bittersweet on the redesign - there are drawbacks and bonuses and there is ample room for growth with the new layout as it begins to mold and adapt. It's most definitely a course capable of challenging any player by making the player throw shots uphill, downhill in addition to left and right. But at the same time, the navigation issues and tee pad problems are standouts when being compared to the other courses in town which is why I ultimately gave the course a 3. I will say that I look forward to reevaluating my review in the future as this "new course" begins improves.
2nd loop from the white tees - +2
The main problems with Central are both fixable - Tee pads & much, much better directing the players around the loop. Once these improvements are made, the reviews should be better, but at the time of my review, here are my thoughts:
Count me as one of the folks that enjoyed the old Central Park layout, that's not to say I don't like the redesign; just want to mention that I enjoyed the old layout. The redesign has changed this course completely from a bombers course to a technician's course and I found very few opportunities where I could simply cut loose. Not to say I don't enjoy some good tree love
but I get the most enjoyment from watching the disc fly high and far, Central Park used to allow for a lot of that and the redesign has hampered that to a degree. The "style" of the course has changed greatly aside from just comparing the two actual layouts. Design - I love the new starting holes 1-3 & miss the closing holes from the old course. While #18 on the new track is a very nice hole; getting there isn't nearly as exciting as it used to be and I personally just didn't like #17 at all. It's great that they left old #6 alone (now #11) as the approach shot into that hole maybe the most memorable shot on the course.
To some degree I just couldn't get over the feeling that the redesign was an effort to push golfers aside and away from the park. Sometimes that's a great thing, as it allows for creativity in holes and privacy. But in this instance, I felt it was a bad thing as the course is pushed along the utility lines and backwoods. Needless to say a lot of brush, thorns, and swamp to be encountered out here so I recommend you bring your hiking boots as this isn't a walk in the park anymore. Back when the course integrated more of the main park property, conditions were nicer and amenities were much closer. As a parent for example, I enjoyed checking in on my kids & wife at the park while playing around them or being able to hit the bathroom or benches.
There were some very long treks to be made to get from basket to the next tee - up and over hills and through or around brush and I think some additional benches would go a long way. (One of the "heavier" fellas in the group I played with was having a very difficult time making the loop) I'd never recommend designing a course around the walk, but when your design is like this I think it's admirable to pay extra attention to issues such as this so more people can play - It's hot out there lol, last thing we need is someone passing out. Some cases where getting to the next tee put the player in landing zones of other holes - Not a prevalent problem, but something to be mindful of for sure on a busy day.
While I liked #14 (birdied it twice!), I agree with Daniel's review that moving the pad up and the basket back would be a better solution. If I had a suggestion - moving #5 basket from the retention pond back towards the creek (possibly over) and closer to #6's tee for a par 4 I think it would add another shot similar to #11 or #18 and aid in players navigating the course better.
Overall - I think I'm bittersweet on the redesign - there are drawbacks and bonuses and there is ample room for growth with the new layout as it begins to mold and adapt. It's most definitely a course capable of challenging any player by making the player throw shots uphill, downhill in addition to left and right. But at the same time, the navigation issues and tee pad problems are standouts when being compared to the other courses in town which is why I ultimately gave the course a 3. I will say that I look forward to reevaluating my review in the future as this "new course" begins improves.
5
1
dandaman
Experience:
28.9 years
55 played
21 reviews
A better design 2+ years drive by
Reviewed:
Played on:Apr 7, 2013
Played the course:5+ times
Pros:
Good design; there is a nice mix of elevation and topography to make this course interesting.
Mulitple tee's.
18 quality baskets.
Mulitple tee's.
18 quality baskets.
Cons:
Currently difficult to navigate. Please bring a copy of the current course map when playing. See link below in the other thoughts (I will add it to the links page as well).
As of this writing the course has just been redesigned and the teesigns, numbering on the baskets and next tee signs can be a bit confusing to someone who has never played there before.
Hole 14. See notes below.
As of this writing the course has just been redesigned and the teesigns, numbering on the baskets and next tee signs can be a bit confusing to someone who has never played there before.
Hole 14. See notes below.
Other Thoughts:
OK. This design is remarkably better than the previous versions of this course. There is still some of the old favorites on the course (old #6, current hole# 11 for example) and some new favorites to add as well (1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 16, 18). The design is well thought out and it's not just a bunch of holes thrown out into a field.
There are some things that can be done in the immediate future that would drastically improve this course.
-First order of business: go out to home depot and buy some of the self stick mailbox numbers and renumber the baskets in correct order, while removing the older numbers that are currently on the baskets. This project could be done for about $30 and can be completed while playing a round of golf, and then the course will have a consistent style of numbering for the baskets, and be correct.
-Second order of business: fix hole 14. I know there's not much that can be done to make this into a great hole because of the property line and retention pond, but if it can't be a "great" hole, make it a "fair" hole by shortening up the tee and moving the basket further back from it's current position. I'd also recommend placing the blue tee for 5 on top of the walking track and further east so that more room could be made for a better fit for 14. I know that by doing this you don't turn 14 into a great hole but at least you turn it from a frustrating (nearly invalid) longer hole to a shorter but more valid "fair" hole.
-Hole # 8: The blue tee is a bit of a tweener. Most people are not going to birdie it, but then again most people are not going to bogey it either. The red tee on this hole is great however. It has elevation to it and it is a fun throw. I'd recommend combining both the blue and red tees and just have one tee on this hole.
-17's blue tee should also be combined with red's. I know that the blue tee is has been up there near the ball field for quite some time, and for nearly 90% of the people playing it they won't have issues with it, but that tee would have serious issues with the LHBH thrower. With the limited space available near the fence of the ball field, I don't see how it could fit legitimately make it work without building a very large box using landscaping ties that extends out over the hill. For simplicity sake I'd recommend making this hole only having one tee as well.
-Hole 18; I like this hole, but perhaps the basket position can be tweaked a bit further right than it currently is? I had a tough time seeing the line to attack the basket looking back towards the tee. It appeared that if the basket was moved approx 20 feet to the right there would be a direct line though the trees to approach the basket. Also if you stand at the basket and look back towards the tee, you'll see another approach line to the right of the basket towards the hill. There are 4-5 smaller trees that could be removed to open up that lane a bit to make it more of a viable option for approaching the pin.
-Other observations: Any of the baskets that had been moved from other locations and set into the ground elsewhere should really be set again with fresh concrete. The old concrete balls that are on the baskets were shaped in the dimensions of their original locations and not the new ones. The baskets I saw that had been moved look as they could easily be messed with and be found later to be removed from their current spots, found leaning or worse of all go completely missing. Anchoring the baskets better helps prevents issues from arising later on.
I know that you all are working hard on the current course. Keep it up! The course once all signage, amenities and such are done will easily propel future ratings of this course up. It really is a fun course to play. Hopefully one day we will have another PDGA tournament up there!
New course map:
http://www.fcdgo.org/?page_id=20
There are some things that can be done in the immediate future that would drastically improve this course.
-First order of business: go out to home depot and buy some of the self stick mailbox numbers and renumber the baskets in correct order, while removing the older numbers that are currently on the baskets. This project could be done for about $30 and can be completed while playing a round of golf, and then the course will have a consistent style of numbering for the baskets, and be correct.
-Second order of business: fix hole 14. I know there's not much that can be done to make this into a great hole because of the property line and retention pond, but if it can't be a "great" hole, make it a "fair" hole by shortening up the tee and moving the basket further back from it's current position. I'd also recommend placing the blue tee for 5 on top of the walking track and further east so that more room could be made for a better fit for 14. I know that by doing this you don't turn 14 into a great hole but at least you turn it from a frustrating (nearly invalid) longer hole to a shorter but more valid "fair" hole.
-Hole # 8: The blue tee is a bit of a tweener. Most people are not going to birdie it, but then again most people are not going to bogey it either. The red tee on this hole is great however. It has elevation to it and it is a fun throw. I'd recommend combining both the blue and red tees and just have one tee on this hole.
-17's blue tee should also be combined with red's. I know that the blue tee is has been up there near the ball field for quite some time, and for nearly 90% of the people playing it they won't have issues with it, but that tee would have serious issues with the LHBH thrower. With the limited space available near the fence of the ball field, I don't see how it could fit legitimately make it work without building a very large box using landscaping ties that extends out over the hill. For simplicity sake I'd recommend making this hole only having one tee as well.
-Hole 18; I like this hole, but perhaps the basket position can be tweaked a bit further right than it currently is? I had a tough time seeing the line to attack the basket looking back towards the tee. It appeared that if the basket was moved approx 20 feet to the right there would be a direct line though the trees to approach the basket. Also if you stand at the basket and look back towards the tee, you'll see another approach line to the right of the basket towards the hill. There are 4-5 smaller trees that could be removed to open up that lane a bit to make it more of a viable option for approaching the pin.
-Other observations: Any of the baskets that had been moved from other locations and set into the ground elsewhere should really be set again with fresh concrete. The old concrete balls that are on the baskets were shaped in the dimensions of their original locations and not the new ones. The baskets I saw that had been moved look as they could easily be messed with and be found later to be removed from their current spots, found leaning or worse of all go completely missing. Anchoring the baskets better helps prevents issues from arising later on.
I know that you all are working hard on the current course. Keep it up! The course once all signage, amenities and such are done will easily propel future ratings of this course up. It really is a fun course to play. Hopefully one day we will have another PDGA tournament up there!
New course map:
http://www.fcdgo.org/?page_id=20
