"The Method" by Brian Weissman

[Brychanus]

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Those 3 pics are from his introduction video where he does a short drive. The yellow line is where I would see his tilted axis. In the last pic it is a little weird, because he still has both feet on the ground but I picked that position because it shows him in his doorframe position.

My impression is that the steps he is taking are really short and lack weight. Watching him it feels like he is tiptoeing and his lower body is disconnected from his throw.

In the leftmost pic he is already turned backward/south when he should be squared up above his left foot. The left foot is also turned already which will make it really difficult for him to push off of it/get leverage against his instep.

In the middle pic he would fall over if he pushed off his drive leg. The stance is too narrow and his knee is angled inwards (like mine).

In the rightmost pic his knee is left of his front hip. Swiveling on top of that hip wont work well. He also takes a massive stagger.

His shoulders look a little flat to me, he doesnt have a lot of tilt in this throw. This might also be because of the short drive he takes here. He also barely drops into his plant, instead staying upright the whole time.

First time doing this, so likely to be very wrong. Im open to criticism tho, if you want to point something out.


I also agree with Jaani here, but wanted to take you (Brychanus) up, trying to find something out about Weissmans move.

There is definitely a lot to be said for cutting out the thinking and swinging that thang freely.



Happy to chat more. I think I'd see the axes similarly. Fundamentally any time the balance line is not well-connected from top of head to foot, problems ensue.

Steps: lacking weight is a good observation. I think he does get a very firm/heavy crush and resist in the plant which is where some of the late power and quickness comes from, but otherwise not. I guess recently I've been trying to pay attention to the continuum from Paul Oman steps to Sidewinder Elephant steps to Dickerson full tilt runs. What they all have in common is very high leverage and ground contact/ground force reaction, I'd guess.

Posture is possibly turned too far back compensating for the balance issue. You do see some forms that are quite closed off the whole way (e.g., Dickerson) but they still are unlikely to use Weissman balance.

Stagger to me also looks compensatory for being in opposite tilted balance off the rear side.



All again just in the spirit of curiosity/learning, here's a writeup I did elsewhere. This is another example of how you can observe balance and weight shift mechanics problems that occur in throws just by looking at drill motions, e.g. starting around 1:34 here. All of these apply to his throw.



Here is a reference figure I marked up:


Weissman:
1. Has an open shoulder line, open plant leg/hip, and too flat hip orientation in his posture that requires him to rotate his hips back rather than shift them like walking. This already account for why you see rightward releases. He's throwing "over the top," and/or compensating for it in his plant as I will show. When I do/used to do this move, the balance is also fundamentally tilted in the opposite direction as aggressive athletic motion or a full-speed box step. Everything that happens afterward is a compensation.

2. This is classic power stance and trapping your center and spine between the feet. He should not have to stand in this position to show his transition move. He should be able to stand freely in balance in the tilt no matter where he is. Like Steve Pratt at 4:00. Almost everyone does this wrong, I've found.

3. Compensating posture for throwing "over the top." This is one of the most common misinterpretations of the tilted axis. Notice that Weissman's brace has already shunted his shoulder "up" posturally, his arm is on a strictly "linear" plane toward the trajectory, his hips are relatively still flat, his rear arm is dangling behind rather than collecting him forward into the shift, and his rear heel is pointed farther back from the target rather than collected toward it. This is not classic "squishing the bug," but it is a species of spin-shift. Simon's move functions much closer to a seabas dingle arm adapted for a more horizontal plane.

4. Practice swing afterimages are honest. Brian is showing you the result of swinging with an arm partially decoupled from his shoulder, which is why it is swinging lower. Because he isn't encoding good posture and balance and is swinging over the top, the plane keeps his shoulders on the unnatural "shunted up" trajectory rather than the way Simon's "swings" ("pulls", w.e.) over his plant knee, and his whole arm chain follows that momentum path into follow through. Look at the rear foot again.

 

[HyzerRoc]

Weissman:
1. Has an open shoulder line, open plant leg/hip, and too flat hip orientation in his posture that requires him to rotate his hips back rather than shift them like walking. This already account for why you see rightward releases. He's throwing "over the top," and/or compensating for it in his plant as I will show. When I do/used to do this move, the balance is also fundamentally tilted in the opposite direction as aggressive athletic motion or a full-speed box step. Everything that happens afterward is a compensation.

2. This is classic power stance and trapping your center and spine between the feet. He should not have to stand in this position to show his transition move. He should be able to stand freely in balance in the tilt no matter where he is. Like Steve Pratt at 4:00. Almost everyone does this wrong, I've found.

3. Compensating posture for throwing "over the top." This is one of the most common misinterpretations of the tilted axis. Notice that Weissman's brace has already shunted his shoulder "up" posturally, his arm is on a strictly "linear" plane toward the trajectory, his hips are relatively still flat, his rear arm is dangling behind rather than collecting him forward into the shift, and his rear heel is pointed farther back from the target rather than collected toward it. This is not classic "squishing the bug," but it is a species of spin-shift. Simon's move functions much closer to a seabas dingle arm adapted for a more horizontal plane.

4. Practice swing afterimages are honest. Brian is showing you the result of swinging with an arm partially decoupled from his shoulder, which is why it is swinging lower. Because he isn't encoding good posture and balance and is swinging over the top, the plane keeps his shoulders on the unnatural "shunted up" trajectory rather than the way Simon's "swings" ("pulls", w.e.) over his plant knee, and his whole arm chain follows that momentum path into follow through. Look at the rear foot again.

Nice write-up, I like having the tell with the balance line and the head. In the pics I see drawn up on here the line is usually from head to toe, but they are also usually done on pro-level throwers.

1. Can you explain why his hip orientation leads to him having to rotate his hips backward? I can see the move Weissman does in a lot of people (myself too) and it seems to be a big hurdle to a better x-step.

When trying this myself, angling hips downward causes me to turn back as more weight is on the right foot at this point in the x-step. Angling them upward puts more pressure on the left foot, making it easier to get leverage against it in the transition and staying more open. Does this make sense as an explanation or am I missing something?



Also this OT video makes a whole lot more sense now.

3. This also feels like his left side is just gonna fall down. He got some weight on the left foot instead of the tiled spiral balance of the Steve Pratt video you linked.

4. I looked for the orientation of his shoulder, as I cant make much of the orientation of the arm/elbow yet. When trying to get into this arm position in a dingle arm drill, I can only do it when staying behind my front hip with my weight instead of swinging over/through it. Maybe thats also why he needs some weight on his rear foot and can have his rear hip in that much IR.

 

[Brychanus]

Nice write-up, I like having the tell with the balance line and the head. In the pics I see drawn up on here the line is usually from head to toe, but they are also usually done on pro-level throwers.

1. Can you explain why his hip orientation leads to him having to rotate his hips backward? I can see the move Weissman does in a lot of people (myself too) and it seems to be a big hurdle to a better x-step.

When trying this myself, angling hips downward causes me to turn back as more weight is on the right foot at this point in the x-step. Angling them upward puts more pressure on the left foot, making it easier to get leverage against it in the transition and staying more open. Does this make sense as an explanation or am I missing something?



Also this OT video makes a whole lot more sense now.

3. This also feels like his left side is just gonna fall down. He got some weight on the left foot instead of the tiled spiral balance of the Steve Pratt video you linked.

4. I looked for the orientation of his shoulder, as I cant make much of the orientation of the arm/elbow yet. When trying to get into this arm position in a dingle arm drill, I can only do it when staying behind my front hip with my weight instead of swinging over/through it. Maybe thats also why he needs some weight on his rear foot and can have his rear hip in that much IR.

IMHO even if you don't have mobility or physical issues, the x-step transition is one of the most difficult parts of the move and I do think people are still learning things about it and what actually matters. I'll self-critique too in all fairness at the end. I'm just interested in the mechanics.

1. Here, I think you are noticing this:



There are a few ways to say it, but this is actually related to what I was suddenly realizing about SocraDeez's "booty pop" point earlier in the thread (and a year and a half ago). I guess I would boil it down to the overall posture point with the butt-on views again. If you are balanced more like swinging the ram on the rear side in transition and load and unload the chain with your mass flowing just ahead of the leg, you'll (1) get much more balanced in transition in the tilted axis, (2) be more "seated" in transition like Sidewinder talks about in Buttwipe etc., and (3) be less likely to "tip" in one way or another off the rear leg. Watch a lot of butt-on views! Weissman's balance is at least somewhat opposite Simon's in the transition, so he never really loads over his rear glute the same way, gets stuck, and tips off.

2. I do think there are several viable drive leg moves in an absolute sense and they all don't function exactly the same. But in general posture to get in a quick and balanced transition off the rear side with something like the tilted axis balance seems "right." Btw I talked to Josh recently about his up-up-down-up (or variants) and he told me he just focuses a lot more on balance points now. We seemed to agree that getting optimal X-step balance is a very high-level skill. To an extent it's kind of all working together, or it's not.

3. Yes, one clear diagnostic for slow drills is whether or not you can do the move foot to foot. Splitting the stance and weight in opposite balance always means that you will tip if you try to stand on one foot, which is part of why some people develop "power stance" (including me).

4. Yes, I think I follow. I also tend to think that if you are tipping rather than "shifting underneath", the arm always doesn't have clearance to swing/pull freely unobstructed by the leading hip and body. So you tend to either see shoulders shunting "up" prematurely in the sequence and/or shoulders collapsing and "yanking around" the body. I think both are happening in Weissman's move.

Self-critique: I have had trouble with all of this, which is part of why I am so interested in it. On the one hand, I will probably not physically be able to get a Simon-grade posture due to my rear leg abnormality. However, what I think I'm aiming for is something that preserves enough of the posture to allow me to get some of the compressive load/"booty pop" and land quickly in the plant to maximize quick ground force reaction and get the whole thing up the fairway with a good effort/power/safety/consistency quotient. And even with Waltz-trained tilt control, doing it in athletic posture with all the moving parts it still amazes me that anyone learns to do it as well as the top throwers- but that's part of why they're top throwers. You also see some people throwing very, very far (e.g., Redalen) who aren't doing quite this move, but many of the pieces are there and the balance is closer to Simon's than Weissman's (I've messed around with all of them). I still am not personally sure what the "domain of acceptability" is in a sense where you want to maximize a move. So I'm just plain interested in it.

 

[itlnstln]

Steps: lacking weight is a good observation. I think he does get a very firm/heavy crush and resist in the plant which is where some of the late power and quickness comes from, but otherwise not. I guess recently I've been trying to pay attention to the continuum from Paul Oman steps to Sidewinder Elephant steps to Dickerson full tilt runs. What they all have in common is very high leverage and ground contact/ground force reaction, I'd guess.

I would imagine that run up speed and cadence is highly personal and there's probably not much to glean from it other that what that individual needs to maintain cadence, brace/balance, explosiveness, etc.

I even vary my run up round to round based on how I'm feeling. Sometimes I'm thinking more OT "hula" because my timing is feeling a little off. Other times it's a bit more of a quick, shuffley x-step to get my body moving a little quicker and more compact (this is also helpful to get me out of my head when throwing and let my body take over). Both are getting me to the same end point but solving different underlying problems

I would guess from a coaching perspective I might be more concerned if a person's run up is causing a problem. For example, if a student were running up like Chris Dickerson and they were falling over their brace, it might mean they need to slow down. Similarly, if they were lumbering into their brace and not quite getting balanced and falling back, they might need to get lighter on their feet and speed up.

 

[Brychanus]

I would imagine that run up speed and cadence is highly personal and there's probably not much to glean from it other that what that individual needs to maintain cadence, brace/balance, explosiveness, etc.

I even vary my run up round to round based on how I'm feeling. Sometimes I'm thinking more OT "hula" because my timing is feeling a little off. Other times it's a bit more of a quick, shuffley x-step to get my body moving a little quicker and more compact (this is also helpful to get me out of my head when throwing and let my body take over). Both are getting me to the same end point but solving different underlying problems

I would guess from a coaching perspective I might be more concerned if a person's run up is causing a problem. For example, if a student were running up like Chris Dickerson and they were falling over their brace, it might mean they need to slow down. Similarly, if they were lumbering into their brace and not quite getting balanced and falling back, they might need to get lighter on their feet and speed up.

That makes plenty of sense to me. Learning to alternate between the "smooth Waltz" rhythm and "sharp" rhythm has taught me different things and seems to evoke different effects and opportunities in the body. Exploring the space is very helpful!

 

[Brychanus]

There's a couple really cool pieces of information here that remind me of a couple of things.

I was listening to a lecture from a local S&C guy who is currently working a lot with football players (CFL level, if that means anything to anyone) and a couple of upcoming olympic athletics women. B's about isometric strength immediately reminded me of an exercise that the lecturer indicated they've been using with their football guys in prep for the combine. They have a very fancy and expensive machine that can measure force production. So, they do isometric deadlifts essentially by setting up safeties around mid pull height for a deadlift and have the athletes try to deadlift the bar through the safeties as hard as they can for x seconds. What he did caution is that without the machine to measure the contraction (they tested this by not telling the athletes the results I believe*) it was more difficult for the guys to actually generate maximum power output, but as soon as they had a way to measure it they were generating more force this way than on regular deadlifts. Not dissimilar to a phenomenon in a lot of strength based activities where it becomes hard to produce maximum force when it isn't required. Connecting this to disc golf, it made me think of Seabass' hammer drill and how it more or less teaches you how to 'trick' your body into inputting maximal force into the disc. A little bit of an aside, but I thought it was neat, and relates well to the hammer drill.

Dumbbell jump squats are a staple in my 'pre-comp' warm-ups for the track kids I work with. Reminds me of an old "russian lifter trick" that some of the strong guys would use in the warmup room. They'd overload the bar beyond what they were capable of and just do the eccentric portion of the movement before heading out to the platform. Then, when they actually went to lift the weight they intended to lift, it would "feel" lighter to them and they'd attack the movement with more confidence. I've been meaning to play with this idea in the field trying to "bomb" some throws.

The last point that really stuck out since my last post was the idea of drills as a diagnostic tool. I think there's a huge amount of wisdom to this. Regardless of what sport anyone coaches, there are some really cool videos on youtube from Dan Pfaff (imo the GOAT of athletics coaching) about using the warmup as a movement screening tool. Even if nothing from it specifically is applicable to the sports people are interested in, just observing his thought process in all of it can be a great learning moment. Drills can and absolutely should also be able to be used in that context, in addition to their other values.

I'm not ignoring the stuff about CoM in the brace etc, that's just the area where I feel like my noviceness in the disc golf world comes through, and any thoughts I'd have would be relatively ignorant.

Connecting all this back to "The Method", and I'd be very, very curious to see how Brian moves doing other physical activities and how that relates to his journey in disc golf. Likewise, when it comes to his concepts with the method, using his drills in a diagnostic way is quite interesting to me. Again, in the most respectful way possible his drills just did not land for me in a way that makes sense for how I think about this sport and athletic movements, but, I definitely found diagnostic value in them. Didn't tell me anything I didn't already know about myself and what I need to address movement wise in general, but had I not already known those things it absolutely would have exposed them!

Just wanted to say thank you for this thoughtful write up as well - looks like Dan Pfaff is on my homework list now too.

The whole "directional" or "static" overload portion fascinates me in general and I'd think you nailed it (ha) with the hammer drill crossover.

I think too you are tapping into something very important in terms of moving confidently. Even if a movement is mechanically not perfect, confidence and committing seem like real things to me, and some of the drills and weighted exercises can definitely help with that.

I am very stoked you are discussing all this, feel free to please wax philosophical about anything and everything here lol

 

[Brychanus]

That part still confuses me a bit - how do you stand balanced on top, but at the same time be resisting lateral motion? I've done a lot of OLD and I think not understood the "feel" of it though I probably occasionally do it right. Weight moving behind seems to make a little more intuitive sense. Like walking, where your plant leg catches you. Brian's attempt to teach people the feel of the brace is probably a good idea although I'm not sure if the rear leg IR will do it. Sebastian's alternate made more sense to me.

I was thinking more about this- I think in sidewinders OLD he's deliberately isolating the vertical balance point for some parts of the exercises. But in reality as he lets pressure go from rear foot to front foot, the axis of balance is still tilting. So it's the idea of e.g. a pole vaulter's balance as the pole hits the ground. The pole is the front leg. Sometimes if enough pressure or weight goes over the rear leg, the pole is briefly that leg. But even in pole vaulting the pole is flexing and dynamic. So is the planting/bracing leg because it is not exactly just rotating in place like a stiff pole.

What "natural" weighted drills probably helped me/my body learn a bit about was where the bracing forces could land and secure my posture in multiple directions, which can also involve tilted axes of balance. I also usually focus on tilted balance into the lunges, which is not how people usually do them in the gym and I would not have done before learning all the tilt drills sidewinder made.

My one leg drill also used to be way too "flat" and rotational because I just could not figure out how the heck to get the tilt over the small range of motion. I had to do all the much bigger circular and tilting drills to start to get my body to feel the difference. Once my brain and body were more sensitive it got easier to do it in smaller moves and eventually OLD. I still think it's really weird how long it took me to connect basically the same tilt concepts from Waltz tilt- there's just something very different about athletic posture and an athletic ground force reaction than a smooth, slower weight transition I guess.

I do think in reality it gets even stranger and more complex to describe as you add steps, so I still like to think of the pole vault as an analogy. It's hard to learn these moves in general at a certain point and they are definitely weird to fully describe in words even if they are "right."

 

[TrebuchetDiscGolf]

Holy crap… so much good idea throwing going on here.

Im travelling for the next week and wont have time to properly respond to all of this, but its awesome. (Jet lag at least gave me time to read it all, but there is way too much I want to respond to…)

For now: @Brychanus wow, thanks for the free coaching (seriously). Your eye for balance and such is way better than mine. I have alot to learn from you there.

I will respectfully push back when I have more time, a bit, on the context of my OLD, re: static vs dynamic balance.

But, that said, I do agree with your assessment and that shadow swings tend to show real form issues.

I dont quite follow the 'balance stuck between the feet' idea yet. But I think you are probably correct. About both me and Weissman, possible I picked that up from him accidentally… not sure.

I do see the heel closer to target issue now. Pretty sure I agree with you there and need to make a change in my form. I would agree I tend to spin shift more than I want. I have done it right, but have not locked that change in yet. I spend my little free time coaching rather than working on my form and that fact has been frustrating for the past few months as I have changes Ive wanted to make for a while now but havent had time.

There is a reason I dont have my throw featured in my content. (Good digging to find one though!) re: taking down old content ; )

Anyway, lots more great stuff from everyone that I wish I had more time to respond to but its 5am here…

Thanks y'all!

 

[TrebuchetDiscGolf]

@sidewinder22 Im not teaching Weissmans rear leg spin and I feel thats a sketchy way to accomplish what he uses it for. But it does work to shift peoples understanding away from a rotational hip move (ironically) and towards a more lateral shift into the brace.

I think that may be helpful for beginners, most likely not helpful for us here. It may also have fundamental flaws re:spin shift as Bry pointed out a bit…

Someone else summarized my viewpoint well (thanks!). I think the rear leg internally rotating at all can be a useful tool to help feel hip snap for the first time. Its not the only way to get there, but often we need alot of tools to try out… Once that is felt the IR shouldnt be chased. Ive seen people get stuck on ideas like that alot so I try to use them super sparingly and specifically not emphasize them ever, especially in video content. And to always provide a way out. Ie ok you felt that, now stop and get that feel from doing this: insert more functional movement.

 

[Brychanus]

Holy crap… so much good idea throwing going on here.

Im travelling for the next week and wont have time to properly respond to all of this, but its awesome. (Jet lag at least gave me time to read it all, but there is way too much I want to respond to…)

For now: @Brychanus wow, thanks for the free coaching (seriously). Your eye for balance and such is way better than mine. I have alot to learn from you there.

I will respectfully push back when I have more time, a bit, on the context of my OLD, re: static vs dynamic balance.

But, that said, I do agree with your assessment and that shadow swings tend to show real form issues.

I dont quite follow the 'balance stuck between the feet' idea yet. But I think you are probably correct. About both me and Weissman, possible I picked that up from him accidentally… not sure.

I do see the heel closer to target issue now. Pretty sure I agree with you there and need to make a change in my form. I would agree I tend to spin shift more than I want. I have done it right, but have not locked that change in yet. I spend my little free time coaching rather than working on my form and that fact has been frustrating for the past few months as I have changes Ive wanted to make for a while now but havent had time.

There is a reason I dont have my throw featured in my content. (Good digging to find one though!) re: taking down old content ; )

Anyway, lots more great stuff from everyone that I wish I had more time to respond to but its 5am here…

Thanks y'all!

Right on dude. Thanks for coming back to talk about it. As I will be sure to continue saying, my only goal is always transparent discussion for learning's sake. My intent around DGCR is always that in the small chance it helps at least one other person out there or just clarifies something even if it seems like minutiae, it was worth me writing it.

I think it's fair to put some of my own context and "perception coloring" up front. As we chatted about on the side I think for as much trouble as I've had learning this stuff, one thing I had in common with @sidewinder22 from the beginning is a big tendency to frame everything as balance in part because I had danced, and we both were getting injured frequently trying to learn to backhand taking tips from other people. I am still shocked at how much harder it was/is for me to adjust balance for throwing in athletic posture. I have often learned exactly the same concepts in a dance, but the posture and intent difference is enough to make it its own project for throwing. From an instructive point of view it is relevant to mention that I've already "embraced" some of my own rear side gait issues because (1) I can't fix them and (2) recently figuring out what was wrong anatomically is suddenly teaching me a lot about what does and doesn't work when watching people with intact gaits, and just given me a new puzzle to work through. So, I guess I have a sort of unique vantage point there too.

Just to help frame your response, I think sidewinder would say that the point of his OLD is exactly that it is the dynamic balance and weight shift model, so demonstrating otherwise teaches incorrect balance. That's what I perceive the be the main disagreement in some sense. The images he shared before were showing that the axis of rotation in his OLD throw goes completely vertical, but it "stacks" the balance and CoG through the front leg in transition like Simon here. Of course, the front leg isn't a rigid object so the motion isn't "fixed" in a straight line through the leg, which I also I think a major source of confusion across people.

I think the question you need to ask is, where are you are basing or anchoring or setting up your axis to rotate from most efficiently with a tight center like Simon, or catapulting the torso whip from like James Conrad?

If the rear leg is your axis of rotation then it's moving around during the throw which would kill rotational velocity.
View attachment 337821

I think when yourself or some others think about static balance there is of course a point where you literally cannot balance a live throwing posture like a full X-step and "freeze" in that position in space. In Sidewinder's OLD I believe one of his intents is to say that you can use OLD to have your cake and eat it too: by fixing the axis of rotation to be completely vertically, you can learn to control body tilted balance resulting in being stacked like I described above and in his first link below.

It's also relevant to mention: it's possible that you have a very different idea about where the internal rotation in the rear leg happens in the sequence. In his load the bow, Hershyzer, and double dragon for instance he's trying to train that the internal rotation happens as part of the backswing as the body mass moves back, but as soon as it's moving forward it's external rotation from the rear leg doing the work, which is part of what defines the difference in the rear leg action and why he and pro throwers have the toe lagging behind rather than spinning forward into the shift. Your motion uses a different sequence because it has a different balancing act. I think it is also one of the main distinctions among instructors.

I think what was plenty to base a conversation on, so I'll leave it there for later; here is one of his OLD axis breakdowns I'm referring to. I saw you reply to the first one, but not the second (I'm not "policing" whether you reply or not btw, just interested especially in your response to the second in that case).

ThighMaster move from DG Spin Doctor

Some people have anauralia. They have no inner voice.* Those people are all around you being successful in all kinds of ways. How? I saw a reference to this literature awhile back, and surprisingly, it was something like 30% of people have anauralia. Lots of lightbulbs went off in my head...

www.dgcoursereview.com

ThighMaster move from DG Spin Doctor

I think the yellow line is the imaginary mathematical Axis of Rotation. The spine is not the axis, it precesses around the axis on a tilted spiral. The front leg itself is not really the axis either although it's close, the ankle is the base of the axis as everything pivots centered around it...

www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[TrebuchetDiscGolf]

Which post #s were you curious about my responses to? Those last two you quoted or some others?

I would very much like ti respond to about everything in this thread… and I feel like I read about 40 post worth responding to.

I also skimmed the 'booty pop' ones, but from my skim, I really get the sense there is something there… maybe projecting my own ideas on to everyone elses, but seem worth exploring either way. Curious if anyone else feels that idea is worthy of, or already has, its own thread??

 

[TrebuchetDiscGolf]

Oh ok. You said I responded to the first you quoted, but not the second? Sorry, loopy from jet lag still!

 

[Brychanus]

Oh ok. You said I responded to the first you quoted, but not the second? Sorry, loopy from jet lag still!

Yeah dude get your sleep lol. I was talking about the second there because he was emphasizing some of the axis dynamics, so I was curious what you would say. The one where he gets into Fixed vs. Rigid axis.

 

[timothy42b]

I finally got through all the videos on the Method website.

I haven't got to all of Brychanus's recent vids but they look very intriguing.

My impression so far (not claiming any expertise, just first impression) "The Method" probably works and possibly not for the reason Brian thinks it does. In particular I think that rear hip IR doesn't persist beyond his Frame. It's a mental image, one that works though it's wrong.

A couple of confounding factors, and I think they may affect the analyses of his form. I hope not to offend, but....... Brian does not seem to be a natural athlete. He lacks the smooth coordination of Sebastian, and comes off awkward and uncoordinated by comparison. Without trying to diagnose, it is not unusual for someone a bit neuro-nontypical (like me) to be better at cerebral activity than cerebellum. (like me) If my perception is correct he's accomplished quite a lot.

Secondly. His case study Avi, also not an athletic youngster. He had him whipping his arm in fast twitch motion from the beginning. I cringed a little thinking injury imminent. But it worked, and now I'm realizing that's something I've neglected trying so hard to match correct mechanics at slower tempos.

 

[timothy42b]

Or they used to be. Sling just posted a new video which shows him to be yet another step closer to teaching the brace and stopping the momentum on the front leg and then throwing, which is good.

This was interesting, maybe deserves it's own thread. It does look like he's inching toward a front leg throw. A little strange maybe with the drive knee pointing backwards.

 

[Jaani]

This was interesting, maybe deserves it's own thread. It does look like he's inching toward a front leg throw. A little strange maybe with the drive knee pointing backwards.

Yes, and he still doesn't brace but he's getting there. I mean, he talks about him looking like ALL the pros, but I'm not sure his release is quite there yet. Hell, even mine isn't always there, so who am I to say. But bracing is the next step for Sling to save his knee.

 

[Brychanus]

I'm still legitimately worried about his (1) lower back, (2) plant knee, and (3) throwing shoulder.

 

[StupendousMan]

Slingshot makes my brain hurt.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Thats the second time I've actually clicked on one of his videos. I didn't make it very far.

"I'm the only one you will find teaching this on the internet" Yes, that is a red flag... I don't care what it is you are teaching.

Prior to my own self journey on DG form I had done a lot of looking for drills and teaching methods for various sports for my daughters. Sports I was familiar with, or maybe good at but wanted to know what or how to teach them properly. I was able to learn to sniff BS and move on. It is part of the reason I spent about 3 minutes on /rdiscgolf before leaving. I settled here because even if it seemed weird the discourse (at the time) between SW and Heavydisc sparked the NOT-BS star.

I don't like this guys methods. The body position you get into and how you look in a still photo is the result of the overall good mechanics of a throw... it is not the goal. That being said it is information to correct if you are not matching up at points in the whole motion.

 

[Brychanus]

He's actually mostly just tipping off the rear side when characterizing what other people on the Internet show in the first couple minutes (which to be fair, is a common error on the internet). So I still don't think he has fully encountered or understood concepts like "shifting underneath." Because he can't tilt properly in the backswing he still has to spin off of it (which seems like it is almost universally true).