Santa Cruz, CA

DeLaveaga Park

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4.445(based on 107 reviews)
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3 4
The Katana Kid
Gold level trusted reviewer
Experience: 8.4 years 184 played 56 reviews
4.50 star(s)

What a place! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Nov 26, 2016 Played the course:once

Pros:

Beautiful place.
The combination of challenges is incredible.
The tunnel shots are some of the toughest I've seen.
The mountain shots are amazing.

Cons:

It's a little scary to have discs flying at you from seemingly nowhere. There are nets in places to help, but I heard "FOUR" a lot.

Other Thoughts:

I drove 45 minutes one way to get here and it was well worth it.
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5 3
PapaRick1959
Experience: 7.7 years 27 played 7 reviews
5.00 star(s)

Home Sweet Home! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Nov 14, 2016 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

Lots of varied holes and shots.
Not overly punitive for a beginner.
Super affordable (only $2 per car to park)
Sweet views and ocean breeze
Pace of play even when crowded is good

Cons:

A couple of holes criss cross each other
#13 should really be a par 4

Other Thoughts:

DeLa is the mecca, the original! and the best!
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13 0
lazrman778
Gold level trusted reviewer
Experience: 13.2 years 264 played 100 reviews
4.50 star(s)

DeLaveaga Park 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Dec 9, 2016 Played the course:once

Pros:

Has practice basket

Has concrete tee pads with notches carved across

Has tee signs with locations of the various basket placements

Has a bench at every tee pad if I'm not mistaken

Has multiple basket placements for most holes

Has some mandos

More wooded than open fairways with doglegs and elevations - which will be challenging to the casual player

Park is exclusive for disc golf

Nice scenery

Well-maintained

Porta potty

Cons:

Course design and flow could use improvement as there are some holes that have intersecting fairways

Long 29 hole course can be demanding and intimidating to those not ready for a challenge

Baskets are hard to locate on some holes - need flags or bright paint

Some holes require blind shots - recommend a spotter

Many opportunities to lose discs abound here via rollaways, blind shots, tree catching - recommend backup discs

Needs more next tee signs - recommend a course map for the first-timer

No variety in pars - par 87

Course can get crowded at times as it's popular with players

Pay to park but worth it

Other Thoughts:

This a nice, challenging 29 hole course in Santa Cruz that I enjoyed playing while vacationing out here. I would have never known about this course if it wasn't for Central Coast Disc Golf - thanks guys! I probably would have had more fun if it wasn't raining on the Friday morning that I played. In fact, I was bummed to learn that the baskets for holes 2, 17, 25, 26, 26a, and 27 were removed due to drainage projects and area rejuvenation until March 31st. Making the best of it, this course is a hard one to play while raining. Losing your grip on throwing wet discs can be frustrating enough where there are plenty of crooked trees on tight enough fairways to deflect into a nearby ravine. Or maybe it's the approach shot that hits one of the many exposed tree roots and rolls away down the mountain. Or perhaps the death putt that doesn't find the chains but the abyss instead. After playing this course, I understand how Dela became a verb. After watching the pros play this course from the Steady Ed Memorial Masters Cups, I have profound respect for them more than ever. In my opinion, the course falls short of being perfect. As listed in my cons, number one con for me is the intersecting fairways for some holes. I have played almost 100 courses at this time and only a handful of them have this con. With a park this large, one would assume that there wouldn't be any intersecting fairways. The Mach X baskets were in great shape to play with but most are hard to spot from the tee pad with the trees in between and with all the various basket placements. Some of the holes could have used more next tee signs to direct flow - thankfully I had my course map from DGCR to refer to throughout the round. With the course having varied elevations and lots of trees, some holes such as holes #12 and #15 require blind shots. Many opportunities to lose discs abound here via rollaways, blind shots, tree catching so one should prepare to part ways with a disc. No variety in pars as the par is 87 (29x3) - definitely a technical course where many holes are challenging enough to par despite their distances with some being arguably tweeners. The tee signs appeared to be old and could use updating but I didn't list this as a con - the old signage is somewhat appealing and gives this course character if that makes sense. Playing in less ideal conditions on that day, I saw very few players braving the elements. I understand how this course can be crowded though given how challenging and fun this course is to play. If you're in this area, you should play it as it's very unique.
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5 5
Redline4j
Experience: 156 played 42 reviews
4.50 star(s)

New Pay to Play Course on the Ball Golf Couse 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Aug 3, 2016 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

All the pros have been mentioned in other reviews.

I would like to add that they have added 18 holes to the ball golf course and are soon to open them to the public. The DG will play on the ball golf course concurrent to th e ball golfers. As of the date of this review, 8/3/16, I was told they are still a few months out from going live. They have played a couple of tournaments on the ball golf course and permanently placed 18 baskets. I can't wait to play the ball golf DG course.

Cons:

Poison Oak on the existing DG course. Stay on the fairway, and poison oak is not much of a challenge, but stray a bit off course, and BEWARE!

Other Thoughts:

The course club has done an excellent job keeping this course up and improving where necessary. Mult pin placements make for a different course each time played.
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1 7
Wasp
Experience: 17.9 years 73 played 2 reviews
5.00 star(s)

Iconic 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Jul 27, 2015 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

-Amazing, iconic course.
-Difficult
-Variety of shots
-nice scenery

Cons:

Really dusty at times, but really no complaints.

Other Thoughts:

Go there and play the course. One of the best courses in the country. It's easy to see why so many pro's grew up in the Santa Cruz area playing DeLa all the time.
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1 8
JBrew012
Experience: 3 played 2 reviews
4.50 star(s)

Awesome course! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Mar 30, 2016 Played the course:once

Pros:

Great mixture of fairly open, long holes as well as tough shots with obstacles.

Cons:

Some of the holes were difficult to locate from the tee pad.
A few of the correct tee pads were difficult to locate.

Other Thoughts:

I saw that this course was extremely popular, so when I was on a road trip in the area, I had to give it a go. It was a blast. There were some open shots, but some technical shots as well. The great thing about the technical shots though is that the woods on either side are clear enough on the ground that you can easily spot a disc if you make an errant throw. Good course for beginners and more advanced players. Fun course!
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13 0
mattdabbs
Gold level trusted reviewer
Experience: 20.8 years 104 played 61 reviews
5.00 star(s)

Whole New Respect for Disc Golf! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Jul 19, 2015 Played the course:once

Pros:

I have seen this course played many times on Youtube but actually playing it was humbling. I couldn't believe how much harder the holes were than they looked with the pros playing them. So many of the lines are pretty tight that the pros make look more open as they so easily hit the gaps that are hard to hit if you aren't of their skill level. Just take hole 1, that looks pretty flat online with the pros getting up into the tree line...it takes a pretty long throw to get it "up" there...way harder than it looks.

This course provides a lot of variety to the holes with plenty of length to make birdies hard enough to get and plenty of times you are going to need to shore up your "getting out of trouble shots." I think I had 2-3 birdie looks the whole round and only got one on the "gravity" hole. The kitchen hole played a lot shorter than I thought it would and was easily birdiable.

I really liked that there weren't too many mandos or too many OB lines as the holes had plenty of space between them. The only real overlap/danger was how the top of the world shot (which is spectacular) played over a few fairways and into the parking lot, even to the proshop if you threw too far off course. We were standing in the parking lot and someone skipped one of the parking lot to within one foot of black acing the portable basket the proshop had out at the corner of the parking lot. That would have been an amazing shot if it had gone in!

The elevation was quite a challenge, especially if you aren't use to it. You really have to plan your shot to keep from getting rollaways as best you can. You also had to watch out for poison oak in the rough...main thing is keep it in the fairway as best you can! Hard to manage if you hit a tree but just playing conservative, throwing straight and keeping it on the fairway is a good way to go.

Cons:

- The poison oak was a problem
- Blind shots - while these are fun and would be fantastic if you played this course a lot...it got a bit old having to walk a few hundred feet to see the pin on a good number of the holes.
- Top of the world proved a bit dangerous to a few fairways and the parking lot.
- A bit busy but that was a good thing as we had people in front of us to follow.

All of that is VERY minor...still a 5 star, top rated, must play course!

Other Thoughts:

Definitely play this course! I cannot say enough good about this course and would love to play it again. This course would only get more fun the more you play it as one would be more familiar with the pin placements and where the drop offs and OB's come into play. Also thankful that the park is spacious with plenty of room to fit in all the holes without posing a danger to other players or park users. Too many courses try to jam holes in too tight...this is NOT the case here. Each hold pretty much stands alone which is not usually the case.
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1 7
dgyp
Experience: 35.9 years 42 played 9 reviews
5.00 star(s)

Epic and legendary 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Jun 25, 2009 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

Challenging with no end. many hours of disc. feeling of acomplishment once you finish. beautiful views, weather layout. mix of holes.

Cons:

far too popular for me to play much anymore. one group per hole.

Other Thoughts:

I used to play this course a couple of times a month but cant get to SC like I used to. Learn here and you can play anywhere. epic epic course!
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9 2
Skwirly
Experience: 14.5 years 88 played 9 reviews
4.50 star(s)

Respect the DeLa 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Mar 21, 2015 Played the course:2-4 times

Pros:

-Nice new MachX baskets in each hole
-Large cement teepads with good grip on most holes
-Great variety of holes, very few seem similar
-Challenging, some may find it too difficult but I thought it was just right, not for beginners.
-Great views of Santa Cruz and the surrounding forest, not just on the signature Top of the World hole
-They sell discs at the golf pro shop on the road coming up to the course. They also have a shipping container set up at the course where they sell discs and they guy running it was very nice and knowledgeable.

Cons:

-A few crossing fairways, which really bothered me since it's such a large course, it seems they could cut it down to 27 holes and avoid these crossings, but at the same time it might end up leaving a long walk between some holes.
-At least one teepad that was very small.

Other Thoughts:

One thing I don't consider a con personally, but could go either way for others was the extreme elevation on a lot of holes, this is definitely a good hike. I enjoy the exercise and playing in Northern California that's usually the norm. The crossing fairways really bothered me, but I'm not sure what the best way to eliminate them would be. I went on a Saturday midday and it wasn't too busy, but we did have to wait on those in front of us a few times and for somebody to shoot on the crossing fairways. Overall this course lives up to the hype. You have to play it smart, know how to shape your shots and use the spin of your disc for good placements. I tried to be brave on a couple holes and ended up in the canyons along the fairways. I didn't lose any discs, but I gained a nice poison ivy rash. The poison ivy is easy to avoid if you stay on the fairways or at least don't go too far off them. The Kitchen and Top of the World holes are in my top 5 holes played and they're on the same course. I've played other top of the worlds but they pale in comparison to this one.
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1 7
MCW5379
Experience: 12.9 years 61 played 23 reviews
4.00 star(s)

2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Mar 15, 2015 Played the course:once

Pros:

Just a great course to challenge yourself. Having to attack this course with multiple shot types. Secondary basket locations to add change to the course. A lot more elevation then what there appears to be on video.

Cons:

Only thing I didn't like was that a couple of fairways crossed

Other Thoughts:

Had an absolute blast! Only let 3 holes kick my butt.
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4 7
thespeedokid
Experience: 9.5 years 110 played 34 reviews
5.00 star(s)

World class course. 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Feb 13, 2015 Played the course:once

Pros:

Nice elevation changes. Nicely wooded. Extremely well kept. (It's not overgrown with weeds). Pro shop. Practice green. Great baskets. Great tees in size and quality. (They're like 10 ft by 5ft). Great hole signs. Easy course to follow due in part by the map of the course they give. Scorecards. 29 holes. Challenging but still enjoyable. Variety of shots needed. Surprisingly not overly crowded. Free besides the parking fee. (So bring a bus full of people and split the 2 bucks:). And of course hole 27. I mean come on that beast is epic.

Other Thoughts:

I left the cons blank because this course is really about as close to perfection as it gets. A lot of professional disc golfers play here. Play the course it's well worth the 2 dollars spent on parking.
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3 6
Chuckhuckaba
Experience: 12.7 years 101 played 1 reviews
4.50 star(s)

2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Aug 13, 2013 Played the course:once

Pros:

A challenging course, but very fair. You need to execute a variety of shots to score well. Good mix of short and long holes. Not a bad hole on this layout. I'm from Michigan, so this course resembled some of the Northern Michigan courses I play back home. Very friendly locals, who are helpful when guiding you through the course.

Cons:

None really, other than it was very busy when I played. That should be expected on such a nice course.

Other Thoughts:

I'll be back!
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4 6
Jazzmafia127
Experience: 5 played 2 reviews
4.00 star(s)

Wonderful course 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Dec 5, 2014 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

A great course with a new challenge at every hole. Ups downs and valleys are just a few of the holes types up in the santa cruz mountains. The man that runs the shack i the parking lot is nice and always gives a nice deal on all his discs. The trademark hole, Top of the world, is a great hole with a lot of challenge for all but the best golfers. It's a semi short hole that can be birdied by any player that can get their disc down the ill without hooking it.

Cons:

There's only a few bad things on the course, mainly just holes that eat up discs and a few badly placed trees but overall a great course.

Other Thoughts:

Mainly a awesome course but a fe disc eating holes,enough holes to play a full 2.5-3 hour match if you play all 29. every player on the course is helpful and nice.Play the course if you're staying anywhere in santa cruz, and stop by at dj's mini mart, it's on the way and has every kind of disc. overall a 8-10 course.
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17 1
sillybizz
Diamond level trusted reviewer
Premium Member
Experience: 22.2 years 429 played 393 reviews
4.00 star(s)

Some Issues 2+ years

Reviewed: Played on:Jun 16, 2014 Played the course:once

Pros:

What I really like about this course is the specific type of skill it challenges and lack there of it exploits. There aren't a ton of courses (where I come from at least) that challenge spot placement and landing angle. On most of these greens if you throw a disc not being careful of the landing angle you will be putting uphill and forty feet farther than you thought you were. Almost every hole on the course challenges you in this way and with the different lines and type of shots you are forced to use here if you aren't proficient at this you're not going to score well so you may want to re think that spike hyzer near the basket on every hole.

Good variety here between open and slightly wooded; nothing I would call super tight lines though. Punishment off the fairways is usually moderately severe with a few giant 'sand traps' full of sticker bushes or brush. Saving par on bad throws is difficult or on discs that rolled away.

Cons:

Some may say that having 27+ holes is awesome and while I don't totally disagree with that I have to question multiple crossing fairways on a piece of land this large with this many holes on it. In my opinion the crossing holes are some of the worst on the course and only play in that direction in order to get to the next hole. A few of these holes could be taken out or maybe re worked, I'm not sure but as is there are dumb holes in the middle of the course crossing each other. Going in that same thinking there are no par four holes here and I see no reason why some of the more questionable holes couldn't be scrapped or extended to create a difficult par four here and there. This would be a better use of the land with fewer holes (number of holes doesn't matter) than trying to just get more holes in play if you ask me.

'Top of the world'. I've been hearing about this hole for years before ever playing it and finally seeing I was incredible underwhelmed and disappointed. Not only is this is a relatively easy downhill (not even that far downhill) putter throw but you are throwing into no less than three other fairways and the road and parking lot. I can see someone getting hit in the head with a disc or breaking the window on a car, not exactly the safest hole.

Other Thoughts:

I went with some friends that have played the course multiple times so I didn't have to worry about navigation. I don't think it should be that difficult seems pretty straight forward except for a few areas but the course is always busy so I'm sure you could just follow the group in front of you or ask someone nearby.

I liked the course for a few great holes and a bunch of good/decent holes but like I said there are still some really bad holes and issues here. The course has held up well over the years it seems and still hasn't gave up it's difficulty even to new technological advances in plastic, though there is signs (or lack there of) of vandalism and heavy use. Overall this is a great course to play if you are in the area but don't get overly excited about playing a legendary course and the top of the world because it's slightly over blown.
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4 6
The_Warwolf
Experience: 22 played 10 reviews
5.00 star(s)

I got DeLa'd 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Aug 17, 2013 Played the course:2-4 times

Pros:

I love the elevation changes, the tight lines, the difficult terrain, the number of baskets, the history, the scenery, and the challenge in general. This course is absolutely worth playing if you're even close to being in this area.

Cons:

I've only got to play it twice... that's the only con I can think of.

Other Thoughts:

Play this course if you get the chance. It's something you can't quite put into pictures or videos and just have to experience for yourself.

Bring some extra discs, this course eats them alive. Also bring you good shoes, this course will put your boots, and your body, to the test with it's demanding 27 hole layout. You will not have any leftover energy once you're done with a round at DeLa.
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8 1
Numbnuts
Experience: 23.9 years 10 played 7 reviews
4.50 star(s)

ONE OF THE BEST! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Dec 11, 2013 Played the course:once

Pros:

*Excellent variability
*Multiple pin positions
*Almost every hole has elevation changes
*Good people
*Great challenge, good variety in difficulty
*Very established course, well designed
*Variety in style of holes
*Discs for sale, clubhouse is a shipping container
*Weather is always nice

Cons:

*Pay for parking
*Could lose discs easily on some holes (sheer drops, dense woods, blind shots)
*Some excellent skill required on some narrow, canopy covered fairways
*No maps available (take a pic of the map on the bulletin board)
*No bathrooms near when you get far out
*Outhouses only

Other Thoughts:

The cons are really subjective, as the $2 parking is a pittance to experience this amazing course. Prepare to make a day out of playing this course, Bring food and water, which you can get from a mini mart on the way to the road leading to the course that also has a nice selection of discs. Everyone is nice and even though it is challenging for beginners, my friend who was a newbie didn't seem to mind since this place is so amazing. "The Kitchen" puts you on a precipice where you throw from one platform to another 100ft down, you need some accuracy here, if you miss you prolly just lost your disc! You may want a spotter for some holes. Some holes are wide open, some are through thickets where you have to throw super straight. Sometimes you will be throwing blind, over gulches, up and down, the variability is amazing. Truly memorable and a must for any enthusiast! World class.
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10 1
wpifarmer
Experience: 11.1 years 65 played 5 reviews
4.00 star(s)

Worth the drive! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Sep 11, 2013 Played the course:once

Pros:

Multiple pin placements
Varied hole styles
Concrete tee pads
Rich history

Cons:

Busy
Unforgiving
Intersecting holes
Lots of poison oak
"pro shop" not open when I was there
Runners and Mt. Bikers riding down some fairways.

Other Thoughts:

On a recent business trip I had the chance to drive from Si Valley to play here. It was definitely worth the trip! You guys have seen the videos and read the reviews. It's a pretty awesome place. All holes are par 3's. The holes on one side of the street are essentially all along a hill side, while the holes on the other are mostly on a plateau. The ground was basically devoid of grass when I was here so rollaways (I'm looking at you hole 25) and skip always were common so plan your approaches appropriately. The trees in this part of CA are much different than what we have where I am from (New England). For the most part, in N.E., maple and oak trees can sometimes be punched through with a hard throw due to the volume of the leaves and the way the branches grow. The trees in CA are very gnarly and very random how the branches grow in all directions. They grab discs. If your disc goes into a tree, it will not come out the other side, it likely will not even drop down. So stay out of trees. Also, there are ravines and cliffs everywhere at DeLaveaga. There is also no shortage of death putt opportunities. If you miss a putt, you better hit something and land pancake style. Most holes demand a very precise placement of your drive for a chance at par with lots of opportunity to lose discs on errant drives into ravines. There are several tunnel shots here that require really straight and precise drives, otherwise you're playing pinball the rest of the hole. All the teepads were textured concrete.
The scenery was pretty cool with a huge variety of trees and occasional views of the ocean. It wasn't quite what I expected being almost the Mecca of CA disc golf, but it was definitely awesome. The holes tend to criss cross one another somewhat so listen up, watch out, and call out "fore" especially on holes like 27. this was the most challenging of the three courses I played. It was also the busiest. Even on a Wednesday afternoon/early evening there were people everywhere. It must be a total madhouse on weekends.
The ball golf course down the street sells discs. Which is good for me because the "shop" at the course was not open while I was there and I needed a disc. I would have loved to have purchased some logo discs, but the hours are sporadic according to my playing partners.

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1 9
Twgallagher2
Experience: 2 played 2 reviews
4.50 star(s)

2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:May 13, 2013 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

Beautifully laid out course with tons of variation. It offers challenging shots but will reward you with birdie opportunities for great shots. Probably the best course I've ever played.

Cons:

Can get a big sluggish if you get stuck behind a large group/ inexperienced group.

Other Thoughts:

Get there early and bring water to drink!
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9 0
MrAnderson7
Experience: 12 played 4 reviews
3.50 star(s)

Famous for a reason 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Jun 10, 2012 Played the course:5+ times

Pros:

29 holes that will really test every aspect of your game. Some holes are more exciting to par than many other holes are to birdie. Maps and concrete tee pads on every hole. Multiple pin positions on most of the baskets, with some than can turn the easiest hole of the course to an absolute nightmare (I'm looking at you, "The Kitchen"). Lots of elevation changes and a wide variety of shots. The final shot, hole 29, is the (in)famous "top of the world" shot and will probably be one of your most memorable disc golf experiences. There is a van that parks in the lot that sells nearly every disc on the market for a good price. You can also trade in used discs for cash.

Cons:

The popularity of this course is the source of most of its problems. Expect to get stuck behind other groups multiple times if you play during peak hours. Most players there are experienced and courteous, but on occasion you will find yourself stuck behind huge bunch of idiots who won't wait up to let you play through while they trash the course. The first 6 holes cross over each other a lot, so keep your head up and your ears open for other golfers calling FORE! (Make sure you call it yourself too!) A lot of the course is well worn & packed down, so discs tend to keep on rolling. This poses a problem for the numerous holes that drop off on all sides to a steep ravine. Expect to spend extra time looking for lost discs while avoiding poison oak. Also, this isn't the course's fault, but many people who play here seem to ignore the trash cans so there are often cans and cigarette butts everywhere. When you play here, please please PLEASE pick up your trash!

Other Thoughts:

Parking is $2. Bring cash!
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24 0
mashnut
Diamond level trusted reviewer
Experience: 22.2 years 831 played 777 reviews
4.00 star(s)

An oldie but a goodie 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:May 16, 2013 Played the course:once

Pros:

This course has been around a while, but a lot of the design elements were ahead of their time. This course plays like a newer course, and still offers great challenges 30 years after it was first installed. The terrain here is great, with tough uphill shots, the obligatory top of the world bomb, and lots of fun elevation in between. Several of the baskets are placed next to dropoffs or in spots that make you really think about whether going for the pin is worth the potential punishment. It's always fun to have that kind of challenge in the short game.

There is great variety, both in hole length and hole shape. Some ace runs are mixed in, though generally going for that ace has lurking danger around the pin, and there are some chances to open up and throw a driver as well. Most of the course plays through scattered trees or denser woods with just a couple open holes mixed in for variety. I felt like I needed to throw a great mix of lines to be successful here, and the shots never felt repetitive.

The alternate pin placements looked like they would add to the variety, and it's always really nice to have the current pin position marked on the signs. The tees are nice concrete pads, and the baskets are in good shape.

Cons:

There are some major safety issues here, and with how popular this course seems to be (crowded on the Thursday morning I played) that only magnifies those problems. There are multiple spots where holes cross one another, and even more areas where fairways overlap and errant shots can easily end up on other holes. The top of the world shot is a really fun way to finish the course, but it also sprays discs onto several other holes as well as the street and parking lot.

Navigation is fairly easy, but there are a few spots where the directional arrow to the next tee on the tee sign isn't quite enough. Print a map or pull one up on your phone and it's easy to figure out where to go. There are some major issues with compaction and erosion, tough to avoid with a dryer climate and a ton of foot traffic over the years.

Other Thoughts:

I really wanted to give this course a 4.5, the individual holes deserve that rating and I would play here again if I were in the area. The safety issues are the big thing bringing my personal rating down here, especially since they seem to be avoidable with how much room there is around the course.

Beginners might find this course a little daunting, with some distance, lots of tough lines and moderate punishment on many holes for missing the fairway. Experienced players will find some great tests here, you'll need a complete game to score well and even then you're likely to have a blow up hole or two.
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