dkoz
Eagle Member
The 1 thing that really get's me pissed is when I see the same guy winning tourney after tourney yet they wont move up!! Other then that there's really nothing you can do about it!
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Sandbagging
- Thread starter timj5304
- Start date
DeadEye
Double Eagle Member
I got called a sand-bagger non stop at my first tournament because I played novice. One of the guys I beat had been playing for 4 years, and the guy that took 2nd had cashed out in novice 3 tournaments that month.
Ah, perhaps I should specify. It certainly helps if the people you play with every day are better. Your local league play, too. But for a few rounds in a tournament? It's not like a sport where you're going up against a better defensive player.
I've seen a lot of players move up, especially to open, and plateau without getting any better, despite playing with better players in tournaments.
I've seen a lot of players stay down, keep playing with the same division and keep getting better. In fact, these are the ones the "sandbagger" complaints are about. How'd they get good enough to be called sandbaggers, if they weren't playing against better players???
Heck, almost everyone I play with is much better than I am---to very little effect on my game!
It's an oft-stated axiom about playing with better players making you better, but when I look at the results of those who do, and those who don't, it's hard to verify. At the tournament level, anyway.
Nicely said. I agree with you. I thought originally you were claiming that playing with better people everyday would have no effect on your game. We're good. :hfive:
anyone who plays novice and isnt from ohio is a Sandbagger.
Play with better players when you are not in a tourney. You will be playing with the 50% of the field paying to play up a division. Its nice of yall to donate to them though.
If 80% of the field played the correct division it would be worth while. You have a better chance playing with better players in Int if you play well. If you play like crap your gonna be playing with Rec level guys no matter what Div you Pay to play.
jcrab66
Double Eagle Member
i agree with this in the tourney setting, if i am just playing casual or leagues I like playing with much better players because it helps me to play better however in tourneys what makes me play better is to play with less skilled players because i relax alot more but thats just me, ymmv...
If that's a sanctioned tournament, either he's a member and his rating will bump him up if he's actually shooting better than the cutoff for his division or he's a non member and it's up to the td to pay attention and help hom find an appropriate division. It's also possible that he's one of the few who actually play the division they belong in, and the people playing up from lower divisions can't compete so they call it sandbagging.
jenb
* Ace Member *
I have played my best when carded with people of similar skill. I think it pushes me to be careful but take necessary risks. I can relax when getting trounced in open, because I have no chance, and I can relax when I have a big lead playing with less skilled players. But neither one os those makes me be careful and eek out every last stroke I can get. However, in playing open, I have benefited from seeing what kind of choices better players make in certain situations, but it's no more benefit than caddying for a pro, or just observing as a spectator.
kfellmy
Bogey Member
It's very easy to spot a sand bagger. I was at a tourney recently and played in the novice division. My rating is an 812. I am truly a novice. Several other players in my division were about the same rating. So the competition was pretty good, except one guy that was 10 throws ahead after 3 of 4 rounds. The other players that were local to this course were asking the player, that was way ahead, what division he was in. When he told them novice, they all looked at him funny. Being a former pro poker player I can read people pretty good. They all thought he was better than that. I wish he had moved up. I ended up second.
I've played in two sanctioned PDGA tourneys and both have had players that should have been higher rated. When I looked them up on the PDGA website, their ratings were at the high end of their division.
I've played in two sanctioned PDGA tourneys and both have had players that should have been higher rated. When I looked them up on the PDGA website, their ratings were at the high end of their division.
If their rating was at the high end of the division, they're still eligible for that division. Most players (especially lower rated players) have a lot of volatility from day to day. That same guy who shot well above his rating to win that day has probably also had days where he finished a lot worse. Also, you were the guy who finished second, that makes you the guy everyone is complaining about if he didn't play in your division that day. 
jobwilson
Eagle Member
Here's the solution.
Open / Masters
Adv. Amateur / Adv. Masters
Amateur <935
Novice <850
Players should never be required to go pro if they choose not to.
Open / Masters
Adv. Amateur / Adv. Masters
Amateur <935
Novice <850
Players should never be required to go pro if they choose not to.
You know that's exactly how it is except you took out the rec division, right?
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
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Sandbagging is not defined by people who win their divisions. A lot of people win without being sandbaggers. Sandbagging is intentionally throwing shots or missing putts so you can keep your rating lower to stay in a lower division. Like if you had a 5 stroke lead over the next 3 guys and because you are playing on the same card and when you extend your lead to 10 strokes on the second round you then know you can botch a couple upshots or miss a couple 10' putts . . . that is sandbaggins and I highly doubt that happens often. People playing in a division they are rated is not sandbagging, it is within the rules and part of the game. However, if a guy took a year off of playing pdga tourneys and while he is rated 899, he knows from playing casual rounds or league rounds his game is much much much better than 899 more like 935 rated or so, and he still chooses to play recreational. That is not sandbagging it is just a guy out for the money and not someone who cares about the integrity of the game.
I personally moved up to Intermediate when I won my first rec tourney and I was rated 871 at the time, but I still moved up, because I knew my game was much better than most of the Rec field in the tourneys I was entering. I have since darn near cashed in every intermediate division tourney and my rating had gotten as high as 915 and slid back to 907 and I have only missed cashing in 2 events I think and one was due to injury. That is what the integrity of the game and divisions is supposed to be about but more often than not people stay as low as they can t win as much as they can. Its sad if you ask me but it is not sandbagging!
I personally moved up to Intermediate when I won my first rec tourney and I was rated 871 at the time, but I still moved up, because I knew my game was much better than most of the Rec field in the tourneys I was entering. I have since darn near cashed in every intermediate division tourney and my rating had gotten as high as 915 and slid back to 907 and I have only missed cashing in 2 events I think and one was due to injury. That is what the integrity of the game and divisions is supposed to be about but more often than not people stay as low as they can t win as much as they can. Its sad if you ask me but it is not sandbagging!
Smigles
* Ace Member *
The new USDGC format gives the sandbagging problem a while new dimension.
I htink I will go there and play next year. Just gotta get my rating down by 200 or so till then. Then I can go there, shoot some 1000 rated rounds, and be the happy winner.
I htink I will go there and play next year. Just gotta get my rating down by 200 or so till then. Then I can go there, shoot some 1000 rated rounds, and be the happy winner.
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- Jan 4, 2009
- Messages
- 3,465
Once qualified they did another layer of sandbagging protection if I am correct, they based your projected score off of your highest rated round for the year, making it very difficult to qualify and also still do really well without shooting your absolute best.
AND you are forgetting one big factor . . .you first need to qualify in a qualifying event!
KenTyburski
Eagle Member
I don't see a huge problem besides annoyance. I am rated about 940, which is at the low end of Advanced. But I have to play Advanced, and that's okay with me. I believe I can be a competitive Advanced player... eventually. I'm just not consistent enough yet. I enjoy playing with people that are at a similar or better playing level than I am, so I get some personal benefit out of the division. But I can't be mad at people who are rating 960, 970, or up playing in Advanced and not Open. They've worked on their games and are consistent enough to throw better than me most rounds. So I don't cash consistently. But I will. It will just be a little annoying for me personally until I do.
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gcr_russell
* Ace Member *
I always get so confused by the cries about bagging. Someone always has to win, and someone is always going to play better than they have in the past (and above their rating). If everyone plays their rating than it should never really matter. Even still I've moved up to Open now at 968, to challenge myself, play against players better than myself, and because I love the game so much I'm not too concerned with winning although I'm plenty concerned with ratings. Ive never won (besides doubles and unsanctioned) and played Rec, intermediate, advanced, and now Open.
