Sandbagging

[DavidSauls]

but people that have been playing for a year plus should not be playing in Rec or Nov. unless they are seriously in the 850s or lower.

There is a division specifically for players with ratings under 900, whether they've been playing 1 month or 15 years.

The name is "Reacreational". Misnomer, granted, but that's it's name.

Why shouldn't players rated about 850 (but below 900) play in it?

Otherwise, they play Intermediate and complain that the Intermediate-rated players are sandbaggers and should move up to Advanced, where they'll complain that the Advanced-rated players are sandbaggers and should move up to Open, where they'll lose ever week.

Why not say that players should play in the division where their rating---their skill level---puts them with players of similar ability?

Unless they just WANT to play above their rating, of course.

 

[garublador]

Sandbagging is intentionally throwing shots or missing putts so you can keep your rating lower to stay in a lower division. Like if you had a 5 stroke lead over the next 3 guys and because you are playing on the same card and when you extend your lead to 10 strokes on the second round you then know you can botch a couple upshots or miss a couple 10' putts . . . that is sandbaggins and I highly doubt that happens often.

I'd guess that rarely happens, too. It seems like whomever wins any ratings protected division is usually playing above their legitimate rating. The next tournament they'll play at or below it and not win. If they consistently win then they're consistently playing above the cutoff and will be forced to move up. In other words, I doubt there are many areas where you can both win a division and sandbag because you'll have to play at a level that would put your rating above the cutoff to win.

 

[Emoney]

Ams should get a good player pack for entry fee ( 2-3 premium discs, shirt , mini). Then only play for trophy. Maybe 1st,2,3 get an xtra disc or prize with the trophy.

Sandbagging would be gone and more advanced players bump to pro division.

 

[Apoth]

Ams should get a good player pack for entry fee ( 2-3 premium discs, shirt , mini). Then only play for trophy. Maybe 1st,2,3 get an xtra disc or prize with the trophy.

Sandbagging would be gone and more advanced players bump to pro division.

That's what Dynamic Discs does at their tourneys for rec and it does seem to help push people up into Intermediate.

 

[DavidSauls]

Ams should get a good player pack for entry fee ( 2-3 premium discs, shirt , mini). Then only play for trophy. Maybe 1st,2,3 get an xtra disc or prize with the trophy.

Sandbagging would be gone and more advanced players bump to pro division.

More likely, some other TD would offer payouts and a lot of Ams would go there.

Sandbagging would be gone only because it hardly exists to begin with. At least at sanctioned tournaments.

 

[patdb23]

I'll put myself on the line and present a possible sandbagger scenario. Let me know what you think. I had only been playing recreationally for a little over a year but alot at my local course. My first year in PDGA at my 3rd event I won in MA2 at my local course, shooting a 983avg with the 3rd best overall score (-5 & even, 2rds). During my first year in PDGA I played alot of town events, however my rating never got above 934, as I didn't play well out of town. My second year in PDGA I only played about 3 events and then took 6 months off completely from disc golf.

At the start of my third year, I wasn't sure if I was ready to play MA1 permanently, so I started out in MA2. I finished 3rd in the first event, shooting alright (945avg). The second event was at my local course, same event that I won two years ago. I was debating whether or not I should play MA1 or MA2. I've played both divisions previously at other events, mostly in MA2, and my rating was still around 928. So I decided to play MA2 hoping to do well and use it to spring into MA1 for good. I ended up winning MA2 only by 1 stroke, and it happened on the last hole (967 avg). I did get the bagger calls from the local crowd, but I knew then that it was time for me to take the step up to MA1. Since then I've played nothing but MA1 and my rating has bumped up (941), and I have been averaging 950 this year.

Personally I think sandbagger calls come from locals where a player has a higher advantage and does well at the local course. In my scenario I did well at my local course but out of town I struggled and was inconsistent. My rating dictated I could play MA2. Looking back, I could see that maybe local players should consider playing a division up, espicially if they have already won previously. So it was an awkward position I was in, but I don't regret it, and my thought is that you play within the division you're rated in, until you you're ready to take the next step up or your rating dictates as such. I didn't mind the sandbagger calling, it actually gave me a boost of confidence and I wouldn't of done anything differently.

The sandbaggers we should be looking out for is someone who intentionally throws their game to get a lower rating to stay within a certain division. Or a player who plays local leagues where PDGA ratings do not define which division a player should play in thus allowing them to play in lower divisions.

 

[megamerican]

The sandbaggers we should be looking out for is someone who intentionally throws their game to get a lower rating to stay within a certain division. Or a player who plays local leagues where PDGA ratings do not define which division a player should play in thus allowing them to play in lower divisions.

I definitely agree with that. That's the definition of sandbagging I've known from lots of other sports and competitions. It is intentionally doing worse so you can get into a lower league/division/etc... so you can beat the easier competition.

On Sunday I played against two people in MA2 who were both 932 rated. Both of them ended up shooting 2 strokes better than me in the tournament, making me a close third. Neither of them played worse on purpose so they could stay in MA2 after the next update. Someone did call the winner a bagger during the awards but that came from a drunk person not playing in our division.

 

[DavidSauls]

Oftentimes the "bagger" catcalls are in jest.

I got my first win (Advanced Masters) in my 46th tournament. My buddies yelled "bagger".

My nephew got his first Open win, and someone yelled "bagger". Which was pretty funny.

I don't think an awards ceremony is over until someone's been called a bagger.

 

[slowRoll]

Bagging aint easy...

 

[DSmith]

A few years ago we used to award bags of sand (as a joke of course) to the player/s who would have won the next division up if they had played that division. I may start that back up. :thmbup:

Besides that;
We started discussion on next years Lexington Open here and are probably going for the Novice division being trophy only and the entry fees for all AM divisions being the same.
Just a thought though, what would happen if you did entries like so;
example
Recreational $40
Intermediate $35
Advanced $30

as opposed to the other way around?
It might encourage players to play their divisions or move up as opposed to down. But then again alot of times people try and squeeze into the largest divisional field for the biggest payout.

I dunno, just thinking out loud.

and no we probably wont try this.

 

[patdb23]

Oftentimes the "bagger" catcalls are in jest.

I got my first win (Advanced Masters) in my 46th tournament. My buddies yelled "bagger".

My nephew got his first Open win, and someone yelled "bagger". Which was pretty funny.

I don't think an awards ceremony is over until someone's been called a bagger.

Another way to put it, a bagger is anyone who wins a division or wins more than one raffle prize (raffle bagger)!

 

[DavidSauls]

Another way to put it, a bagger is anyone who wins a division or wins more than one raffle prize (raffle bagger)!

Yep. Raffle Bagger. I like it.

 

[Captain Plastic]

Anytime I have tried to bag or felt like I was
bagging is the time I was farthest from the pot of gold.
Just never worked for me.

 

[JamesN]

Except not all non pdga members are seasoned players.
I also keep track of what the round ratings are for our local players playing league so you just can't come to me if you are a local and try and play novice if you have been shooting 900+ rated rounds in league. It doesn't solve the out of town baggers but it helps solve the local bagging issue.

SON OF A B! You been keeping tabs on me, Dingus Smith?!
I've just been gettin' lucky all summer, honest.