Rules Question -Any issues with this maneuver?

[milow369]

Was playing in a regular weekly club round last weekend - This is a relatively casual league but saying that, I have been called for falling putts inside the 30' ring, I have been on cards where strokes have been called for discs in a questionable water hazard, 2 meter rule, etc. So, casual but with rules enforced.

I noticed the leader on our card happened to drive right behind a large tree. When marking his disc, instead of putting the mini at the top edge of the disc, he took the mini out, started it at the top of the disc then moved the mini counter clockwise around the disc, keeping it in contact with the edge of the disc. He marked his mini at about 9 o'clock on the disc. This bought him 3-4" of space around the tree. He took his shot.

I did not call him on it, no one on the card called him on it. I just noticed it and wondered if it was cool to do this when marking a shot. I assume that since it's no closer to the hole and because the marker was in contact with the original disc that there is no rules violation on this move.

thanks

 

[A.Mutt]

I was under the impression that the marker needed to be on a straight line towards the basket from the lie of the disc.

 

[zenbot]

The marker has to be placed in line with the basket.

 

[scarpfish]

AFAIK, placing the marker to the side of the disc and not on the line of play, to allow for more lateral leverage around an obstacle is a no-no, even if its just a few inches you're getting out of it.

What is perfectly legal is simply using the thrown disc as a marker itself. This way they can be an extra 8" back from the tree as opposed to placing the mini.

 

[A.Mutt]

Good to know, thats how I've been marking. So if I need to go around a tree I use the original throw as the marker to buy me a little more space.

 

[mashnut]

Good to know, thats how I've been marking. So if I need to go around a tree I use the original throw as the marker to buy me a little more space.

Exactly, no need to mark a lie as long as you don't want to throw that same disc. If you do mark it, it has to be on the line of play, which is the line straight from the basket through your lie.

 

[milow369]

Well, it doesn't surprise me that this was an illegal move. To be honest, when I first saw it happen, my first thought was "something stinks". My gut is usually right. The fact that the mini continued to make contact with the original disc made me doubt whether this was legal or not.

Ever notice that those who best know the rules are the one's most likely to stretch them? Is this just my experience? I am a lifelong ball golf player, some of those years competitive, and I just don't remember running into such problems. Perhaps it is because the rules of ball golf have been around for years and years, much longer than the rules of disc golf...

Let me just say this:
Maybe since the PDGA continues to tweak/change the rules, many have lost their handle on the rules, for example: Ruling on OB - Used to be that if any part of the disc was in, the disc was playable and not OB. Now, I understand that if any part of the disc is over the OB line, it's OB. Two meter rule is another example, no?

I can't pull out my PDGA rule book and point to a ruling about anything. I think most of my fellow players are in the same boat. I know it's my responsibility to know the rule book inside and out, especially when playing in tournaments, but I've read through it several times and there are lots of grey areas/obscurity. It seems that the PDGA would be doing itself and the sport a service if it could simplify and come out with a boiled down set of rules/principles that most could grasp.

Long story short, the game I play in on the weekend it semi-casual, semi-competitive and if someone feels the need to stretch the rules, pencil-whip the card, etc. to beat their friends that's their problem/insecurity. We're playing for plastic tags after all.

My goal is to just have a good understanding of the rules of disc golf so I don't violate them unknowingly.

anyway, thanks for your great input as always

 

[biscoe]

Ruling on OB - Used to be that if any part of the disc was in, the disc was playable and not OB. Now, I understand that if any part of the disc is over the OB line, it's OB. Two meter rule is another example, no?

incorrect on the ob- the only thing that changed is the line itself is now defined as out rather than in. still remains that if any part is in disc is in.

two meter rule- good riddance.

 

[trifocal]

This is a good example of why I don't play " casual leagues" where money is involved.

 

[scarpfish]

Just to clarify a couple of things:

Exactly, no need to mark a lie as long as you don't want to throw that same disc. If you do mark it, it has to be on the line of play, which is the line straight from the basket through your lie.

One exception to this rule. If the direct line from the basket to your disc runs the wrong side of a mandatory, you use the mandatory object instead of the basket to mark your lie. Per section D below.

http://www.pdga.com/rules/80312-mandatories

two meter rule- good riddance.

Not necessarily. The two meter rule was never fully abolished. It was left to each tournament director's discretion. Some places have abandoned it, and some have not.

http://www.pdga.com/rules/80308-disc-above-the-playing-surface

 

[Three Putt]

Yeah, I played a round recently with a pro whose disc landed half in-bounds and half in a creek. The problem was that the half that was "in" was against a retaining wall so there was absolutely no way he could take a stance behind the disc. He knew the rule, he just acted dumb to see what we would let him get away with.

 

[Three Putt]

two meter rule- good riddance.

Not necessarily. The two meter rule was never fully abolished. It was left to each tournament director's discretion. Some places have abandoned it, and some have not.

Two meter rule good: If you have crazy nasty cedar trees or some other dense foliage behind the basket. With no two meter rule, you can just gun a shot in there and if it sticks up in the trees you can just take an easy putt with no penalty. The two meter rule forces you to be more careful approaching that pin.

Two meter rule bad: You have a fairway with a handful of trees. You hit one and the disc happens to stay stuck two meters up. It's a double penalty. You already hit the (censored) tree so your drive is already short. Now you also get penalized becasue by pure chance the disc got hung up in the tree. It's unfairly punitive.

Solution: Leave it up to the TD. Smart TD's will not blanket enforce it for the entire round and will put it in effect only on holes where it makes sense.

 

[ERicJ]

AFAIK, placing the marker to the side of the disc and not on the line of play, to allow for more lateral leverage around an obstacle is a no-no, even if its just a few inches you're getting out of it.

What is perfectly legal is simply using the thrown disc as a marker itself. This way they can be an extra 8" back from the tree as opposed to placing the mini.

Good to know, thats how I've been marking. So if I need to go around a tree I use the original throw as the marker to buy me a little more space.

Exactly, no need to mark a lie as long as you don't want to throw that same disc. If you do mark it, it has to be on the line of play, which is the line straight from the basket through your lie.

Correct. By using the thrown disc as the marker you gain more distance away from the basket and obstacle. But you must still technically have your supporting point on the line of play which means through the center of the disc. So just because you're using a wider marker doesn't buy you any additional latitude in the "horizontal" direction.

 

[Roc1Time]

two meter rule- good riddance.[/QUOTE]

WHY?? Good shots dont end up in trees! You should have to take your shot in the tree if 2 meter rule is not in effect, I mean thats where your lie is. If your not getting stroked then you should have to climb baby

 

[trifocal]

two meter rule- good riddance.

WHY?? Good shots dont end up in trees! You should have to take your shot in the tree if 2 meter rule is not in effect, I mean thats where your lie is. If your not getting stroked then you should have to climb baby[/QUOTE]

Actually....opinion....some good shots do end up in trees. They just were not great shots. I'm for tree climbing, but where do I place my marker and where do I place my contact point if my disc is caught in a branch in a hanging limb 8' offthe ground?

 

[TalbotTrojan]

Two meter rule bad: You have a fairway with a handful of trees. You hit one and the disc happens to stay stuck two meters up. It's a double penalty. You already hit the (censored) tree so your drive is already short. Now you also get penalized becasue by pure chance the disc got hung up in the tree. It's unfairly punitive.

Everyone plays by the same rules as far as 2 meters are concerned so I do not think that it is unfairly punitive. A bummer yes, but not unfairly punitive.

As far as the marker disc, I probably would have said something because he was leading on the card. If you are loosing big I will let you get away with things, but if you are going to win, you had better win by the rules. In many instances there is a warning first and then penalty strokes for future infringements. I would guess that this would be the case for this type of infringement. Even falling putts have a warning first.

 

[danhyzer]

I don't know why the 2 meter rule was abolished. Did it cost a pro some $$ because of they're unlikely luck. Maybe we should say if you throw it in a lake it shouldn't be OB either. These are obstacle's maybe we should put courses in big old fields like the Anderson-Dean Community Park in Harrodsburg, Ky. or Centennial Park in Wilmore, Ky. (in between these 2 courses there might be 6 trees <27 holes> within the course). Bring back the 2 meter rule and call it the 6' 2" rule.

another rule I don't understand is the way we use the metric system within our sport. America has the most DG courses and America doesn't use the metric system. How many times do you have to a newbie of how many feet a putt is instead of using meters or how far you have to be behind your disc when you throw. I never hear anyone using the metric system even when explaining the rules at some of the tournaments that I go to. This is a rule we need to get rid of instead of the 6'2" rule

 

[mashnut]

Except of course, for hole lengths which we measure in feet...

 

[ejvogie]

Actually....opinion....some good shots do end up in trees. They just were not great shots. I'm for tree climbing, but where do I place my marker and where do I place my contact point if my disc is caught in a branch in a hanging limb 8' offthe ground?

You mark it at the spot directly below it on the ground.


803.08 Disc Above the Playing Surface

A. If a disc comes to rest above the playing surface in a tree or other object on the course, its lie shall be marked on the playing surface directly below it. If the point directly below the disc above the playing surface is an out-of-bounds area, the disc shall be declared out-of-bounds and marked and penalized in accordance with 803.09. If the playing surface directly below the disc is inside a tree or other solid obstacle, the lie shall be marked on the line of play immediately behind the tree or other solid obstacle. The director may designate a one throw penalty for discs that come to rest two meters or higher above the playing surface. The director may declare the two meter rule to be in effect for the entire course, or just for individual objects.

(Sections B through D are only used if the two meter penalty is in effect.)

B. If a disc has come to rest above two meters, as measured from the lowest point of the disc to the playing surface directly below it, the player shall be assessed a one-throw penalty. This penalty applies only if the disc is above in-bounds. The player shall proceed from a lie marked in accordance with 803.08 A.

C. No penalty shall be incurred if the disc falls, unassisted by a player or spectator, to a position less than two meters above the playing surface before the thrower arrives at the disc. The thrower may not delay in order to allow the position of the disc to improve.

D. If the two-meter status of a disc is uncertain, either a majority of the group or an official shall make the determination. If the thrower moves the disc before determination has been made, the disc shall be considered above two meters and the thrower shall proceed in accordance with 803.08 A and B. If a player other than the thrower moves the disc before a determination has been made, the disc shall be considered below two meters and the interference rule shall be applied as it relates to the thrower and the player. See sections 803.07 B and C.

 

[tamahawk]

I've seen some people throw a shot and use the thrown disc as the marker, but instead of leaving it as is, actually flip the disc over, toward the basket. Ultimately, what was the front is now the back, and is basically the same marking position as if laying a mini down along the front edge, is this legal?