Man dies while playing disc golf

[nyrblue2]

After reading this thread I am trying to figure out how he got electricuted in the first please. If you know anything about electricity (which by the sounds of it, most of you don't) you have to be in contact with a ground to get electricuted. So unless he was bare foot and steped on this line he sould not of gotten electricuted, rubber is not a conductor so voltage would not of travled thru it to him. Sounds like there is more to this story then the media is revealing. Possible he went and touched an end? From the looks of that aerial photo this type of wire was triplex and is already insulated, so if power line was down, just "stepping" on it would not of done anything due to no exposed wire.

As others have said, rubber shoes are not going to save you. Air is not a "conductor" either - bravo to the mention of dielectric breakdown:



And the line that fell was almost certainly not insulated. I'm not sure what you see in pictures that makes you think it's insulated.

 

[KniceZ]

This blows my mind. How does a lack of power take priority over a potentially lethal downed line? If you would have asked the 1,000 people, "which is more important, your electricity, or the life of anyone who visits the park tonight?", I'm sure they would be willing to go without power so that the kid could live another day.

How can convenience ever take precedence over safety?

If there's a live line down in somewhere that a kid could stumble onto it, it shouldn't matter if 1,000 or 1,000,000 people have to go a couple DAYS without power until it's fixed.

It's electricity people, not oxygen.

So let's see if I'm understanding you correctly - a downed power line in a park that's closed is more important than a power outage at someone's home or a neighborhood? What about their medical equipment, the stop lights, or public lighting on the city sidewalks. There's major safety ramifications to having neighborhoods out of power as well. Besides, I remember as a child, people calling up our house and cussing my mother out becaues they didn't have electricity so they could watch tv. Companies do pay attention to the customer demands.

I don't have the details but at least I'm willing to accept that the company was following normal protocol. Maybe the power company was busy dealing with live electrical wires elsewhere. If the crews were back at the shop eating donuts and they left this unsafe condition exit that's completely unacceptable and the public should demand to facts.

 

[mashnut]

FWIW, everyone is assuming that there weren't downed power lines in neighborhoods or other heavily populated areas that took precedence over a downed power line in a park where nobody was supposed to be at that time.

 

[bradharris]

1,000 customers with power VS. some wandering child's life.

You're over simplifying the events to a fault.

First of all, the power company was likely dealing with hundreds of downed lines. Don't forget, this was a major storm system moving through. So there were likely other downed and live lines that had to be attended to.

Secondly, they may not have even known that this particular line was live. They got multiple reports that there was a downed line, but as we've already established, those callers had no way of knowing if that line was live. The calls could very easily be mis-interpreted as "we have no lights for the tennis courts." Making it a very low priority fix.

Thirdly, considering there were widespread outages, this line may have been dead when it was reported. And other restorations up the line may have "re-lit" it.

Bottom line is this: there is way more to both sides of the story than any of us can even begin to know. There will be an investigation and likely a legal battle, ending with an assignment of fault. This is not the place to fight that battle.

 

[tampora]

So let's see if I'm understanding you correctly - a downed power line in a park that's closed is more important than a power outage at someone's home or a neighborhood? What about their medical equipment, the stop lights, or public lighting on the city sidewalks. There's major safety ramifications to having neighborhoods out of power as well.

We have regulations for stop lights that are dysfunctional: treat it as a 4-way stop.

Anyone with vital medical equipment in their home should have a backup plan for the inevitable power failure.

There is no neighborhood that should expect 100% power service at all hours of every day.

 

[tampora]

FWIW, everyone is assuming that there weren't downed power lines in neighborhoods or other heavily populated areas that took precedence over a downed power line in a park where nobody was supposed to be at that time.

It still bewilders me that people would rather have power in some places and fatally dangerous power lines in others, as opposed to having NO power in the entire county until they have enough time to ensure the safety of the residents.

Even if the line was dead and on the ground and a fix elsewhere 're-lit' it, they knew there were downed lines, yet they had wanted to have a live grid anyways.

 

[KniceZ]

^^ this ^^ (Brad's post)

I only responded because I was amased by the simplistic - why didn't they fix THIS dangerous situation. I just wanted folks to consider that while this was a dangerous situation maybe there were other HIGHER priority dangerous situations and the power company considered this lower priority.

Final comment then I'm out of this : It's curious that no-one seems to be yelling at the local Parks Dept for leaving this park open, or at a minimum putting up adequate barricades. They knew about this for 12 hours. Why shouldn't the Park Director loose his job. Why isn't the government liable. Is it because it's almost impossible to sue the government. Or is it just becuase we like going after companies?

 

[tampora]

I only responded because I was amased by the simplistic - why didn't they fix THIS dangerous situation. I just wanted folks to consider that while this was a dangerous situation maybe there were other HIGHER priority dangerous situations and the power company considered this lower priority.

I wasn't suggesting that they put this power line in the park at the top of their list. I was suggesting they kill all power to the affected areas until they can be sure no one is going to trip on a downed line wherever it might be: in a park, on a street, in a field, etc.

Surely, it can't take 12 hours to kill all power to the affected areas.

 

[gvdg jake]

It still bewilders me that people would rather have power in some places and fatally dangerous power lines in others, as opposed to having NO power in the entire county until they have enough time to ensure the safety of the residents.

Do you have any idea how long that would take?

Dear Paying Customer:

We are informing you that we will have a county wide power outage until further notice. We need to ensure the safety of the whole county first. Yes all back roads/alleys/rear easements/etc.. We hope to have the whole county inspected by the first of the month. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[disc qualified]

so, are you suggessting that every community turn off all power after every severe storm "just to be safe"?

 

[gvdg jake]

I wasn't suggesting that they put this power line in the park at the top of their list. I was suggesting they kill all power to the affected areas until they can be sure no one is going to trip on a downed line wherever it might be: in a park, on a street, in a field, etc.

Surely, it can't take 12 hours to kill all power to the affected areas.

It can when your understaffed for a huge storm. I'm sure once they saw the extent of the damage, they called other power companies for help with getting power restored. It can take weeks to get stuff working depending on how bad it is. When hurricane Irene came through here 2 years ago, it took almost a week to have everything restored.

 

[JC17393]

Final comment then I'm out of this : It's curious that no-one seems to be yelling at the local Parks Dept for leaving this park open, or at a minimum putting up adequate barricades. They knew about this for 12 hours. Why shouldn't the Park Director loose his job. Why isn't the government liable. Is it because it's almost impossible to sue the government. Or is it just becuase we like going after companies?

The park was closed when the victim was killed (it always closes at midnight). He parked outside the park and walked in, so presumably there was some sort of gate that prevented him from driving in and parking in that lot right next to the first tee. I'm not sure what kind of barricades would have kept him out, unless the whole place is fenced in.

I guess you could ask why they didn't immediately shut down the park until the wire could be addressed, and it sat there for hours while the park remained open. But no one stumbled on to the wire before the unfortunate victim did, so maybe there was some sort of preventative or protective measure taken while the park remained open? A sign, a park official, heck, even a tournament official...something.

 

[tampora]

Dear Paying Customer:

We are informing you that we will have a county wide power outage until further notice. We need to ensure the safety of the whole county first. Yes all back roads/alleys/rear easements/etc.. We hope to have the whole county inspected by the first of the month. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I'm not concerned in the least with the amount of time and effort it would take to ensure safety. I'm also just as not concerned with the loss of profits of the power company for having to do so.

How do you think Mr. and Mrs. Moeder would respond to this question now that they have first hand experience in the matter?

It took her a few decades to raise her son. I think the county can go without power for little while.

 

[tampora]

In response to: "Surely it can't take 12 hours to kill all power to the affected areas", Jake wrote:

It can when your understaffed for a huge storm. I'm sure once they saw the extent of the damage, they called other power companies for help with getting power restored. It can take weeks to get stuff working depending on how bad it is. When hurricane Irene came through here 2 years ago, it took almost a week to have everything restored.

You mean, there isn't a simple way to cut all power exiting the main station? I'm not talking about going to each downed line and disconnecting it. I'm talking about killing ALL POWER.

 

[Pwingles]

FWIW, everyone is assuming that there weren't downed power lines in neighborhoods or other heavily populated areas that took precedence over a downed power line in a park where nobody was supposed to be at that time.

At the time of his death, yes.

What about the other 6 or so hours of time the park WAS open....

Bottom line, someone along the line is guilty of negligence. 6+ hours of time a park goer, child, pet or whatever was potentially at risk. Insanity.

 

[Pwingles]

It can when your understaffed for a huge storm. I'm sure once they saw the extent of the damage, they called other power companies for help with getting power restored. It can take weeks to get stuff working depending on how bad it is. When hurricane Irene came through here 2 years ago, it took almost a week to have everything restored.

Wasnt a huge storm. After the first 20 min it was a light to moderate rain and it was spotty

 

[Pwingles]

Since you seem intent on defending the power co. jake, how would you argue these points;

- they were notified immediately of the line ~3:45-4pm

- they were then called 3x at 10pm by Jack Lowe (no answer i believe)

- The argument they trespassed is valid, but, if the park closes at 10-11pm like most parks, even at dark in some places, thats a time lapse from 4-9 ish that it wasnt addressed, in any form. How do you justify that? No signs, red tape, patrol man posted, how do you expect to convince anyone there was no negligence there? As i said before, what if a child from a nearby neighborhood was playing after the storm? What if someones pet had wondered into the park?

- it sounds like all you have is "they were trespassing" and "the power co was very busy"

- if someone had been hurt at 6pm are they less or more liable?

 

[JC17393]

You mean, there isn't a simple way to cut all power exiting the main station? I'm not talking about going to each downed line and disconnecting it. I'm talking about killing ALL POWER.

So thousands upon thousands of people and businesses who otherwise weren't inconvenienced by the storm have to be inconvenienced for hours, if not days, to prevent one death? Talk about using an H-bomb to knock down an anthill.

I would guess that more death/damage would result from a lack of power city/county wide than would result from accidental electrocution by downed wires.

 

[JC17393]

- The argument they trespassed is valid, but, if the park closes at 10-11pm like most parks, even at dark in some places, thats a time lapse from 4-9 ish that it wasnt addressed, in any form. How do you justify that? No signs, red tape, patrol man posted, how do you expect to convince anyone there was no negligence there? As i said before, what if a child from a nearby neighborhood was playing after the storm? What if someones pet had wondered into the park?

Do we know for a fact that the bolded is true? I mean, that nothing bad did happen with that wire on the ground while the park was open may not have been simply a case of good luck. Maybe there were preventative measures taken by someone to keep people away. Measures that went away when the park closed or were rendered useless by the fact that it was dark out at 3AM.

We should keep in mind that this guy only stumbled on the wire because he couldn't see it. In daylight, he probably is no different than the dozens of folks who were in the park from 4-9ish, sees the downed wire and stays away.

 

[tampora]

So thousands upon thousands of people and businesses who otherwise weren't inconvenienced by the storm have to be inconvenienced for hours, if not days, to prevent one death? Talk about using an H-bomb to knock down an anthill.

I would guess that more death/damage would result from a lack of power city/county wide than would result from accidental electrocution by downed wires.

You must really hate to be inconvenienced. Death is pretty inconvenient too.

How many dead kids would be necessary for you to agree with cutting power? Ten? Fifty?

I say zero.

The people who die because they failed to secure a backup power source for their ventilator, or, those who run an intersection with a inoperative stoplight, are taking their own lives. Going for a walk in a park at night is hardly risky behavior.