PDGA Tournament Option

[The Hammer]

Shoot, when I played am I was just happy to get money to spend somewhere. If retailers didnt take a profit then why the heck would they come to events. There would be no reason to ever run a business then. For a company like Pandamonium, we just take all the profits ad put it right back into the company to buy more stock and stuff. Not a single one of us takes a profit from anything. I know we run things differently because we are not in it to make a profit, but thats because we all have real jobs and we do this for fun in our spare time.

I'm the same way. Unfortunately, disc golfers being the way they are, they seem to think that everyone is out to rip them off. Many of them don't seem to understand how basic commerce works.

 

[Rob Martin]

Say for example, Intermediate is $25 for a C-Tier. Player's Pack is One semi-premium disc (Pro, Champion, Z, Lucid, Opto, whatever).

The retail for said disc is $15.

There are times I would prefer to just pay the $10 and get nothing. Yes, this is basically a (expensive) league, but the the difference being it is higher points, more accurate rating (90 vs 30 players), better organized, etc.

Am I just crazy here?

 

[Thumber]

Say for example, Intermediate is $25 for a C-Tier. Player's Pack is One semi-premium disc (Pro, Champion, Z, Lucid, Opto, whatever).

The retail for said disc is $15.

There are times I would prefer to just pay the $10 and get nothing. Yes, this is basically a (expensive) league, but the the difference being it is higher points, more accurate rating (90 vs 30 players), better organized, etc.

Am I just crazy here?

Nope, not crazy, just entitled. The OP is very entitled.

No one is forcing a player to play in a tournament. But this contention that, "I don't want the disc, so I'll just pay $10 instead of $25" is utter crap.

You pay for the right to play in the tournament. You are free to not play. You are not free to demand a different price structure because you don't want something that is clearly part of the entry fee.

Trophy only for Ams is the way to go.

 

[DavidSauls]

Say for example, Intermediate is $25 for a C-Tier. Player's Pack is One semi-premium disc (Pro, Champion, Z, Lucid, Opto, whatever).

The retail for said disc is $15.

There are times I would prefer to just pay the $10 and get nothing. Yes, this is basically a (expensive) league, but the the difference being it is higher points, more accurate rating (90 vs 30 players), better organized, etc.

Am I just crazy here?

If you are, then I'm crazy too.

Though around here, the usual numbers are $40 entry, or $25 without the disc.

BUT.....most players are addicted to the merch, and it's more fun to play in a tournament with a big field, so I can live with the prevailing system. Not my preference, but I'll do it.

 

[DavidSauls]

Nope, not crazy, just entitled. The OP is very entitled.

No one is forcing a player to play in a tournament. But this contention that, "I don't want the disc, so I'll just pay $10 instead of $25" is utter crap.

You pay for the right to play in the tournament. You are free to not play. You are not free to demand a different price structure because you don't want something that is clearly part of the entry fee.

Trophy only for Ams is the way to go.

That's not fair---he didn't demand to pay differently, just said he'd prefer it.

The O.P., on the other hand, demands to play for free.

 

[Thumber]

If you are, then I'm crazy too.

Though around here, the usual numbers are $40 entry, or $25 without the disc.

BUT.....most players are addicted to the merch, and it's more fun to play in a tournament with a big field, so I can live with the prevailing system. Not my preference, but I'll do it.

I have no issue with tournaments with low entry fees and no PP. My issue is when players think they should be able to pay less because they don't want something included in a PP. Either pay the entry or don't play

And yes, you are correct, I was a little unfair to Rob M....

Complaints about entry fees and what you get for those entry fees drives me up the wall.

I always assume my entry fee allows me to play. Everything else is gravy

 

[The Hammer]

I have no issue with tournaments with low entry fees and no PP. My issue is when players think they should be able to pay less because they don't want something included in a PP. Either pay the entry or don't play

I don't really have much use for PP discs, etc. I will go buy what I want.

But I would never expect a TD to offer me a lowered entry fee just because I didn't like the PP.

I wish all golfers had this mentality.

 

[Rob Martin]

OK - so change the numbers a bit.....
$25 entry, $15 valued disc.

Typical retail mark up is 100% - I worked retail - buyer at Home Depot - 100% is very normal on lower priced items such as this.

$10 difference + $7.50 markup difference.

If someone paid $17.50 - the wholesale price of the disc is the only thing removed.

 

[The Hammer]

OK - so change the numbers a bit.....
$25 entry, $15 valued disc.

Typical retail mark up is 100% - I worked retail - buyer at Home Depot - 100% is very normal on lower priced items such as this.

$10 difference + $7.50 markup difference.

If someone paid $17.50 - the wholesale price of the disc is the only thing removed.

The problem is that once you offer this to one person, everyone wants to customize how much they pay and what they get. It's a can of worms that no TD needs to deal with. They have enough on their plate as it stands. If the entry is $25, either pay $25 and live with what you get, or don't and get nothing.

 

[Rob Martin]

Entitlement - just noticed certain individuals that are using this word, yet don't donate to this site (no crownie thingie next to their name).

Interesting.

Seems entitled to use a service but don't want to pay for it.

 

[Rob Martin]

The problem is that once you offer this to one person, everyone wants to customize how much they pay and what they get. It's a can of worms that no TD needs to deal with. They have enough on their plate as it stands. If the entry is $25, either pay $25 and live with what you get, or don't and get nothing.

One size does not always fit all.

Having options, even gear them towards benefitting the TD - I don't really care - will increase the turnout for the tournie. My life choices limit me to about 1 tournie every 6 weeks. If I had more payment options, I would play more often than that - and those payments would mean more money, not less, to the TD. I'm happy, TD is happy.

One size does not always fit all.

 

[The Hammer]

One size does not always fit all.

Having options, even gear them towards benefitting the TD - I don't really care - will increase the turnout for the tournie. My life choices limit me to about 1 tournie every 6 weeks. If I had more payment options, I would play more often than that - and those payments would mean more money, not lease, to the TD. I'm happy, TD is happy.

One size does not always fit all.

Have you acted as TD, or assisted one? Trying to cater to everyone makes the TD's job endlessly difficult. Adding as many heads as possible is not the goal of every TD. Trying to manage a successful event is. When you add a bunch of new variables, the job becomes much more difficult to manage.

 

[ScottyLove]

I mentioned the idea of a no disc player pack to my vendor and instead offer everyone a voucher. I figured he'd be down with that since instead of paying Innova $1000 for stamped tourney disc, we'd buy the voucher from him and he'd make even more money.

He said NO WAY! Most love the player pack. Just a vocal minority here. We averaged 94 players in 15 events this year... and it was because of 2 things:

1) Great Player Pack
2) Great payout

If you have these 2 simple things, the folks will come in droves to play in your tournaments. Recreational division winner in tournament I ran nabbed $161 voucher. You better believe we'll have to step up to B-Tier and two courses so we don't turn as many away next year.

 

[heartman]

every time i read one of these threads it makes me want to stop running am events.

You and Keith should get together and run a tourney: you do the pros and he'll do the ams

 

[biscoe]

I mentioned the idea of a no disc player pack to my vendor and instead offer everyone a voucher. I figured he'd be down with that since instead of paying Innova $1000 for stamped tourney disc, we'd buy the voucher from him and he'd make even more money.

He said NO WAY! Most love the player pack. Just a vocal minority here. We averaged 94 players in 15 events this year... and it was because of 2 things:

1) Great Player Pack
2) Great payout

If you have these 2 simple things, the folks will come in droves to play in your tournaments. Recreational division winner in tournament I ran nabbed $161 voucher. You better believe we'll have to step up to B-Tier and two courses so we don't turn as many away next year.

i sincerely doubt those are the only 2 reasons people come to your events. if they are then we are even worse off than i thought.

 

[Thumber]

Entitlement - just noticed certain individuals that are using this word, yet don't donate to this site (no crownie thingie next to their name).

Interesting.

Seems entitled to use a service but don't want to pay for it.

WTF? Is this a reference towards me?

I never said i was entitled to use this site nor do I expect anything.

Try and keep on target here. A sense of entitlement is a big issue in the DG world and has been created by some tournaments offering ridiculous enticements to am players to come and play. 150% PP sound familiar.

Run a few tournaments before you go telling other TDs what they should be offering you.

 

[The Hammer]

I mentioned the idea of a no disc player pack to my vendor and instead offer everyone a voucher. I figured he'd be down with that since instead of paying Innova $1000 for stamped tourney disc, we'd buy the voucher from him and he'd make even more money.

He said NO WAY! Most love the player pack. Just a vocal minority here. We averaged 94 players in 15 events this year... and it was because of 2 things:

1) Great Player Pack
2) Great payout

If you have these 2 simple things, the folks will come in droves to play in your tournaments. Recreational division winner in tournament I ran nabbed $161 voucher. You better believe we'll have to step up to B-Tier and two courses so we don't turn as many away next year.

I see this as a serious problem that is unsustainable. Events should be successful based on the quality of the event itself, and it's own merits. A TD shouldn't have to pay people to show up to his/her event. If the only way you can get people to your event is by paying them, you have a crap product.

 

[Rob Martin]

Have you acted as TD, or assisted one? Trying to cater to everyone makes the TD's job endlessly difficult. Adding as many heads as possible is not the goal of every TD. Trying to manage a successful event is. When you add a bunch of new variables, the job becomes much more difficult to manage.

I've been chewing on the idea of running one for about 9 months. Admittedly the thing that is stopping me is the logistics of it.

Having even more payment options would make that more difficult.

However - I personally know some TD's in this area. Adding heads is very much one of the goals.

I'm not bagging on our local TD's if you happen to read this - you guys rock.

Working in business, growth is often a goal. I don't believe in business growth for growth's sake. If it isn't profitable, why grow? I'm suggesting ideas. Maybe there should be a option from the PDGA that would allow a TD to have lower entries for everyone - not just those that want it - and no player packs.

Idea:
R-Tier (rating only tier)

$15 entry
- $3 PDGA fee
- $1 Club fee (the club around here gets a buck a person which is well worth it because the club puts in a town of work)
- $3 other misc expense that I don't know about
- $5 to TD for their work
- $3 to payout.

No player packs. Small payout. Probably would not attrach much Advance players.

Maybe it's a bad idea, but it is AN idea.

 

[Rob Martin]

WTF? Is this a reference towards me?

I never said i was entitled to use this site nor do I expect anything.

Yep.

Entitlement is more than just the DG tournie. It is getting something for nothing.

You are getting the use of this website for nothing.

Pay up - buy a membership.

 

[Thumber]

There is also an interesting mentality shift between Open players and Ams. Most Open players i know couldn't care less about a PP. We want to play for cash and recognize that your entry fee is simply to support the event and cash pool we are playing in.

Some Ams seems to expect a Great PP, Huge Payout and low entry costs. That is not sustainable

Personally I think Am events should be low entry, no PP and trophy only

Alternative is higher entry, great PP and trophy only

I think the analogy about PPs being like loot bags at kids parties is very applicable.

What really grinds me about these threads is the focus is often on "What am I getting out of my entry fee". I place the most value on the golfing itself. Others seem far more interested in the loot bag and I don't understand that mentality