Not a dumb point. I don't compete in the Open division so when I sign up for a PDGA event, I am handing over $ to the pro purse without having a chance to win it back. There are no cash prizes for the Intermediate division. Rec, Intermediate and Advanced division entry fees are all padding the pro purse. I've had this conversation with many other players at my skill level that have felt the same way. Didn't expect so much hate. :\
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PDGA Tournament Option
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Not a dumb point. I don't compete in the Open division so when I sign up for a PDGA event, I am handing over $ to the pro purse without having a chance to win it back. There are no cash prizes for the Intermediate division. Rec, Intermediate and Advanced division entry fees are all padding the pro purse. I've had this conversation with many other players at my skill level that have felt the same way. Didn't expect so much hate. :\
ScottyLove
Double Eagle Member
WTF! Never played in a tournament like this and never would. Around here, none of the amateur money goes to the pro field. That is downright theft if that goes on. In the tour most popular in these parts, each division plays only for the money paid into that division.... simple and easy.
Boy, and to think some of us complain that all those AMATEUR divisions get non-cash prizes of significant value that they can turn into some respectable coin on eBay, or the marketplace, all for being just lousy enough to not be a pro, or even play in the AMATEUR division above theirs.
That's a blanket statement against all TD's for actions that only some TD's do.
And like you, they have the choice to vote with their wallets and not enter tournaments. Hell, if there are "many" others players, I don't know why you guys don't go run your own tournaments.
More like tough love. And compared to a lot of people who use this forum for their petty "the world revolves around me" problem soapbox, I'd say you've gotten off light....so far.
I think he's referring to a degree of the markup on Am merch turning into added cash. It is a common, but not universal practice. I don't think he actually means turning Am money directly over to the pros.
Yup, and when that happens it's the TD taking money that he would be entitled to keep or use for expenses and rolling it back into the tournament. I certainly don't expect TDs to do that, but I'm also not going to get on their case about basically adding cash out of their own pocket.
Want to buy a DD Ranger Bag? You have a passion for this game and deserve a quality bag. $100 slightly used.
Allurex
* Ace Member *
That's not what happens at all. If you think TDs are doing that, ask them where your registration money goes, specifically.
And remember that the purse for the Pro Division is higher than all of the AM Divisons because the pros pay a higher entry fee, and there is often added cash from sponsors or the TD personally.
In a direct sense, no. In an indirect, and perfectly legal under PDGA guidelines sense, sometimes.
I would venture that the biggest source of added cash from "the TD personally" comes via Am merch markup. And I can't blame them. Its a helluva lot easier than pounding the pavement for sponsors when he has better things to do.
As long as the PDGA minimums for that tier were met, and the TD isn't valuing the stock stamp Star/ESP caliber disc I got in my player's pack at $20+ to make that possible, I'm perfectly cool with the practice. I am an AMATEUR after all. What he paid for the merch wholesale is none of my beezwax.
zrxchris
Birdie Member
I just ran a B tier with a True Amateur for all non pro divisions. The Tuscaloosa Pro Classic.
I did 3 hot meals over 2 days
I had one CTP for each division (6)
I gave a free disc to the first 10 registered am's
I did some side games and have away another 6 discs.
I had a vendor Onsite if you wanted to buy some discs
I had snacks, drinks and fruit available at 2 stations on the course both days.
I had a raffle that am's could have a chance to play the first round with a top touring pro.
Men were $20, women 15
I had 30 am's
I covered my cost to rent the course, food $ prizes. My cash added came from the city so the pros were well taken care of.
I broke even and everyone has a good time.
I did 3 hot meals over 2 days
I had one CTP for each division (6)
I gave a free disc to the first 10 registered am's
I did some side games and have away another 6 discs.
I had a vendor Onsite if you wanted to buy some discs
I had snacks, drinks and fruit available at 2 stations on the course both days.
I had a raffle that am's could have a chance to play the first round with a top touring pro.
Men were $20, women 15
I had 30 am's
I covered my cost to rent the course, food $ prizes. My cash added came from the city so the pros were well taken care of.
I broke even and everyone has a good time.
Wow, thats some wierd stuff. In WI we just play for peoples entry fees pretty much. The money in open stays in open, the moeny in adv stays in adv and so on. Most of the TD's run things that way, and most only take money out to pay the pdga fees, permit for closing the park and a possible venue for tournament central.
CaptainAnhyzer
* Ace Member *
You may wanna get with the local TD before the next tournament and ask a few questions. He may be able to help you see why tournaments cost money to play.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
every time i read one of these threads it makes me want to stop running am events.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,514
I haven't read the full thread, just mainly the OP, so I apologize if this is a repeated comment.
You can tell the OP has NO CLUE what they are talking about and has no tournament experience.
Without even factoring in purchasing payout, the following are expenses that players, like the OP, always forget.
- PDGA Sanctioning Fee
- PDGA Per Player Fee
- Optional PDGA Insurance
- Park Fees (some parks charge to rent shelters, "rent" the course, etc)
- Leaderboard card / Scorecard printing
- Leaderboard (one time fee - they aren't cheap - someone had to pay for it)
- Water Jugs (one time fee type thing)
- Ice
- Water
- Sharpees
- Pencils
Now my question to the OP - would you like to run an event and collect no entry fees and cover all these costs?
Not to mention the frustration of a lot of your time and energy put toward an event that will be extremely poorly attended and will have lots of people complaining about the format.
You can tell the OP has NO CLUE what they are talking about and has no tournament experience.
Without even factoring in purchasing payout, the following are expenses that players, like the OP, always forget.
- PDGA Sanctioning Fee
- PDGA Per Player Fee
- Optional PDGA Insurance
- Park Fees (some parks charge to rent shelters, "rent" the course, etc)
- Leaderboard card / Scorecard printing
- Leaderboard (one time fee - they aren't cheap - someone had to pay for it)
- Water Jugs (one time fee type thing)
- Ice
- Water
- Sharpees
- Pencils
Now my question to the OP - would you like to run an event and collect no entry fees and cover all these costs?
Not to mention the frustration of a lot of your time and energy put toward an event that will be extremely poorly attended and will have lots of people complaining about the format.
^^this.
I'm glad I run my amateur divisions at low costs. $20 for the tournaments with a player pack, $10 for the tournaments without one. No payout.
Doing it any other way would just give me headaches.
We are dam successful in running tournaments and being involved in them every where we go. $30 for rec and int, $40 for adv and $50 for pro. We take money out for all the pdga fees, course permit and then 100% of the rest of it goes to Am players packs and payout with all the money in each division staying in that division (which is the way it should be). Its really a simple concept but some TD's feel the need to take money from each player to pay themselves. But the money to be made is off of am payouts and sales.
So you and your crew pocket the am mark-up as your "payment"? That's cool, good for you. If only more players (ams and pros alike) wouldn't get up in arms over that practice, it would probably be more common. And if it were more accepted, maybe TDs and events would get even better. The TD burnout rate would probably go down considerably if the standard expectation was no longer for them to operate at a net loss for every event. And making a little bit off an event probably makes them more likely to continue to run their events, and well.
Do you expect a retailer not to make a profit on selling discs, apperal, accessories? And who gets angry at a retailer being at an event and accepting funny money?
I dont think I have ever met a single person who was angry that a retailer makes a profit on selling DG stuff.
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The Hammer
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 4,862
There are a handful of very vocal folks here in Arizona that get all stinky every time the payouts are in gift cert for our local brick-and-mortar shop. They don't seem to understand that retailers are in the business of making money, and not giving away free ****, or discs at cost.
Shoot, when I played am I was just happy to get money to spend somewhere. If retailers didnt take a profit then why the heck would they come to events. There would be no reason to ever run a business then. For a company like Pandamonium, we just take all the profits ad put it right back into the company to buy more stock and stuff. Not a single one of us takes a profit from anything. I know we run things differently because we are not in it to make a profit, but thats because we all have real jobs and we do this for fun in our spare time.
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