Disc Golf Rule Nazi Stories

[mashnut]

There is one caveuat; a "safe" lie.

I.E. your disc is next to poison ivy, and you are seriously allergic, or next to a gigantic wasps/hornets/bees nest, you play a "safe" lie, agreed by the group and no closer to the whole. I believer you can get 2 meters? There are some situations where that can come up, like a loose riverbank where you could injure yourself etc.

Please make sure you look at the rules before trying to interpret them, this is why there is so much misinformation floating around about the rules. Ivy is nowhere in the rules, nor is "safe lie". Those situation you can take optional relief and have a stroke added to your score, but there isn't free relief any time you feel your lie is "unsafe". Directly from the rulebook:

Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

So a TD could say that Ivy is eligible fo relief.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Please make sure you look at the rules before trying to interpret them, this is why there is so much misinformation floating around about the rules. Ivy is nowhere in the rules, nor is "safe lie". Those situation you can take optional relief and have a stroke added to your score, but there isn't free relief any time you feel your lie is "unsafe". Directly from the rulebook:

Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

So, in the bolded text, I consider them "safe" reasons to use casual relief. It may not explicitly SAY "safe lie", but you know where I am coming from. If a ravenous beaver is laying at your disc, you can take casual relief for fear of "safety's sake", without penalty.

 

[WhiteyBear]

So a TD could say that Ivy is eligible fo relief.

If you have a person who is severely allergic to ivy/bees (hopefully they say this PRIOR to starting a round), then casual relief can be given.

 

[mashnut]

So a TD could say that Ivy is eligible fo relief.

Yes, but it's not a blanket thing. Unless it's specifically pointed out in an event it's not eligible for free relief.

 

[TheOtherBill]

Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles,

So why didn' Catrina get relief from that SUV parked on the fairway at Tx States?

 

[mashnut]

Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

So, in the bolded text, I consider them "safe" reasons to use casual relief. It may not explicitly SAY "safe lie", but you know where I am coming from. If a ravenous beaver is laying at your disc, you can take casual relief for fear of "safety's sake", without penalty.

Ok, but you listed riverbanks and poison ivy, you can't generalize to things like that just because the rule is about safety.

If you have a person who is severely allergic to ivy/bees (hopefully they say this PRIOR to starting a round), then casual relief can be given.

It has to be announced by the TD, and it would apply to everyone. The optional relief rule is there if not. Part of the reason why it's not included as a blanket statement is that it's really easy to call anything remotely resembling the plant poison ivy if your card mates aren't confident in identifying it. It's much better if TDs specifically mark and announce particular patches rather than just giving relief from all ivy.

 

[oddjob]

Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles,

So why didn' Catrina get relief from that SUV parked on the fairway at Tx States?

it was in front of her lie.

 

[Tfire25]

So if you are allergic to poison ivy, it would be an optional relief resulting in a one throw penalty. If its a car, it would be casual relief with no penalty?

 

[TheOtherBill]

it was in front of her lie.

True but that's darn close to being ON her lie. A view looking directly down on the disc would tell for sure, I'd assume that's what the official hopefully did.

 

[bhadella]

Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles,

So why didn' Catrina get relief from that SUV parked on the fairway at Tx States?

The relief would have put her behind the SUV forcing her to throw over it.

 

[_MTL_]

The issue from Texas wasn't that she hit a car and had a tough decision in terms of stance / relief, it is that the staff poorly planned marking the course / allowing players to park in bounds.

 

[mashnut]

So if you are allergic to poison ivy, it would be an optional relief resulting in a one throw penalty. If its a car, it would be casual relief with no penalty?

Yup, unless the TD marks/announces it otherwise. I'm extremely reactive to urushiol, so I make sure I walk a course before a tournament (if I haven't played it before) and know what areas to avoid throwing into.

 

[OB Four]

I thought I would bring this thread back to life....since this thread is ultimately how it was discovered that Jeff Harrishabitat had two PDGA numbers.


I like to debate rules from time to time on here. It is fun to get into it with Chuck and the guys. So, Chuck and I get into a lively jousting match with Harrishabitat, who was being a total lawyer troll, on another thread. Apparently during the raucous joust, a chance glance with my lance dealt a fatal blow and the troll was mortally wounded. However, he did not die right away and attempted a not-so-valiant volley of insults before eventually begging for mercy from the gathering crowd.


I recognized he was calling me out in this thread OP, because I played all three rounds on Jeff's card at the Wintertime Open and I was involved in most of the calls made. I made a few posts here about it and then never thought about any of it again.


Fast forward a few months: Harrishabitat was giving me and Chuck crap for decisions we made as TD's on another thread. He was being very unreasonable with his black and white interpretation of the rules. And I am thinking, wait, you told me at Wintertime Open you were a TD. So I looked him up and he was not current, but he had a 60K PDGA number. So I am thinking, how can you have been a TD years ago and former official if your number is 60K? Then I remembered he also bragged to everyone in the group that he had played Wintertime Open several times before. So, I went to past results and the only Jeff Harris that played in the past had that other number.... so I posted the other PDGA number on my reply to Mr Lawyer Troll in the "How Many People is Too Many" thread here:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2417518&postcount=154


Within minutes, I got private messages from other users that discovered the 913 player rating, that 34207 used a harrishabitat@email and that 34207 was suspended. The only thing I did was look at past WO results and post the number. The in-depth sleuthing was done by others.

The worst part is he tried to deny that he had two numbers at first. Eventually he realized there was too much evidence against him and admitted it. Please note the first sentence of this OP even says he was back at WO after a two year hiatus. He also boasts in the OP that he has played for 7 years in 10 states (I just noticed that!!).

Funny thing is, if he would have just gone home after his victory at the Wintertime Open and NOT started this thread...in which I recognized I was talked about in the OP......he could still be carrying on a double PDGA life and getting into more unreasonable rules discussions on DGCR.

I wasn't trying to be personal. Again, I only mentioned it because I wondered why he was being so hard on ME as a TD, when he told me he was also a TD.

All hail the Troll Killer.

That other thread was gold. Anyone else have a huge crush on discette now?

 

[JC17393]

Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles,

So why didn' Catrina get relief from that SUV parked on the fairway at Tx States?

it was in front of her lie.

The relief would have put her behind the SUV forcing her to throw over it.

Yes, the SUV was in her stance so she could take relief. The relief would have taken her to the other side of the SUV where she would still have been trapped between the SUV and an OB line. She elected to not take relief. That's important. She chose not to take the relief, but it was absolutely without question available to her if she wanted it.

 

[TheOtherBill]

Yes, the SUV was in her stance so she could take relief. The relief would have taken her to the other side of the SUV where she would still have been trapped between the SUV and an OB line. She elected to not take relief. That's important. She chose not to take the relief, but it was absolutely without question available to her if she wanted it.

Awesome, that clears it up. Thx JC :thmbup:

 

[Tfire25]

So the pdga is more worried people getting next to a car, next to a bug/animal(that will move), or people getting their feet wet in casual water than falling into a river or getting a rash that sometimes involves dr visits?

I really think a rivers edge is sometimes the most dangerous part of a course. That needs to be looked at.

 

[Puckstopper]

That other thread was gold. Anyone else have a huge crush on discette now?

Kind of the opposite to be honest. The drama gets old.

 

[mashnut]

So the pdga is more worried people getting next to a car, next to a bug/animal(that will move), or people getting their feet wet in casual water than falling into a river or getting a rash that sometimes involves dr visits?

I really think a rivers edge is sometimes the most dangerous part of a course. That needs to be looked at.

No, the PDGA has decided that TDs have a much better idea of what's dangerous on their individual courses than a rule book that isn't specifically applicable to local situations. They've codified the things that are black and white and left the gray areas to TD discretion. Also, if those kinds of dangerous situations are present on a course and you're that uncomfortable with them, I would recommend playing somewhere else.

 

[Sir Puttsalot]

The issue from Texas wasn't that she hit a car and had a tough decision in terms of stance / relief, it is that the staff poorly planned marking the course / allowing players to park in bounds.

yea...was just gonna ask why parking lot isnt ob...or rather why is parking lot ib.

And thnx Ms Disc. I think I would have agreed. Backing into a lie seems to exceed my threshold of acceptable obstacle movement. It seemed some allowances were made by the cardmates. Not to mention 4/4 agreement is a pretty strong voting block.