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Proposed rule changes for 2024

BogeyNoMore said:
Maybe I misunderstood what Skamanda said?



If the verbiage tweak/rule change doesn't prevent what I described, I'm not sure I understand what it's accomplishing. 🫤
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In a revision a few years ago the text about Ams taking merch in a Pro division accidentally got dropped with a last minute edit. The text was restored in this version. The rules in this didn't actually change (the current interpretation was that the practice was implied to be allowed)
 
If an Am plays Pro, accepts merch, and then sells it - how is that different than an Am playing MA1, wining merch, then sells it because they have too many frisbees or bags or stools?

As a TD and shop owner, I like it when an Am plays Pro and accepts merch because that means I get to make a margin off the wholesale to retail. Which helps me to stay in business so that I can run more tournaments in the future.

Besides, when the Am plays up to Pro, that takes out a top player in MA1 so that the whole payout structure moves down one player.
 
BogeyNoMore said:
Maybe I didn't follow it correctly going back through Bill's response to the quoted section Skamanda's post...

Today, ams that play on open division can opt for merch instead of cash. As you point out, nothing stops them from selling that merch, which indirectly allows them to play for cash, while still retaining their amatuer status.

Skamanda's post says that inder the new rule, Ams that play as pros, but refuse the cash payout, wouldn't be permitted yo get merch in place of cash. Their cash would be passed down to someone else.

If enacted, this would prevent Ams effectively playing for cash while retaining Am status.

The distinction between Pro and Am is playing for cash. I may be short-sighted but , eliminating the ability to circumvent that seems like a good thing in that if you want to retain your Am status, you can't loophole around it to effectively play for cash.

That said, as with many things, there may be unintended consequences with such a rule.
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But again, Ams can "circumvent the rule" of getting cash by playing in Am1 (or any other Am division), taking the merch and selling it. It's not circumventing them from getting cash while maintaining Am status. We ALL sell our merch from time to time. Plus, see the response below.

Rob Martin said:
If an Am plays Pro, accepts merch, and then sells it - how is that different than an Am playing MA1, wining merch, then sells it because they have too many frisbees or bags or stools?

As a TD and shop owner, I like it when an Am plays Pro and accepts merch because that means I get to make a margin off the wholesale to retail. Which helps me to stay in business so that I can run more tournaments in the future.

Besides, when the Am plays up to Pro, that takes out a top player in MA1 so that the whole payout structure moves down one player.
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While I can agree that at TD shouldn't be FORCED into having merch on hand in case an Am "cashes" and wants to opt for merch instead (they may not have enough stock), it doesn't seem to make sense to NOT ALLOW the TD to do so if he/she so desires. It actually works in the TDs favor to pay in merch because they'll get to keep the difference via markup. (versus passing the cash down to the next person in line where the TD wouldn't get that advantage.) And this is not getting into the issues of areas where there all divisions can't be offered at an event. The only two or three FA1's or MA50's signed up, playing up in pro in order to have a decent sized division, then placing ITM are being told, "oops, sorry nice playing, but no tangible reward," if it is an A-tier.
 
I just don't understand why an am would want to retain am status if they can cash in open. Selling stuff sucks. Selling disc golf stuff sucks even more. It's like winning with extra steps for no reason.
 
Sewer bill said:
I just don't understand why an am would want to retain am status if they can cash in open. Selling stuff sucks. Selling disc golf stuff sucks even more. It's like winning with extra steps for no reason.
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This scenario happens in smaller protected pro divisions: Amateurs will play up in a pro division so that the there is a division for the pro. It might be a division of one "real" pro and multiple amateurs. They wanted to play with the particular pro or the pro offered to subsidize the Am's entry fee to get a larger field for themselves. So rather than getting nothing for second, they can still be competing for something and keep playing as an amateur where they really belong.
 
Skamanda said:
www.pdga.com

PDGA Members: Preview Proposed Rule Changes for 2024

Public comment closes on August 15th, 2023 for rule, competition revisions The Official Rules of Disc Golf (ORDG), the Competition Manual for Disc Golf Events (CM), and the PDGA Tour Standards go through some level of revision each year. A critical part of this process is making proposed changes...
www.pdga.com www.pdga.com

Not a lot of interesting things going on. A lot of clarifications on poor wording, but a few interesting additions...

D-tiers will now be the new C-tiers, and C-tiers will require all players to be registered PDGA members. D-tiers also may have some wiggle room for rules changes? Not the clearest wording there, but I can see ways it could be used for good, and ways it could be used for bad...

At any rate, since D-tiers are one-round, one-day events, that seems like a change that's going to drive people away from playing, rather than earn more sign ups for the PDGA. Anyone who wouldn't usually play more an one or two sanctioned events in a year, now has to pay an extra $50 to the PDGA, or not play at all. At least a few people I've spoken to are just going to forego playing anything sanctioned because of it, and at least one club I've spoken to reps from is going to have to reconsider what has historically been their C-tier, because of how many players they get that play no more than one sanctioned event, and won't double their entry fee just to play the tournament they've been playing in for years...

A-tiers will be required to field FA1 and/or FPO. This is likely in response to the TDs that dropped FPO, to keep from having to deal with Natalie Ryan or other trans players showing up. It makes sense, to me, but I can see it rubbing some people the wrong way, in some states...

The one that kinda bugs me the most is that Am-classified players who cash in Pro divisions, who turn down their winnings, will no longer be allowed to get merch credit. This one seems a bit senseless, to what I know from my personal experience. I'd love to discuss this one further. I do like that, in that case, the winnings are passed down to the next players in line (rather than just forfeit entirely), but I struggle to think of a problem this rule change is solving.

In my own experience, I've still got 2 am-only events left this season, before I switch to FPO full-time. DGLO (which prior to the creation of the United Series, I wouldn't have been allowed to register for in FPO - and even after that, I still won't ever be able to play, unless I decide to join the tour, due to it being invite only for FPO/MPO), and Michigan Amateur State Championships, which I earned a berth for at an earlier tournament. Because these are both events I have an interest in playing, and can not play in them as a Pro (because my rating is above the threshold for Pros playing Am), this is essentially telling me that if I win any of my events and turn down cash, because I need to keep that Am classification, I am forfeiting anything but a trophy. That just seems like a pointless change.

Does anyone know what might have inspired that rule change? It seems needlessly punitive, with no noteworthy cause...
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I thought D-tier events were gone for good after 2006 rules changes?
 
Skamanda said:
.....

The one that kinda bugs me the most is that Am-classified players who cash in Pro divisions, who turn down their winnings, will no longer be allowed to get merch credit. This one seems a bit senseless, to what I know from my personal experience. I'd love to discuss this one further. I do like that, in that case, the winnings are passed down to the next players in line (rather than just forfeit entirely), but I struggle to think of a problem this rule change is solving.

In my own experience, I've still got 2 am-only events left this season, before I switch to FPO full-time. DGLO (which prior to the creation of the United Series, I wouldn't have been allowed to register for in FPO - and even after that, I still won't ever be able to play, unless I decide to join the tour, due to it being invite only for FPO/MPO), and Michigan Amateur State Championships, which I earned a berth for at an earlier tournament. Because these are both events I have an interest in playing, and can not play in them as a Pro (because my rating is above the threshold for Pros playing Am), this is essentially telling me that if I win any of my events and turn down cash, because I need to keep that Am classification, I am forfeiting anything but a trophy. That just seems like a pointless change.

Does anyone know what might have inspired that rule change? It seems needlessly punitive, with no noteworthy cause...
Click to expand...

I probably did some of that damage. It goes back a few years. PM me if you want the *whole* story. TL; dR for a post...
 
krupicka said:
One round event where people show up at random times during the day, form a group (often with people they know), and then play a sanctioned round.
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Sounds like a League Night being run as a PDGA tournament. I have heard of this being done in League events using C tier and just claiming people were in right category playing with those people in the one round C tier option.
 
Casey 1988 said:
Sounds like a League Night being run as a PDGA tournament. I have heard of this being done in League events using C tier and just claiming people were in right category playing with those people in the one round C tier option.
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That's about right. They are very popular. I see local Flex events with 125+ players happen regularly. Last year there was one run in the Chicago area on NYE and another on NYD on the same course. 200+ players each day.
 
krupicka said:
That's about right. They are very popular. I see local Flex events with 125+ players happen regularly. Last year there was one run in the Chicago area on NYE and another on NYD on the same course. 200+ players each day.
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Yep, and One in Minneapolis/St Paul I heard about trying to be largest PDGA sanctioned tournament in USA in terms of players on final old cone hole course in USA were hiding baskets were all cone hole until day of and fixed up, one had got stolen yet again and some defaced this time by protesters on ruling of Police in Floyd killing.
 
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