WORLD FIASCO

[DavidSauls]

How many male divisions do they have world championships for?

Way too many, of course.

Leaving out the silly names, for Pros it's Open, > 40, > 50, > 60, > 70, > 75 (I think).

Duplicate that for the Ams, and add in 4 junior age backets.

Or something like that.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Worlds should be about quality, not quantity. Only the best players in the world should be playing for the world championship. Allowing anyone entry, changes it from a world championship event into a so-called, world championship event.

Jamaican bobsled team always defeats that argument.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

you guys mad about MJ on the waitlist forgetting that DC made him sell his comets first?!

lollllllll @discgolfproblems

 

[DavidSauls]

Loomis, you speak of the sport GROWING as meaning we need to let everyone play in the world championships.

I see the sport GROWING and it has led to a more elite World Championships where it should be hard to earn a spot in. (sports in their infancy allow everyone to participate, not so with mature sports. I bet there were quite a few countries who would have liked to be at the world cup this year.)

DG Example: Just 4 years ago any college in the nation could sign up for the Collegiate National Championships if they timed it right. But it has quickly grown to the point where now we need regional qualifiers just to earn one of the 50+ team spots. And it's not an easy task anymore. Ultimately, this brings more validity and weight to a National Title.

One question is whether the presence of all these other players diminishes the accomplishment of the champions, in any way.

The people winning and contending for World Champions, would be there under almost any system.

 

[Loomis]

Good morning. I can see that I missed out on quite a bit by sleeping and playing a round of disc golf.

Someone asked if I worked for DiscGolfer and if the PDGA paid me, etc. I submit material to DiscGolfer and they pay me for it. I am not an employee of the magazine or the PDGA. Does the PDGA monitor this board? Not that I can tell. Chuck and Suzette are the only two people with PDGA affiliations that I have ever seen comment on this board. Granted, I don't spend a lot of time on here and with everyone using screen names I can't be sure who's who so there might be more PDGA involvement. Also. It's important to note that the board members are unpaid volunteers in that they asked to be on the board and were not forced to. They know they are not going to be paid and yet they do it anyway.

Someone asked me if I was running for a position on the board: No. When they start paying the board members, I'll run.

This is Worlds. It should be open to anyone who wants to play. It's not a showcase (FYI: that's what the final nines are supposed to be for) of the best players, it's a chance for every competitive player to compete for the title of "Best in the World." AND, traditionally, the best player in the world DOES NOT WIN the event. The highest rated player rarely wins the World title. That's why it's open to anyone and not just the best players. And if you pay your full PDGA dues then you deserve equal consideration. So if the PDGA is only going to offer 8 spots to Masters Women then perhaps they shouldn't have to pay full PDGA fees.

Worlds is a marathon of disc golf and historically it hasn't been that entertaining to anyone outside of the competing players. Disc golf has yet to breach the "sports entertainment" threshold so let's not pretend that "only the best should be allowed to play because it makes us look good."

 

[Shipley]

Jamaican bobsled team always defeats that argument.

True that.. :doh:

 

[lbond]

One question is whether the presence of all these other players diminishes the accomplishment of the champions, in any way.

The people winning and contending for World Champions, would be there under almost any system.

Yes it does diminish it slightly but I think only to non-avid disc golfers. We all know that the top guys should all be there regardless, but I have had multiple friends be very shocked and impressed that there even are World Championships for disc golf, and then immediately after have that, "aaahhh, ok...makes sense now" look on their face when they find out that it is so open.

But if we want growth those are the guys that we should want to be impressed and intrigued by the sport.

 

[lbond]

This is Worlds. It should be open to anyone who wants to play. It's not a showcase (FYI: that's what the final nines are supposed to be for) of the best players, it's a chance for every competitive player to compete for the title of "Best in the World." AND, traditionally, the best player in the world DOES NOT WIN the event. The highest rated player rarely wins the World title. That's why it's open to anyone and not just the best players. And if you pay your full PDGA dues then you deserve equal consideration.

I HAVE to point out that this argument is bad. This isn't Tin Cup we're talking about. This is real life. The only way ol' Tony No-Name from nowhere with a 950 rating is winning Worlds is if he is in a division of 8 people. Which is what you were all mad about in the first place.

Nobody like that is winning over anyone in the top 10. Or even 50 or 100 probably.

 

[scarpfish]

You all remember it wasn't all that long ago we wouldn't even being having this discussion because Worlds (both Pro and Am) weren't even filling up. Then the PDGA lowered the points criteria. Noboby cared about how much space those 8 player age restricted divisions were alloted back then.

 

[Moonshine]

Someone asked me if I was running for a position on the board: No. When they start paying the board members, I'll run.

I've yet to see a non-profit where the board members are paid, so good luck with that.

you guys mad about MJ on the waitlist forgetting that DC made him sell his comets first?!

^Truth! How the hell do they not get him in the tournament when he almost won the damn thing a few years ago? They couldn't afford to front him some cash while he sold his Comets? It would be laughable if it weren't so dumb.

 

[Guurn]

You could probably say the same about Joe local pro 985 rated. At some point we would be just drawing a line and saying no more. What it sounds like some people think this should be is an invite only for players over 1000.

 

[ru4por]

"Growing the sport"... I don't really think there is any concensus on how this is done. It certainly will not be accomplished by catering to a tiny faction of elite tournament players. Not everybody can play, there is a qualification system. The fact that is now sell out quickly is proof the sport is "growing". Again, elimination of age protection to "grow" the sport? There is not outrage here, just logistics. Around my neck of the woods, nearly every tournament (tier A, B, C and unsanctioned sells out). If you want to play, sign up early. Any ambassador/steward of our game would embrace the inclusion of all type players. For what it is worth the viewership angle is moot.

 

[Loomis]

This is Worlds. It should be open to anyone who wants to play. It's not a showcase (FYI: that's what the final nines are supposed to be for) of the best players, it's a chance for every competitive player to compete for the title of "Best in the World." AND, traditionally, the best player in the world DOES NOT WIN the event. The highest rated player rarely wins the World title. That's why it's open to anyone and not just the best players. And if you pay your full PDGA dues then you deserve equal consideration.

I HAVE to point out that this argument is bad. This isn't Tin Cup we're talking about. This is real life. The only way ol' Tony No-Name from nowhere with a 950 rating is winning Worlds is if he is in a division of 8 people. Which is what you were all mad about in the first place.

Nobody like that is winning over anyone in the top 10. Or even 50 or 100 probably.

- McBeth wasnt a top ten player in the world when he won in 2012.

- None of the top Masters Women players are playing in this year's event. Including last year's winner, Barrett White, who is very active on the tour and like MJ didn't make the cut because of the limit.

- So called "Tom Nobody" Drew Gibson almost won the Memorial this year over a full field of super talented players.

- A few years back the NT Beaver State Fling was won by a local "Tom Nobody" who played strong and was able to beat the best players in the world.

This year the Minnesota Majestic was won by a much lower rated so-called "Tom Nobody" who beat the much more talented Wysocki and Levieska.

So it is possible for a "Tom Nobody" to come from nowhere and win.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

This is Worlds. It should be open to anyone who wants to play. It's not a showcase (FYI: that's what the final nines are supposed to be for) of the best players, it's a chance for every competitive player to compete for the title of "Best in the World." AND, traditionally, the best player in the world DOES NOT WIN the event. The highest rated player rarely wins the World title. That's why it's open to anyone and not just the best players. And if you pay your full PDGA dues then you deserve equal consideration.

I HAVE to point out that this argument is bad. This isn't Tin Cup we're talking about. This is real life. The only way ol' Tony No-Name from nowhere with a 950 rating is winning Worlds is if he is in a division of 8 people. Which is what you were all mad about in the first place.

Nobody like that is winning over anyone in the top 10. Or even 50 or 100 probably.

- McBeth wasnt a top ten player in the world when he won in 2012.

- None of the top Masters Women players are playing in this year's event. Including last year's winner, Barrett White, who is very active on the tour and like MJ didn't make the cut because of the limit.

- So called "Tom Nobody" Drew Gibson almost won the Memorial this year over a full field of super talented players.

- A few years back the NT Beaver State Fling was won by a local "Tom Nobody" who played strong and was able to beat the best players in the world.

This year the Minnesota Majestic was won by a much lower rated so-called "Tom Nobody" who beat the much more talented Wysocki and Levieska.

So it is possible for a "Tom Nobody" to come from nowhere and win.

These aren't Tom Nobody's, these are people who are/were either high ams or on the outskirts of top level play. If you put 100 people rated 900 in a world competition against Mcbeth alone, none of them would even come close to beating him.

 

[Loomis]

I've yet to see a non-profit where the board members are paid, so good luck with that.

There are paid employees working for the PDGA. Paid very well, I might point out. And the organization has money.

 

[bwgort]

- McBeth wasnt a top ten player in the world when he won in 2012.

- None of the top Masters Women players are playing in this year's event. Including last year's winner, Barrett White, who is very active on the tour and like MJ didn't make the cut because of the limit.

- So called "Tom Nobody" Drew Gibson almost won the Memorial this year over a full field of super talented players.

- A few years back the NT Beaver State Fling was won by a local "Tom Nobody" who played strong and was able to beat the best players in the world.

This year the Minnesota Majestic was won by a much lower rated so-called "Tom Nobody" who beat the much more talented Wysocki and Levieska.

So it is possible for a "Tom Nobody" to come from nowhere and win.

Every "tom nobody" male you just mentioned is 1000 rated.

 

[DSmith]

So, Loomis, when you contacted the PDGA and let them know how you feel about the situation, what did they say?

 

[Loomis]

Every "tom nobody" male you just mentioned is 1000 rated.

Yes they are. But with almost 140 "1000 rated" players in the world, they don't even rank in the top 75. So given their achievement over much higher rated 1000 rated players who have more talent, experience, etc. it makes their achievement that much more impressive.
1013 Alex beat 1047 rated Wysocki. Isn't that impressive? 34 rating points?

I'm not a fan of the rating system but as it is the only measure we use in our game at the moment, it makes the "tom nobody's" achievements pretty noteworthy. But it shows that anyone can win and not just the highest rated player in the field with the most experience and talent.

How did Wysocki beat McBeth in Japan but then lose to him two weeks later in KC?

How did Catrina beat Paige in KC one year and then lose so horribly to her the next?

The point I'm trying to make is that you never know who is going to win and you can't just open the field for favorites.

 

[scarpfish]

There are paid employees working for the PDGA. Paid very well, I might point out. And the organization has money.

I say you can make wild accusations about the PDGA financials, or you can provide a link to the evidence.

 

[bwgort]

Yes they are. But with almost 140 "1000 rated" players in the world, they don't even rank in the top 75. So given their achievement over much higher rated 1000 rated players who have more talent, experience, etc. it makes their achievement that much more impressive.
1013 Alex beat 1047 rated Wysocki. Isn't that impressive? 34 rating points?

I'm not a fan of the rating system but as it is the only measure we use in our game at the moment, it makes the "tom nobody's" achievements pretty noteworthy. But it shows that anyone can win and not just the highest rated player in the field with the most experience and talent.

How did Wysocki beat McBeth in Japan but then lose to him two weeks later in KC?

How did Catrina beat Paige in KC one year and then lose so horribly to her the next?

The point I'm trying to make is that you never know who is going to win and you can't just open the field for favorites.

No one opened the field for just favorites, there was a window to register which was told to every qualified player, it's not the PDGAs fault that some people chose not to register.

Are you volunteering to run a worlds that has no cap on players? If so, I'll sign up right now. Sounds like fun! Can't wait!