New Foot Fault Rule?

[Disc Golf Live]

This is another area of the rules where having a visual standard established for new players and officials to view would be helpful. Legals stances are another area that needs standardization. I've suggested creating such a video/image archive to the PDGA before but never got a response.

 

[booter]

I can't see the vid for some reason. Can somebody fill me in on what the new rule is?

 

[booter]

nvr mnd. I can see the vid now

 

[VictorB]

Victor, there's no rule change. Feldberg was just illustrating how the rule should be followed.

As Feldberg points out, "jump putts" have never been allowed but "putt jumps" have been, meaning that the player must release the disc before jumping or stepping forward for lies beyond 10m. Inside 10m you have to place your non-plant foot on the ground with proper balance before moving forward after releasing the putt if it wasn't already on the ground (like a straddle putt). Where and when your disc has landed during a putt has no bearing on making legal movements, unlike some who think you can't move forward until the disc stops moving.

Most helpful Chuck, thanks for clearing that up. I was about to be really irritated if I couldn't jump putt (or "putt -> jump" for a more accurate term) anymore

 

[mashnut]

This is another area of the rules where having a visual standard established for new players and officials to view would be helpful. Legals stances are another area that needs standardization. I've suggested creating such a video/image archive to the PDGA before but never got a response.

I think that's a really good idea. The one concern I have is that the people who would really need to be looking at something like that (new players) aren't the ones hanging out on the rules section of the PDGA site. It would be nice though to have good visual references when rules questions come up though.

 

[mattdabbs]

One thing Climo seems to do is lift his back leg off the ground on short putts. See the 12 second spot on this clip.


Would this be legal according to the summary statement given by Cgjdisc - "Inside 10m you have to place your non-plant foot on the ground with proper balance before moving forward after releasing the putt"?

 

[cblack129]

One thing Climo seems to do is lift his back leg off the ground on short putts. See the 12 second spot on this clip.


Would this be legal according to the summary statement given by Cgjdisc - "Inside 10m you have to place your non-plant foot on the ground with proper balance before moving forward after releasing the putt"?

yeah that's legal, as long as the non plant foot comes down behind the marker before moving toward the basket. Some putts in that video he does that and some he doesn't, but that rule wasn't as strictly enforced when that video was taken. Like Feldberg said, it's not a new rule, just more strictly enforced now.

 

[DSmith]

I expect the Pros to know this already and enforce it on each other during play but I'm not going to expect it from the Ams.
Personally I never found any advantage to releasing the disc after my feet leave the ground anyhow. You get most of your momentum before your feet leave the ground. Now if someone is being painfully obvious in foot faulting then the card or someone on the card needs to call the guy out.
Of course, as knowledgeable players of the sport of disc golf and its rules, it's our responsibility to show newer or less knowledgeable players what the actual ruling is before the said player plays in a PDGA sanctioned tournament.

Remember the phrase "Watch your feet" It works a lot better that saying "Hey you just foot faulted!" and it serves as a warning before the fault is made.



Also can someone make a gif of Dave getting hit in the head by his own black putter at the end of the series? :doh:

 

[tallpaul]

This whole thing is going to provide a new; wonderfully fun realm for those who would use rule's infraction calls to get into other player's heads.

 

[scarpfish]

The moral to this story is all about the following, whether you're inside OR outside of 10m.

PDGA rule 803.04

A. When the disc is released, a player must:

(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in
803.04 E);

The key here is that a supporting point must be in contact with the playing surface, on the line of play, 30 cm behind the marker, at the moment of release. Whether its your plant foot, your non-plant foot, your hands, your head, doesn't matter. If you are airborne at the time of release, even just a couple of inches, that's a no-no.

The distinction between inside 10 meters and outside 10 meters comes down to this.

Outside - You can step past the lie as long as the disc is out of your hands by the time you do.
Inside - You cannot step past the lie until the disc comes to a rest.

Something that would help new players is stop referring to jump putts as jump putts, as they involve more of a run through than a jump, and emphasize the part about their foot being in contact with the surface.

 

[cblack129]

The moral to this story is all about this inside OR outside of 10m.

PDGA rule 803.04

A. When the disc is released, a player must:

(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in
803.04 E);

The key here is that a supporting point must be in contact with the playing surface, on the line of play, 30 cm behind the marker, at the moment of release. Whether its your plant foot, your non-plant foot, your hands, your head, doesn't matter. If you are airborne at the time of release, even just a couple of inches, that's a no-no.

The distinction between inside 10 meters and outside 10 meters comes down to this.

Outside - You can step past the lie as long as the disc is out of your hands by the time you do.
Inside - You cannot step past the lie until the disc comes to a rest.

Something that would help new players is stop referring to jump putts as jump putts, as they involve more of a run through than a jump, and emphasize the part about their foot being in contact with the surface.

Inside 10 m, you can't step past the lie until both feet touch the ground behind your mark. That's the part they're trying to more strictly enforce.

 

[atl scott]

Victor, there's no rule change...

Inside 10m you have to place your non-plant foot on the ground with proper balance before moving forward after releasing the putt if it wasn't already on the ground (like a straddle putt).

This sounds like a rules change to me. This has never been enforced to my knowledge before except at last year's USDGC. The current rule calls for balance, not two feet on the ground. :thmbdown:

 

[CwAlbino]

I cannot watch it, is there a rule change or not?

 

[mattdabbs]

Also can someone make a gif of Dave getting hit in the head by his own black putter at the end of the series? :doh:

Like this?

Avatar size (80X80):
http://mattdabbs.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/feldbergouch.jpg

Large:
http://mattdabbs.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/feldbergouch2.jpg

 

[atl scott]

Ok, after re-reading the rule I see what is being changed is the enforcement of the actual rule not the rule itself. The rule is somewhat unclear because it mentions balance before moving forward but it does also implicitly require not "stepping past the marker disc within 10 meters" in part B of 803.04.

B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when
putting within 10 meters.

see www.pdga.com/rules/80304-stance-subsequent-to-teeing-off

I guess it makes sense but it's gonna take more than Feldberg putting a video on YouTube to get the word out so everyone is enforcing the rules the same way. Putting styles aren't always easy to change and I can see plenty of people getting upset on the course when they are told they have to putt differently the rest of the round.

 

[cblack129]

Ok, after re-reading the rule I see what is being changed is the enforcement of the actual rule. The rule is somewhat unclear because it mentions balance before moving forward but it does implicitly require not "stepping past the marker disc within 10 meters" in part B of 803.04.

B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when
putting within 10 meters.

see www.pdga.com/rules/80304-stance-subsequent-to-teeing-off

I guess it makes sense but it's gonna take more than Feldberg putting a video on YouTube to get the word out so everyone is enforcing the rules the same way. Putting styles aren't always easy to change and I can see plenty of people getting upset on the course when they are told they have to putt differently the rest of the round.

I'm sure they'll announce in player meetings before the tourneys

 

[Cgkdisc]

Inside - You cannot step past the lie until the disc comes to a rest.

Not correct. The rule says nothing about whether the disc is moving or not when you move forward, just that both feet have balanced on the ground first before moving forward. You technically cannot do a drop-in putt where you only have your stance foot on the ground, tip forward to release the disc into the basket, pick it up out of the basket (while still balancing on your stance foot) and then finally put your other foot down behind the marker. The other foot has to come down before touching the disc in the basket to remove it.

 

[tallpaul]

2010 will be the year of lots of back foot stomping on the ground; and "IS THAT FRICKIN' GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.?" Replied with (to another member of group) "I still think he's not exhibiting balance, should we stroke him?"

 

[atl scott]

I'm sure they'll announce in player meetings before the tourneys

You're only so sure because you have only been playing for 0.7 years. Also, a major enforcement change like this should be given plenty of notice to allow people to get used to the new style. I don't like how Dave insists that you shouldn't jump putt. I know you shouldn't jump before you putt but that doesn't mean it can't be done correctly.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Replied with (to another member of group) "I still think he's not exhibiting balance, should we stroke him?"

Well, I'd say he's physically balanced, but mentally... hmmm I'm not so sure...