I've played the course a few times as an am, and I think the course is not soft at all on the am side, but seeing how the pros are routinely shooting 13-18 down, perhaps the course could use some adjustment moving forward. Hole 18 (well..DGPT 18 over the water) should be a par 3 for sure. Maybe I'm wrong but I think harder par 3s compared to easier eagles would be better on the pro side.
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18 Down @ Waco: Soft?
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
I've played the course a few times as an am, and I think the course is not soft at all on the am side, but seeing how the pros are routinely shooting 13-18 down, perhaps the course could use some adjustment moving forward. Hole 18 (well..DGPT 18 over the water) should be a par 3 for sure. Maybe I'm wrong but I think harder par 3s compared to easier eagles would be better on the pro side.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
I think 18 would be fine as a par4... if they added the triple mando DGPT wall to the tee. Forcing the players to shape a shot over that water, instead of just being able to chuck a big hyzer, would bring more risk into the equation and would probably make some players layup... otherwise, I agree it should just be a good risk reward par3.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Full scale doglegs like 17 (where players can't cheat the dog) are one of the few ways you can level the challenge to test skill among our top level players to where additional distance isn't a distinct advantage.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,838
The pars are accurate for 950 rated players.
The course actually does a pretty good job of testing the skills of 970+ rated players.
All the course really needs is to use pars for 1000-rated players.
How many courses in the world is really made for the few +1000 rated players..and how fun would a course like that be to the average golfer?
Cant really build a course for play a few days a year by the top pros, well you CAN but how would pay for it
Cant really build a course for play a few days a year by the top pros, well you CAN but how would pay for it
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Idlewild was designed to test the top players when the Teebird was the top end driver. It still isn't much "fun" for them with today's tech... but that all depends on your definition of fun. Some people find the idea of being challenged on pretty much every single shot of a round fun...
Well take that hole 17 at Waco, i like to see the best players play holes like that. . . But would i like to play a hole like that at my level? try it,,yes.. but play it every week, no. .i would loose to many discs . .and spend to much time trying to find them in the woods
Dumb question. .how much have the average distance the top pros throws changed over the last 10-20years . .
. .and spend to much time trying to find them in the woodsDumb question. .how much have the average distance the top pros throws changed over the last 10-20years . .
I don't think it needs the mando. Make the green an island. You can lay up on the tee side of the hole like we saw a lot of players do, or go for the green but you have to land inside circle 2 to be in-bounds, maybe even less than circle 2 (like 40-45 feet from the basket). Something like this...
Make it a greater risk to even attempt to get there for the eagle. And put a drop zone about 65-75 away for any OB shots so just hitting and rolling back into water doesn't leave you a 40ish footer for birdie.
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tomdizzlefizzle
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2009
- Messages
- 558
I don't care much about what par should be on holes. I see the problem in the designs of multishot holes itself. Too often on these style holes a well executed drive leaves you with an easy pitch to get a birdie. Waco has some good multishot holes but all of the park style ones at Waco are too easy for these guys. Hole 15 and 16 are excellent examples. Basically 2 easy pitches to get your birdie. A 3 doesn't feel earned and a 4 feels like a loss. Chuck needs to design some more highbridge gold courses maybe?
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
I'll need to think about tweaking some of the Highbridge Gold holes if I get the chance or need to do so for a future NT or DGPT there due to advancements in player skill since 2007. Most holes probably still hold up for gold level players up to 1025, especially with the foliage growth that may not have been tamed in the past 12 years. But now we have to try and challenge many more super gold (black level) players above 1025 rating on more open holes.
tomdizzlefizzle
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2009
- Messages
- 558
What comes after black?
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
I think they enter a black hole where they suck the ratings points from anyone they play against.
tomdizzlefizzle
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2009
- Messages
- 558
Makes me think about how many tournaments do and don't tweak course design year after year. I fear change.
Perhaps they could just upgrade the tee signs with am par/pro par.
georgesummers
Bogey Member
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2011
- Messages
- 88
Yeah there are a lot of par 4s on disc golf where you either birdie it with your drive or your approach, and the other doesn't matter very much. The best par 4s challenge both shots and you need to execute both to get a putt
wolfmandragon
* Ace Member *
Unless one's name is Simon.
teemkey
* Ace Member *
MOAR WALL!!!
I think Simon tried to go over everything on that hole 17 at Waco one year. . but i dont think he ever made it
If i look at those four last Par4 at Waco, i´m a 900 rated 47y noodlearm.
Hole 15: i would play this safe, throw a mid/putter 200+200+158feet. .putt par . .but i could go for a birdy
For me thats a "easy" par but a hard birdy
Hole 16: i can see myself making a birdy here, not to much danger of the tee. . i will make mostly pars but a few birdies now and then
Hole 17: i dont think i will ever birdy that hole, even pars would be rare. . most likely a 5 IF i can stay IB
Hole 18: i think i can make a Birdy here, not everytime but quite often, if i play the hole like most FPO players did a birdy looks possible
I think that hole 18 is good for MPO and to hard for FPO IF it were a par 3 . . that hole would be perfect if 50% of the field went for it and 50% played safe.
For that to happen it would probably have to be 50-100feet shorter to cross water for FPO and 50-100feet longer for MPO
Hole 15: i would play this safe, throw a mid/putter 200+200+158feet. .putt par . .but i could go for a birdy
For me thats a "easy" par but a hard birdy
Hole 16: i can see myself making a birdy here, not to much danger of the tee. . i will make mostly pars but a few birdies now and then
Hole 17: i dont think i will ever birdy that hole, even pars would be rare. . most likely a 5 IF i can stay IB
Hole 18: i think i can make a Birdy here, not everytime but quite often, if i play the hole like most FPO players did a birdy looks possible
I think that hole 18 is good for MPO and to hard for FPO IF it were a par 3 . . that hole would be perfect if 50% of the field went for it and 50% played safe.
For that to happen it would probably have to be 50-100feet shorter to cross water for FPO and 50-100feet longer for MPO
