2 meter rule application

[mashnut]

yup, i totally agree; luckily my local courses don't really have any of that i was pretty happy as a TD when they made it a discretionary rule.

Absolutely, I like that TDs have the option to apply it the way that it best promotes competition. Now we just need to educate TDs on how to do that.

 

[Thumber]

Absolutely, I like that TDs have the option to apply it the way that it best promotes competition. Now we just need to educate TDs on how to do that.

A good first step would be TDs actually understanding the rules surrounding the application, then we can move onto when it is best applied

 

[dusty5150]

Absolutely, I like that TDs have the option to apply it the way that it best promotes competition. Now we just need to educate TDs on how to do that.

:hfive:

 

[DG_player]

@BradHarris & @BogeyNoMore

Just out of curiosity, if you were a TD how would you have ruled on the example I gave where it fell from the top of the basket into the basket?

Keep in mind, I did not perceive any wind to influence it. However it did sit on top of the basket for a good 5 seconds before it finally dropped in.

 

[Thumber]

@BradHarris & @BogeyNoMore

Just out of curiosity, if you were a TD how would you have ruled on the example I gave where it fell from the top of the basket into the basket?

Keep in mind, I did not perceive any wind to influence it. However it did sit on top of the basket for a good 5 seconds before it finally dropped in.

Not in

 

[mashnut]

@BradHarris & @BogeyNoMore

Just out of curiosity, if you were a TD how would you have ruled on the example I gave where it fell from the top of the basket into the basket?

Keep in mind, I did not perceive any wind to influence it. However it did sit on top of the basket for a good 5 seconds before it finally dropped in.

That would be a really tough call for the TD, that one is more up to the group since they actually saw it. Did it completely stop moving, then a gust of wind suddenly knocked it in, or was it teetering on the edge for those 5 seconds never really coming to rest?

 

[JTacoma03]

1. The 2M rule should always be in effect...but that's another argument entirely

2. In the Bradharris vs DG_Player I've got to side with DG on this one. I think eliminating judgement calls (a la USGA) would be in the best interest of the sport. As we've seen by this thread alone, a microcosm of the argument, the definition of "at rest" and what forces are acting upon a disc are too precarious to be decided upon by competing players during a round. This rule as it is written has far too much grey area.

 

[mashnut]

1. The 2M rule should always be in effect...but that's another argument entirely

For every person who believes that, there's someone who believes it should never be in effect. I have yet to hear a single good argument against having it be an optional rule so it can be used where appropriate (or where it's expected by the local dg population).

 

[tallpaul]

Stupid rule. Where your disc sits when you arrive to it, is where it should be played. Wind and such are part of the game. I honestly can't believe the proper ruling has anything to do with momentum for pete's sake. (I get that the ruling is probably in the book regarding water; and that makes sense.)

 

[mashnut]

Stupid rule. Where your disc sits when you arrive to it, is where it should be played. Wind and such are part of the game. I honestly can't believe the proper ruling has anything to do with momentum for pete's sake. (I get that the ruling is probably in the book regarding water; and that makes sense.)

I liked the old wording better, where the disc wasn't at rest when it was up in a tree, takes all of that argument out of it. If it's still in the tree when you get there, 2m penalty. If it falls, then it must not have really been at rest so you throw from where it is on the ground with no penalty.

 

[keith johnson]

The collective groan was audible when 2m rule in effect was announced at the tournament

The favorite part of my players meetings!!!
I remind them if they don't like it (and I've done it for the 18 years I've been running Events in 3 different states) they are welcome not to play in them and that until the PDGA gives me no choice, it will always be in place - or I'll just run unsanctioned Events. :clap:

 

[BogeyNoMore]

@BradHarris & @BogeyNoMore

Just out of curiosity, if you were a TD how would you have ruled on the example I gave where it fell from the top of the basket into the basket?

Keep in mind, I did not perceive any wind to influence it. However it did sit on top of the basket for a good 5 seconds before it finally dropped in.

If it were brought to my attention as the TD, I'd ask the card if, "In your opinion, did the disc:
a) come to a complete rest atop the basket, or...
b) did the disc move from the atop of the basket as a result of it's own momentum?
Assuming I didn't get to see the hole play out for myself, I'd have to go with what the majority of the card based on their answer, A or B.

These possibilities are mutually exclusive.

 

[teemkey]

806.01 Two-meter Rule

A. If a disc has come to rest above two meters, as measured from the lowest point of the disc to the playing surface directly below it, the player shall be assessed a one-throw penalty. The player shall then proceed in accordance with 802.02.C.

As I read the rule, technically there must be a measurement to ascertain that the disc is above two meters. Since the disc dropped to the ground before the measurement could be taken, no penalty was applied.

In the general case, the group will look at the disc's position in the tree and agree it's above two meters, then agree the penalty should be applied. But there's always a walk to the tree before the decision is made.

At least that's my guess at the TD's thought process.

 

[pmatt1969]

The guy should have been stroked, and the other guys on the card should know this rule. I can understand the thrower trying to get away with one. Make sure you carry your rulebook with you.

 

[br2526]

@BradHarris & @BogeyNoMore

Just out of curiosity, if you were a TD how would you have ruled on the example I gave where it fell from the top of the basket into the basket?

Keep in mind, I did not perceive any wind to influence it. However it did sit on top of the basket for a good 5 seconds before it finally dropped in.

It would have been a foot fault even if it were counted as in.

I think you said you picked up your marker and was heading to the basket when it went in

 

[krupicka]

It would have been a foot fault even if it were counted as in.

I think you said you picked up your marker and was heading to the basket when it went in

Huh? By what rule. Foot faults are not based on the motion or lack thereof of the disc, but if one has not demonstrated balance before going past one's lie.

 

[bradharris]

@BradHarris & @BogeyNoMore

Just out of curiosity, if you were a TD how would you have ruled on the example I gave where it fell from the top of the basket into the basket?

Keep in mind, I did not perceive any wind to influence it. However it did sit on top of the basket for a good 5 seconds before it finally dropped in.

It's really hard to say without actually seeing it. If it was teetering on the edge and eventually dropped in, I'd have to give it to you.

To clarify, it didn't fall through the top of the basket correct? It fell off the edge of the top support and into the basket? If it fell through the top it is, by rule, not in.

As I read the rule, technically there must be a measurement to ascertain that the disc is above two meters. Since the disc dropped to the ground before the measurement could be taken, no penalty was applied.

In the general case, the group will look at the disc's position in the tree and agree it's above two meters, then agree the penalty should be applied. But there's always a walk to the tree before the decision is made.

At least that's my guess at the TD's thought process.

On borderline cases, you cannot call it 2 meter until you get a chance to actually get an approximate measurement. In the OP though, it was very clear from the tee that it was over 2 meters.

It would have been a foot fault even if it were counted as in.

I think you said you picked up your marker and was heading to the basket when it went in

The rules only say you have to demonstrate balance behind the lie before advancing. There is no rule requiring you to stay behind your lie, or to leave your marker on the ground, until the disc comes to rest.

 

[Thumber]

Dusty.....it was la Grosse Coupe in Montreal

I agree with Brad on the teetering disc. I would likely give it to you. However I think the letter of the rules would say not in.

To those saying we couldn't assess if the disc was 2 meters or not from the tee, we could. It was at least 50 feet up in a spruce tree. Pretty obvious in a 240 foot hole.

Where's SkinnyArms? I want to show him how one starts a productive discussion thread lol

 

[teemkey]

On borderline cases, you cannot call it 2 meter until you get a chance to actually get an approximate measurement. In the OP though, it was very clear from the tee that it was over 2 meters.

So if the disc was (say) 8' above the playing surface in a tree, and it fell out before the group reaches the spot, you would not assess a penalty?

 

[Thumber]

So if the disc was (say) 8' above the playing surface in a tree, and it fell out before the group reaches the spot, you would not assess a penalty?

Much less of a clear cut case. 2 meters = 6.56 feet. Judging 8 feet versus 6.6 from 240 feet away I would give the benefit of the doubt to the thrower.

50 feet up is pretty easy to judge