I'm reading mikeykline as saying it was not even close to a fault, as in his foot was not making contact before release. In which case, it isn't "bending", "breaking", "unethical" or any other word someone wants to use to imply wrong-doing. Legal is freaking legal, end of story.
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2015 Tourney Videos
- Thread starter heartman
- Start date
I'm reading mikeykline as saying it was not even close to a fault, as in his foot was not making contact before release. In which case, it isn't "bending", "breaking", "unethical" or any other word someone wants to use to imply wrong-doing. Legal is freaking legal, end of story.
robdeforge
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,356
I tried my best to capture some frame-by-frame pictures of the particular putt you mention at 9:40. Unless I am missing something that you can see, the quality of the video makes it impossible for me to positively determine whether or not the disc is still in his hand when his right foot hits the ground. Here's the link to the imgur album I put together:
http://imgur.com/a/SnZGV
The disc is clearly in his hand for the first two pictures, with his plant foot maintaining a point of contact on his lie and his left foot still in the air. Starting with the third image, it's hard to tell exactly where the disc is and whether it has left his hand. If I had to make a judgment call, I'd say it's still in his hand for the third image. I would guess that it is leaving his hand in the fourth, which is also the frame where it appears his left foot first makes contact with the ground. However it's hard to conclusively tell about either of those things from the quality of this video as the disc and foot placements aren't clear enough. In the last one the disc is definitely out of his hand and his right foot is definitely on the ground so that's not too helpful but I figured it would be best to start a little before and end a little after the supposed infraction.
After watching this, I would:
1) disagree with your assertion that his foot is well on the ground by the time he releases the disc. It might look like that in real time, especially if you already think Uli is a rules abuser, but I really think this frame by frame analysis is unable to conclusively show that it was either legal or illegal.
2) think that something needs to be done to address it, even if I don't know exactly what that is. If we can't determine the legality of a certain putting style with the aid of technology, there's no way we can expect players (that have a personal/financial interest in the outcome) to be able to accurately call this.
3) applaud Uli for developing such an effective style that clearly bends the rules almost to the point of breaking them. Athletes and teams in nearly all sports do that to gain a competitive advantage, and even though I might be frustrated in a way playing on his card if I think he might be foot faulting every putt, I think part of that would be envy that he does something that I can't/won't try.
mikeykline
Birdie Member
This. Thank you.
In the words of Junior Johnson. It's our job to cheat. It's their job to catch us.
paulw
Eagle Member
darn thought there may have been another tourney video posted here.
Foot faults!! Yay!! That's new!! I didn't won't can't see foot faults ever again. Nope . . . didn't see it. Can't tell from here. Nope, play on.
Foot faults!! Yay!! That's new!! I didn't won't can't see foot faults ever again. Nope . . . didn't see it. Can't tell from here. Nope, play on.
But it's not cheating. That's my point here. Cheating is breaking the rules intentionally for an advantage. Jump putts in which you don't leave the ground before release and step putts in which your lead foot is in the air at release are not cheating as they are not illegal acts. The intent of those throws is to do them within the confines of the rules as they are written. Executed legally, they are cheating as much as throwing left-handed or throwing an overhand is "cheating".
Legal is at the discretion of the cardmates you play with. If it is too close to call and cardmates feel your foot is coming down first, they can call it. My point was, what happens when it gets called. How will you react? It is likely you will have to put the shot away, for fear of a second call.
Ethics, intent, cheating have nothing to do with the discussion. Rules violations have nothing to do with the interpretation of the violation....outside of courtesy violations.
If I think your foot is down before you release, I am going to call it.
Then by all means, call it. I'm not objecting to calling it if you think it's actually a violation. Frankly, the game would be better if more people called violations when they saw them rather than choosing not to in order to avoid being the "rules dick".
I'm only disagreeing with the notion that has been brought up by a couple people in the thread (including mikey) that a step putt is, by default, "cheating" or "bending" the rules. There is a way to execute both step and jump shots that is 100% unquestionably legal, same as any other type of shot. That doesn't mean that every time that shot is thrown, it is executed properly and legally. A sentence that applies to any style of throw at any time anywhere on the course.
robdeforge
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,356
You're right, sorry for my huge off topic post, just felt a need to chime in.
I don't see that anybody has posted this yet. (And how do you embed youtube videos again?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6ICk1ckBe4
USDGC 2015 Round 1 (McBeth, Locastro, Vicich)
I know that his skills far-outweigh my own, but Vicich has some painful looking form.
BuzzzChief
Double Eagle Member
I was on the fence about posting this here because I played so poorly, but oh well. This thread could use some fresh footage.
Viridisk sponsored the Crazy Beaver tournament earlier this year, here is the 2nd round MPO lead card round:
I played MPO for the first time ever and managed to shoot a hot first round, and then totally collapsed on camera for the second round. I completely forgot how to putt that day. Overall pretty representative of my year, I've been all over the place. But I still managed to cash!
Viridisk sponsored the Crazy Beaver tournament earlier this year, here is the 2nd round MPO lead card round:
I played MPO for the first time ever and managed to shoot a hot first round, and then totally collapsed on camera for the second round. I completely forgot how to putt that day. Overall pretty representative of my year, I've been all over the place. But I still managed to cash!
notroman
* Ace Member *
The dead and dying ash trees were breaking my heart.
No worries, they were all finally cut down less than a month ago.
notroman
* Ace Member *
2015 Mango Classic Round 2 Lead Card - Cameron Colglazier, Bo Tillman, David Feldberg, Matt Orum
slingdiscs
Par Member
Anyone know who shot the final round of USDGC besides live?
thedisceye
Par Member
I filmed Will's card, Hatchet Harry covered 3rd card I believe, and Jomez had lead card.
DamtheMan
Birdie Member
@ thedisceye, will there be another winter tour (of sorts) like last year/early 2015? Even though it was weird as hell at times seeing snow on the ground but people throwing in teeshirts , I think those were the videos I first noticed from you.
, I think those were the videos I first noticed from you.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
What killed them? I agree, I've seen so many tree deaths due to drought in Texas that it is hard to take. Very sad....
