2022 USADGC

[Cgkdisc]

Has there ever been an X-tier, where players were only allowed to standstill-and-deliver for all throws, no run-ups allowed anywhere? I wonder how that would go. I could see myself enjoying the challenge, and the 'purity' of it.

Ultimate with pivot foot.

 

[krupicka]

I saw a video of 700' deliver and stay shot recently...

 

[Cgkdisc]

So a running putt would still be legal, but with the lie being (optionally) under a different step?

Yes, your follow-thru step. Players could do the same motion they do now on step and jump putts but their follow-thru step after/upon releasing must land on the lie rather than their plant foot that initiates the throw from one step behind their lie.

 

[robdeforge]

If you can't tell without stopping a video frame by frame, then it's good enough in my book. Congratulations on the good putt.
If it's egregious enough to be seen clearly in real time, then by all means, the cardmates should call it and second it. They didn't, so it was good enough. End of story.

obviously it's not the end of the story because people talked more about the putt than the tournament winner, and are still talking about it now. just because something is good to your eye, but clearly a fault when examined closer, doesn't mean discussion should stop.

it's unfortunate that players have basically abused the rules to say "I know I MIGHT be breaking the rules, but it's so close you can't call me!"

 

[ru4por]

obviously it's not the end of the story because people talked more about the putt than the tournament winner, and are still talking about it now. just because something is good to your eye, but clearly a fault when examined closer, doesn't mean discussion should stop.

it's unfortunate that players have basically abused the rules to say "I know I MIGHT be breaking the rules, but it's so close you can't call me!"

I am not a step or jump putter. I don't run across very many AM's that do either and the few that do, are not even close to violations.

The outrage escapes me completely. There are only three guys in the world that should have ANY concern over a step/jump putt violation.....the guys on the card. I sat and watched FRAME BY FRAME, the putts throughout the final round. Hole 11 is the only one, FRAME BY FRAME, that I feel confident could be identified as a foul. There should be no punishment for coming close to a foot fault.

I might say it is unfortunate that players are daring other to break the rules, by blatantly refusing to call it. Making rule changes, to sate the social media outrage seems like an overreaction.

Despite out disagreement, I do hope the RC can take a look at the issue and find some smart fix. Really does not impact my game, so I don't mind a change.

I honestly hope that the AM players I compete against, try to step/jump putt. Few, to any of them, consistently improve their chances of making the putt. I realize that changes as you move up the skill set ladder, but down on the old man/slacker rungs, I am like......."sure, you are outside the circle, go ahead, jump away."

 

[Monocacy]

I watched the finals and playoff and just have to say - those were amazing performances by two 17-year olds.

Seems like a shame that the conversation here is about rules intricacies rather than gutsy and highly skilled performances by kids in high school.

But hey, carry on.

 

[biscoe]

I honestly hope that the AM players I compete against, try to step/jump putt. Few, to any of them, consistently improve their chances of making the putt. I realize that changes as you move up the skill set ladder, but down on the old man/slacker rungs, I am like......."sure, you are outside the circle, go ahead, jump away."

My take as well... Any time anyone asks I tell them they are outside the circle. Very few people are better putters from circles edge with all that extra motion involved.

 

[robdeforge]

There are only three guys in the world that should have ANY concern over a step/jump putt violation.....the guys on the card. I sat and watched FRAME BY FRAME, the putts throughout the final round. Hole 11 is the only one, FRAME BY FRAME, that I feel confident could be identified as a foul. There should be no punishment for coming close to a foot fault.

you don't think that other people in the same division should also be able to have some concern over members of another card?

and you don't think 18 or the winning putt were foot faults?

 

[ru4por]

you don't think that other people in the same division should also be able to have some concern over members of another card?

and you don't think 18 or the winning putt were foot faults?

No, I don't. Other cards calling time violations, courtesy violating other cards.....nope. The game is self policed, card by card. It works, we see it in golf.

Both could be, looking at slo mo, frame by frame....I am still not sure. The guy/guys he was competing against have no issue....I feel no outrage.

I don't see where we are going to agree, rob. I would not be distraught by a rules change, but changing the foundation of self/card enforcement is not pragmatic. Start a revolution, man. Start calling cardmates on jump/step putts. Maybe it will become all the rage?

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I always thought Greg Maddux was a great pitcher. He made a living fooling umps on that outside corner. It wouldn't have been pragmatic (especially as far back as the 1980's) to ENSURE really close pitches were actually going over one molecule of the outside corner of home plate or not.

I sure wouldn't advocate for doing away with that aspect of pitching in the game of baseball. It's the risk/reward spot for hurlers and batters. It's fun, like step putting!

I think a bunch of people on the internet need to chill out about this whole thing. Call foot faults if they're foot faults. I'm with Ru4por here. I don't get the outrage at all.

If you're one of the types who thinks step putting is ugly or a detriment to our game or whatever, maybe go out and give it a thousand practice reps. If you're like me, you'll wind up loving it. And I make sure I'm legal too.

 

[Luckj]

Everyone has the same opportunity with step putts. We are all legally allowed to do them and call cardmates who don't do them legally. Personally, I'd much prefer watching top players hit 60' step putts then standing still and missing putts. Watching Drew Gibson at the DGPT Championship was so exciting because he had learned to hit those long putts.
Also, I don't personally like making sweeping rules that negatively impact 99.9% of players. If the pro tour wants to adopt its own rules that's fine, but I enjoy having the (outside) chance of hitting a long putt. It's the same reason I don't play pickup basketball using the NBA 3 point line.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Eliminate 10m rule. Mark with 30cm/12" bar (a triangular ruler or a collapsed Kwik-Stik could be used?) to provide visual marking reference and widen lie to 30cm. Require that putt be thrown while all supporting points, normally both feet, are behind their mark. Allow players to start their throw from behind their 30x30cm lie but any supporting points landing immediately after release must land behind their mark with at least one of them landing on their lie after releasing their step or jump throw (with follow thru still allowed past their mark).

Essentially, turn the marker bar into our equivalent of a bowling foul line but you are allowed to touch or land on the bar during the throw follow-thru (although not advisable for your own safety).

I agree that the lie should be increased and that passing the mark before balance on any shot should be illegal. I think the lie needs to be about 24" x 24".

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Everyone has the same opportunity with step putts. We are all legally allowed to do them and call cardmates who don't do them legally. Personally, I'd much prefer watching top players hit 60' step putts then standing still and missing putts. Watching Drew Gibson at the DGPT Championship was so exciting because he had learned to hit those long putts.
Also, I don't personally like making sweeping rules that negatively impact 99.9% of players. If the pro tour wants to adopt its own rules that's fine, but I enjoy having the (outside) chance of hitting a long putt. It's the same reason I don't play pickup basketball using the NBA 3 point line.

Step putting always look like cheating to me. Just increase the size of the lie so players can execute the same way without passing the lie.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

To those with the suggestion that step putters should have to step with their front foot onto the lie rather than go past it, you can't step putt by landing your front foot on the lie THEN releasing. The Disc is out of your hand by that point, and if the front foot isn't down on the ground on the lie when you release, you're not in contact with your lie and it's a stance violation, right? It's super awkward to actually try and foot fault by making contact with the front foot on the ground THEN releasing.

Some say it looks like cheating, but they just haven't thought enough about it. It's a legitimate and skillful act in our game. Lots of other sports do just fine and have things like this (such as the outside corner example I mentioned from baseball pitching). Deal with it. The internet has brought us a whole new advanced level of bitching about things that we never had to worry about before where a vocal minority makes small things seem bigger than they are. Step/jump putting is a fun and I'll even say important aspect of our game.

I suppose if they wanted to increase the circle a little bit I'd be okay with it, say to 35 feet. No more than 40 for sure. I benefit as an older guy from using more of my lower body for these big c2 putts (after practicing many many of them) and I believe it belongs in our sport just fine legitimately. Those new to our sport who think it looks like cheating simply need to learn more about our sport.

 

[Cgkdisc]

To those with the suggestion that step putters should have to step with their front foot onto the lie rather than go past it, you can't step putt by landing your front foot on the lie THEN releasing. The Disc is out of your hand by that point, and if the front foot isn't down on the ground on the lie when you release, you're not in contact with your lie and it's a stance violation, right? It's super awkward to actually try and foot fault by making contact with the front foot on the ground THEN releasing.

Yes, it would be a violation currently, but if you read my suggested rule tweaks, it would be legal.

 

[foxdawg10]

It's a shame that the story is the foot fault to tie and to win, instead of 2 great young players having a great match.

I do understand why people are not happy, to me it was an obvious foot fault, and I'm not a fan of step putts to begin with.