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2023 LVC

I'm hoping it isn't soreness setting in. I'm sure he's had to do a lot of off season throwing to get used to his new discs and figure out which ones he was going to bag. That might have taken a whole lot of throwing and stressed his arms/elbows.

I think specifically from his channel it sounded like leading up to the start of the season he was going to spend a lot more time chucking discs. He commented in one video about how hard it is to get real practice in when he's filming everything he does. He was taking a little hiatus from his normal video content to throw more. So it could be arm fatigue...and I didn't see his rounds but it could also be just different conditions with the wind in Vegas. What he throws in the offseason in MA & FL might not have given him a great comfort with "what happens when the wind gets crazy"...though I tend to discount that a BIT because he did start out playing so well in the wind.

It could also just be Simon being Simon. He's one of the most volatile players in terms of his final standings. He could finish first or WAAAAYYYYY back week to week.
 
Chase card R4 was worth a watch. McBeth & Gibson were right on the cusp of making something incredible happen.

Some astounding shots in there. Alas, weird unforced errors too. (H18 teeshots being prime example. Yuck!) I guess the wind plays a big part in them.
 
I think specifically from his channel it sounded like leading up to the start of the season he was going to spend a lot more time chucking discs. He commented in one video about how hard it is to get real practice in when he's filming everything he does. He was taking a little hiatus from his normal video content to throw more. So it could be arm fatigue...and I didn't see his rounds but it could also be just different conditions with the wind in Vegas. What he throws in the offseason in MA & FL might not have given him a great comfort with "what happens when the wind gets crazy"...though I tend to discount that a BIT because he did start out playing so well in the wind.

It could also just be Simon being Simon. He's one of the most volatile players in terms of his final standings. He could finish first or WAAAAYYYYY back week to week.
Simon said in an interview after R1 that he was trying to throw 80%-90% power because he strained something at the All-Star event but it was tough to hold back on those wide open LVC fairways. He may have aggravated his strain after R1 but didn't want to pull out of the event.
 
I think specifically from his channel it sounded like leading up to the start of the season he was going to spend a lot more time chucking discs. He commented in one video about how hard it is to get real practice in when he's filming everything he does. He was taking a little hiatus from his normal video content to throw more. So it could be arm fatigue...and I didn't see his rounds but it could also be just different conditions with the wind in Vegas. What he throws in the offseason in MA & FL might not have given him a great comfort with "what happens when the wind gets crazy"...though I tend to discount that a BIT because he did start out playing so well in the wind.

It could also just be Simon being Simon. He's one of the most volatile players in terms of his final standings. He could finish first or WAAAAYYYYY back week to week.

That (bolded part) could be it. He's know for giving the spectators what they want; Simon lines. So he may have played the best shots available in the first two rounds....and then when he fell enough behind, decided...what the heck....I'll put on a show and throw fun shots.

I remember a video (link below) where Simon and Paul McBeth threw "each others lines" - each one would tell the other what line they would normally throw. Paul said he was going to throw Simon Lines and Simon said he was going to throw Smart Lines.

So maybe Simon threw Smart Lines in the first two rounds and then reverted to being Simon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXwc2oaPkbU
 
If they won't pay attention to where they are, these PDGA and DGPT official "clowns" need to keep themselves and their motorized conveyances off the course, period. There is absolutely no excuse for either incident to have occurred, and I would hope that they both get a real a$$ ripping for it.:wall:
 
I think specifically from his channel it sounded like leading up to the start of the season he was going to spend a lot more time chucking discs. He commented in one video about how hard it is to get real practice in when he's filming everything he does. He was taking a little hiatus from his normal video content to throw more. So it could be arm fatigue...and I didn't see his rounds but it could also be just different conditions with the wind in Vegas. What he throws in the offseason in MA & FL might not have given him a great comfort with "what happens when the wind gets crazy"...though I tend to discount that a BIT because he did start out playing so well in the wind.

It could also just be Simon being Simon. He's one of the most volatile players in terms of his final standings. He could finish first or WAAAAYYYYY back week to week.
With his new contract he should absolutely hire someone to handle filming, editing, etc. He could very easily go through a more comprehensive practice routine, and rely on a good editor to make the content fit his brand and remain engaging. Hell, I have watched maybe a handful of Simon videos in the last year. I'd probably watch more if they were a bit more oriented around him providing simple stream of consciousness focused on reflecting on what he's doing during practice sessions. He's already partway there when he posts some of his practice round videos. Just let someone else handle all the heavy lifting as a professional, and get locked in to his own work and his own game with field work, etc.
 
If they won't pay attention to where they are, these PDGA and DGPT official "clowns" need to keep themselves and their motorized conveyances off the course, period. There is absolutely no excuse for either incident to have occurred, and I would hope that they both get a real a$$ ripping for it.:wall:

Yeah....I have to agree with this. I understand a golf cart, with a tournament designated rules official being available, not a motorcade. Also, spotters on a golf course are dumb. I am over the idea of spotters, posted to flag OB or inbounds. The flags mean NOTHING. They cannot make calls, they cannot mark the spot discs go OB. Get them out of there.
 
Yeah....I have to agree with this. I understand a golf cart, with a tournament designated rules official being available, not a motorcade. Also, spotters on a golf course are dumb. I am over the idea of spotters, posted to flag OB or inbounds. The flags mean NOTHING. They cannot make calls, they cannot mark the spot discs go OB. Get them out of there.
I think they clarified he wasn't a spotter but rather operating a rangefinder for the media team.
 
Note that spectator interference in ball golf rarely results in a no penalty/penalty swing because they don't mark spectator areas as hazards or OB. Most of the grass playing surface of the course is inbounds and spectators are not located near water hazards in or bounding the fairway side of lateral water hazards.

Players even get free relief from TIOs (Temporary Immovable Obstructions) such as tents, viewing stands and camera towers which includes line of sight relief to the side, not just physical obstruction relief. The player's ball typically would have ended up in the rough with or without spectator or TIO contact with a ricochet into a sand trap sometimes resulting in a slightly worse lie than rough. Either way, there's not a full penalty stroke swing in play from contact.

I believe every one of our spectator, cart, spotter, official, water bottle incidents with social media discussion about the good or bad break, involved artificial full stroke penalty boundaries that were "unnecessary" additional penalties. No need for cart path OB and across additionally penalizing throws that were already errant or fluky rollaways that may cost another stroke if the player can't make the save (like landing in rough and sand traps in golf).

For Hazards, give the player the option to either play from their lie in the sand with a stroke penalty or the more sporting (ball golf-like) option to move back on the line of play to the edge of the trap with no penalty and try to save a stroke by making it from there. It still doesn't excuse that rangefinder volunteer from being in a place to interfere with AB's shot, but at least AB would have had a chance to save the penalty stroke attempting a longer putt from trap edge on the LOP either from where the disc contacted the volunteer or from where it landed if it wasn't clear that the disc actually contacted the volunteer.
 
Perhaps we could strike the word "intentionally" from 810.E- "A thrown disc whose course was intentionally altered by someone other than the thrower is given a position at the point of contact, as agreed on by the group. The thrower may choose to play from the resulting lie, or to abandon the throw without penalty, in which case the original throw is not counted in the player's score."
 
Perhaps we could strike the word "intentionally" from 810.E- "A thrown disc whose course was intentionally altered by someone other than the thrower is given a position at the point of contact, as agreed on by the group. The thrower may choose to play from the resulting lie, or to abandon the throw without penalty, in which case the original throw is not counted in the player's score."
Just go all the way and change the Abandoned Throw rule to no penalty but still counting that throw. That's the current winter rule in Minnesota until March 20 but should become the general Abandoned Throw rule. However, the optional relief rule for Hazards near baskets as posted above would still be fairer and more interesting from a risk/reward standpoint.
 
Note that spectator interference in ball golf rarely results in a no penalty/penalty swing because they don't mark spectator areas as hazards or OB. Most of the grass playing surface of the course is inbounds and spectators are not located near water hazards in or bounding the fairway side of lateral water hazards.

Players even get free relief from TIOs (Temporary Immovable Obstructions) such as tents, viewing stands and camera towers which includes line of sight relief to the side, not just physical obstruction relief. The player's ball typically would have ended up in the rough with or without spectator or TIO contact with a ricochet into a sand trap sometimes resulting in a slightly worse lie than rough. Either way, there's not a full penalty stroke swing in play from contact.

I believe every one of our spectator, cart, spotter, official, water bottle incidents with social media discussion about the good or bad break, involved artificial full stroke penalty boundaries that were "unnecessary" additional penalties. No need for cart path OB and across additionally penalizing throws that were already errant or fluky rollaways that may cost another stroke if the player can't make the save (like landing in rough and sand traps in golf).

For Hazards, give the player the option to either play from their lie in the sand with a stroke penalty or the more sporting (ball golf-like) option to move back on the line of play to the edge of the trap with no penalty and try to save a stroke by making it from there. It still doesn't excuse that rangefinder volunteer from being in a place to interfere with AB's shot, but at least AB would have had a chance to save the penalty stroke attempting a longer putt from trap edge on the LOP either from where the disc contacted the volunteer or from where it landed if it wasn't clear that the disc actually contacted the volunteer.

One thing I haven't heard is.....did AB yell Fore! when he saw his disc headed towards the person?

As a spotter, I've had cases where I lost sight of the disc and was looking for it, but the players never yelled fore when they saw it coming at me. Luckily, I've never been hit. But the point is that the player's rarely yell fore when the disc is going towards a volunteer, official, non-spectator. They tend to assume the person sees the disc....which isn't always true.

Non-spectators put themselves in the best position to not be in the line of play. However, sight is lost of discs, discs don't always go where you think they are going, and sometimes the disc goes further than expected. There is nothing stopping the players from yelling FORE when they see the disc going towards someone - regardless if that someone is a spectator, spotter, camera person, etc...
 
Consider:

812 Courtesy
A. A player must not:
1. Throw if the throw might injure someone [...];

3. Engage in distracting or unsportsmanlike actions such as:
a. Shouting (unless warning someone at risk of being struck by a disc),


803.01 Moving Obstacles
B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:
[…]
2. A player may request that other people move themselves or their belongings.

802.03 Excessive Time
A. A player has taken excessive time if they are present and have not thrown within 30 seconds:
[…]
4. During which the playing area is remains clear.

810 Interference
C. A thrown disc that strikes a person or animal is played where it first comes to rest.
 
Kinda related, but could McBeth have asked a staff member to clear hole 17 of the geese before driving? Seems like his disc hit one of them at the end of its flight. Could have maybe gotten a little closer to the basket, maybe birdie it?

I remember back in the day at one of the first holes at the Fountain at the Memorial, there as somebody riding around on their bike to shoo off the coots or whatever they were.

Re: shouting fore; doesnt need to be your disc in the air to shout it
 
Kinda related, but could McBeth have asked a staff member to clear hole 17 of the geese before driving? Seems like his disc hit one of them at the end of its flight. Could have maybe gotten a little closer to the basket, maybe birdie it?

I remember back in the day at one of the first holes at the Fountain at the Memorial, there as somebody riding around on their bike to shoo off the coots or whatever they were.

Re: shouting fore; doesnt need to be your disc in the air to shout it

are you implying he had fowl trouble?:|
 
Was Chris Dickerson even in the LVC last week? Don't see him on the leaderboard and haven't seen any news about his appearance or lack of.
 
Nope- he skipped it and will be skipping the West Coast swing as well.
He's pretty travel adverse and seems to prefer wooded courses anyway. One of the big parts of signing with Discraft was that he got a camper and the money allowed him to focus on the events he wanted to play. Can't wait to see him back on coverage though!
 

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