A few vids for critique

[JR]

Look at the left knee at the rip and see how the leg dragged on the ground. The knee should become straight at the rip to get acceleration to the end or even a little after the rip and the toe should remain stationary or the leg is not pushing any more. The right leg is getting pretty far forward for the moving speed. If you cannot add speed to the left leg push and stop or seriously limit the raising of the right leg from the hip toward the target during the plant step you might need to switch to the Feldy kick at higher power levels. Look at Will Schusterick slo mo videos and how close his knees are together so that he can turn quickly and push hard with the legs.

You were flat footed and that ruins the throw so it is hard to comment how the rest of throw goes because it is corrupted.

I vary where i look at based on the angle. The closer my hyzer angle is to golf club swing angle the more i use a golf type head is down after the rip and the shoulders turning in the follow through bring the head up. I have a limber neck and i warm up and stretch before the first throw and i've been warned that my flat throw head usage is dangerous and people with neck trouble could hurt themselves bad. With a flat throw i utilize the natural plane that the discs in the neck rotate. Which happens to match 100 % to a flat throw disc and arm swing angle, hip twist and shoulder turn too. I aim also in visual way. I try to pick a reference point sideways and vertically and throw to that precise point. Climo gave a tip to turn the eyes to the corner of the eye so that once you turn from the reach back toward the target you'll acquire the target the quickest visually. The throw is so quick that the eyes have trouble focusing if you don't turn the head in advance of the body, lock the head in place so that you can see the target and rotate the lower neck and everything below freely. Apparently not everyone can do that. My neck is like a ball bearing so i achieve a good disconnect between the weight of the head and the movements of the head and the body. Which in golf and disc golf spike hyzers will throw you off balance. That is why for different angles different head usage is needed if you aim visually too for milder hyzers to annies.

 

[CaddyJeff]

thanks for the quick replies as always, headed out to get some throws in!

 

[CaddyJeff]

Long time no see! Haven't been to the field in a while so I decided to take the go pro to the course with me yesterday. My throw isnt perfect yet, but I thought I would give a sort of 1 year update even though it hasnt quite been a year since I started.



PS - I didnt get a chance to edit this one so its just 3 or 4 throws with no slow mo, sorry : /

Also: This hole plays like ~285 and all of my shots except the 3rd(orange one) were pin high or longer (discs in order : 172 echo star leopard, 173? Z wasp, 171 x comet, 175 d drone)

 

[JR]

Is that the way you throw for maximum power? Not reaching back farther helps in consistency and accuracy but a longer reach back adds more distance. I don't think the masterbeato video left leg kick up is the proper way to develop the most power. In the Feldy kick the left leg should move like a door at a constant height not down to up. Or the left leg should be grounded until the disc has left. Evidence: Your hips and shoulders did not move much at all to the right. There was too little momentum to turn the body and twist the hips and turn the shoulders. Even passively which happens when you push hard with the left leg and brace the right leg. You might also push back with the right leg. And move faster with the steps. Your momentum is so minimal that you did not take a proper follow through step and oddly enough you still lost balance at the hips tilting to the right. Tighter core muscles hold you upright better and experimenting where to land the plant step and in which direction to run (read my signature) might help there.

 

[iacas]

Or the left leg should be grounded until the disc has left. Evidence: Your hips and shoulders did not move much at all to the right. … Even passively which happens when you push hard with the left leg and brace the right leg.

Are you still convinced that the left or trail leg pushes off, despite the incredible amount of evidence that clearly shows the left foot leaving the ground very early into the forward motion of many player's throws?

 

[CaddyJeff]

No, that was maybe 60 or 70%. There is a tournament at the course I was throwing at(trophy lakes in charleston, SC) this weekend and it was very busy the day I was trying to film. There are only a few holes I would feel comfortable giving it everything(there is a lot of water on this course) and I didnt want to clog up the pace by throwing a handful of discs and then having to go find them if I shanked one. Just a straight shot with a little fade at the end.

I see what you mean about the momentum in hips and shoulders, and I have been experimenting with a longer reach back(Will Schusterick's new drive video), but I haven't really gotten used to the torque yet and I turn the disc over a lot. As far as the core tightness, that was just laziness on my part I guess, usually my pre throw routine checklist has a few "JR" requisites that I try to focus on before my throw(run up line, core tightness, staying on balls of feet).

It seems like my snap is a bit forced, do u think that is just a timing issue? My right leg and hips seem to be opening too soon.

Anyways, I looked at some of my videos from last summer and I can definitely tell I have come a long way, so thanks again to all of you who take free time out of your day to help a fellow disc golfer get better!

 

[JR]

Much of the arm timing issue arises from the lack of pause so you do not have enough time to move the elbow ahead of the body before straightening the elbow. Removing the early opening of the leg and body is gonna help but pulling faster with the arm might help too but it might lead to strong arming as well.

Iacas i have two terms for you 1 belief in authorities 2 Sir Isaac Newton. My comment on 1: People have room to improve and the faster you go the harder it is to keep the left leg planted because the leg would have to be super quick to be able to accelerate faster than you are already moving. Therefore keeping the left leg planted until the disc has left is better used by lightning fast legged players preferably on less than full run up speed throws that start with less than maximum speed steps which is btw. what for example Feldy teaches in his clinics thanks to F=MA that Blake here teaches too. At a full run speed run up the Feldy kick is a much more easy way to counter what 2: Sir Isaac Newton's laws of motion describe. Specifically for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction. Eliminating that equal and opposite reaction is required for the best distance so whichever method works should be used. I don't care which method is used as long as it works. And there are no other disadvantages.

It may be a matter of practicing and personal preference if you want to use one method or both methods for different shots. I have been at times able to keep the left leg planted with enough knee bend even with a full speed run up but it is not consistent enough and i need to be fresh enough to have enough push in my leg left and OTOH warmed up not to hurt myself. It takes all my speed and power from the left leg and it bulges the muscles hard and can be painful when i'm not fully warmed up. That means i am usually only warmed up and fresh enough a part of the round or in field practice for a while so the applicability to a tournament is very restricted for a full power throw. Which is why i prefer to use that method for approaches and pulled power throws and that points out to needing to get more familiar with the Feldy kick for full power throws in tourneys. That is what i've been wanting to try out more but getting surgery last year that finally gave me back enough ankle mobility to pull it off properly and pain free hopefully without injuring me more has finally unlocked the ability to practice it. Having thrown less than 20 sessions since has stopped me from getting more automatic with it. That should change during this season. When i threw like this i had to pivot on the ball of the foot and heel pivots still hurt when done more than a few times and will for a long time to come said the surgeon who operated me. So i have no predictions about when i get more experience and possibly find new pros and cons about the Feldy kick outside of physics.

I'm just about to leave to Deep in the Game clinic with Avery so i need to pick his brain if we have the time.

 

[iacas]

Iacas i have two terms for you 1 belief in authorities 2 Sir Isaac Newton.

Here are the problems with that:

1) What a pro says is often very, very different than what they OBVIOUSLY do. We see it ALL the time in sports.

2) There are a lot of ways to get your weight forward - including just using the momentum you've built up by running up. You don't need to be pushing with your trail leg.

The majority of top tier disc golfers have the trail foot in the air very early in the forward motion. It cannot and is not contributing to "pushing forward."

 

[JR]

Agreed on all counts. The point of countering the arm swing with the Feldy kick or keeping the rear leg planted until the disc has left is _also_ to counter the left rotation of the body (not just weight shift forward even though that needs to happen too) that would happen rhbh standing on the right leg if not squeezing the core so tight that it reduces speed. Besides twisting the hips would be useless. Avery said that the rear leg needs to be planted until after the rip. I'm sure that there are exceptions to every rule but i'm sure that most players stand still throw with both feet planted.

I hope DGR can show this video of Will almost succeeding. His rear leg slides on the ground partially countering the arm swing rotation but not as effectively as having the rear leg stay in place in one spot on the ground.

 

[iacas]

I hope DGR can show this video of Will almost succeeding. His rear leg slides on the ground partially countering the arm swing rotation but not as effectively as having the rear leg stay in place in one spot on the ground.

Yes, his foot is sliding pretty much the instant he begins his "downswing," similar to almost all good/great players:

 

[JR]

Do i recall correctly that those tees were slippery so the players were allowed to tee off from the grass this year? Traction plays an important part in being able to stop the left leg in one place on the ground to push off from. Avery had similar slides in seven drives with Avery Jenkins video on Youtube channel lcgm8 IIRC. Back to front weight shift is easy getting the maximum turning speed left to right isn't as easy. Interestingly Avery said that he does not try to actively twist his hips to the right and he turns just with the momentum. I didn't ask him about turning the shoulders because i was surprised and we were in the middle of a clinic with lots of other stuff going on with many people.

I think most great players have the rear leg airborne at the rip in the majority of drives that have faster steps. Unfortunately the video of Will getting a fairway ace at Copenhagen Open on Will's channel had the rip in between pictures but it seemed to me that it is very likely he had his rear leg airborne at the rip starting from a stand still. So there's that exception to mostly keeping both feet planted in stand stills. Which is what Avery drilled many times in his clinic. Using terms like "athletic position" word for word the same thing that Feldy talked of in his clinic on stances in putts. Avery was talking about stand still approaches and drives.

 

[iacas]

Do i recall correctly that those tees were slippery so the players were allowed to tee off from the grass this year?

Seriously? "The tee was slippery" is the best you've got? Give me a break. I'm out.

 

[JR]

What was that comment even about? I recall that Discgolfplanet commentators said that. It is a fact that on tacky rubber the rear leg slides much less than on soap. Tees and second shot surfaces vary in grip right? Let alone wet, dirty or frozen tees. So what is the problem?

 

[JR]

Ricky did not slide much here would you say and kept the left toe tip planted when the disc had gone? I watched the first two shots at a little before and during the rip frame by frame and on the second shot it may be the moving of the left foot to the toe tip or a genuine slip of half an inch (not too destructive to power generation and sideways accuracy/consistency vs Will in the previous video i posted in this thread). He seems to have an edge on the other top players technique wise in being able to keep the rear foot planted until the disc has left although i should not declare winners before taking a close slo mo look at some other top dogs. Not too bad for the top rated guy ever. Connection between leg plant and rating? IDK but he must be doing many other things right as well to be able to play so well and above all consistently. He does not seem to have weak spots in his form so maybe it would be a good idea to emulate him.