Ace race question

[ElementZ]

Hi all,

There's a chance I'm going to host an ace race type mini tournament in a couple months with the following rules.

$10 / round
1 disc / round
1 throw / hole
5 points for an ace, 3 points for metal, 1 point for landing within 10 feet

It'll be something like 12 holes and people can play anytime and as much as they want in a four hour window. Winner would get a Skillshot and 1-3 places would get gift cards to the local disc golf store.

Anyone have experience with anything like this? Anything I need to consider? We're raising money for the neighborhood and Madison has such a strong disc golf community that I think it could be quite successful.

Thanks!

 

[Cgkdisc]

Recommend $5 a round with all holes between 50-100 feet so even beginners have realistic chances to score some points to produce higher replay incentive
OR
Throw 2 discs per hole if you charge $10 per round with 3 pts for ace, 1 point for metal and save time with no points for just landing near basket.

 

[glassila]

I don't think there is enough point separation between an ace (5 points) and a metal hit (3 points). I would not be happy if I hit 2 aces and lost to someone who had 4 metal hits and no aces. I like the idea of points for metal hits, just not 3 points if an ace is worth 5.
I would get rid of the points for landing within 10 feet.

 

[ru4por]

I might consider just throwing 12 layups. I would lose the CTP points.

 

[ElementZ]

I don't think there is enough point separation between an ace (5 points) and a metal hit (3 points). I would not be happy if I hit 2 aces and lost to someone who had 4 metal hits and no aces. I like the idea of points for metal hits, just not 3 points if an ace is worth 5.
I would get rid of the points for landing within 10 feet.

Maybe ace 10, metal 3? What's a good ratio?

And agreed with Chuck that no holes should be more than 150 ft or so.

Why no love for the 10' point? I think it'd make it more fun for people if they could at least score a few points in the round, especially for beginners who have never played. Also makes it more fun to get your disc knowing there's a chance you may at least get a point despite missing.

I appreciate the quick feedback from you all, thank you!

 

[ElementZ]

After eating lunch on it, maybe I will just do a 3 pts Ace, 1 pt Metal. Saves me having to mark all the 10' circles on the ground. Thanks all.

Further feedback certainly appreciated.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

After eating lunch on it, maybe I will just do a 3 pts Ace, 1 pt Metal. Saves me having to mark all the 10' circles on the ground. Thanks all.

Further feedback certainly appreciated.

100% agree with keeping holes no more than 150'. Maybe even a couple in the 80 - 100 range, so novices. More Aces = more fun.

Agree with eliminating points for being close, if you really want to encourage running aces.

I think 3 pts for Aces and 1 pt for metal should be OK and fun for all. You can play with the point weighting for Aces vs metal till the cows come home, and still have people 2nd guess whatever you decided on, so don't drive yourself nuts over it.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Ace races have set up holes way too long to truly test throwing skill with only a few aces and metal hits typically winning. I suspect sometimes more than half the field scores zero even with 36 throws, that is if they even think it's worth it to participate. Just think about how many metal hits let alone aces you would get out of 12 total throws, one each from 12 different tees all 100 feet away. Would you risk $20 to win $40 if you got at least one metal, let alone an ace? I'm not sure I could metal at least 50% of every 12 throws from 100 feet. How about you?

I think good ace races should have hole lengths starting just beyond the 10-meter line, typically used as the longest station in putting leagues, up to a 100 feet. Make the shots interesting with some elevation and shot shaping required. Ace races should not be about one or two players "lucking" into one or two aces or metals but many players scoring several aces and metals both for fun and testing skill. In fact, ideally every player scores at least one point so they want to go around again, especially for fundraisers. Two throws per station gives players a chance to get their range on the first throw to perhaps score on the second throw.

While I like the idea of the 10' circle, I'm not sure it's worth the time and hassle if an ace race is set up well enough so there's lots of ace and metal scoring. Plus, you want players to have incentive to throw at the basket versus lay up.

That's my ace race soapbox, FWIW.

 

[glassila]

I totally agree with having really short holes, anything over 150' is too long.
The downside of short holes is there will be a lot of walking between holes.
For instance, if the actually hole is 400 feet then you will be walking 300 feet past the actual tee pad to get to the 100 foot Ace tee area.

 

[Improbably]

Why no love for the 10' point? I think it'd make it more fun for people if they could at least score a few points in the round, especially for beginners who have never played. Also makes it more fun to get your disc knowing there's a chance you may at least get a point despite missing.

I like the idea but unless you mark every 10' circle with excruciating clarity there is going to be confusion/uncertainty/disagreement.

 

[Steve West]

There will be about 7 or 8 times as many metal hits as aces. If you want most of the points to come from aces, make aces 8 (or more) points to every point for a metal hit.

Or, most aces wins - with metal hits as tiebreaker.

 

[ru4por]

There will be about 7 or 8 times as many metal hits as aces. If you want most of the points to come from aces, make aces 8 (or more) points to every point for a metal hit.

Or, most aces wins - with metal hits as tiebreaker.

I agree with this, most ace races that I have played were aces wins and metal was the tiebreak.

Be sure to define metal hit. I have played a couple where metal was declared cage and above. I also saw this create confusion when metal was heard, but not clearly seen. I say metal is metal, but some may disagree.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There will be about 7 or 8 times as many metal hits as aces. If you want most of the points to come from aces, make aces 8 (or more) points to every point for a metal hit.

Or, most aces wins - with metal hits as tiebreaker.

That might be true with full length holes, but the closer the holes get; the ratio gets smaller. For example, at 20 feet, aces and metals might be equal. Plus, we know when real money is involved when players are in on 51, an ace is $5 versus $1 for metal. The goal in this fundraiser is encouraging participation with good replay value, not scoring precision. An ace for 3 points and 1 point for metal is easy to score and will seem fair with metal points counting towards total points, not just a tiebreaker. Again, assuming holes are set between 40-100 feet.

 

[Steve West]

That might be true with full length holes, but the closer the holes get; the ratio gets smaller. For example, at 20 feet, aces and metals might be equal. Plus, we know when real money is involved when players are in on 51, an ace is $5 versus $1 for metal. The goal in this fundraiser is encouraging participation with good replay value, not scoring precision. An ace for 3 points and 1 point for metal is easy to score and will seem fair with metal points counting towards total points, not just a tiebreaker. Again, assuming holes are set between 40-100 feet.

For a putting league that would be a valid point. Not for the lengths being talked about.

The ratio of metal to aces only starts going down when the chance of an ace gets above 1 in 7 or 8.

However, people like to get something for nothing, so padding the importance of metal hits might be a good idea.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Heavy metal night around here is always fun, usually someone calls it on their birthday league round (night rounds casual, not Sunday "Church" round)... Any metal counts as in but to snag money for an ace it has to be an ace. Metal hits still count as a 1 off the drive though.

I'd be choked if I had two aces and the guy that won had 10 metals...

Heck it's your tourney, most aces wins with metal tiebreaker and most metal without an ace gets a prize too. Don't know how far those pay out, I always wanted to play one.

Easier scoring will make your life easier... but haha you could do 8 or 10 points for an ace, two for chains, one for metal.

 

[Binky Yutz]

FWIW: My very first tournament and my very first Ace, was a Discraft Ace Race. $20 entry fee. We were given two Discraft discs (can't remember the mold) and had to throw either of those two discs. One throw per hole, 18 holes, all 140 feet or less. 5 points for an Ace, 1 point for metal, 0 for being close.

There were only 2 Aces in that tournament. I had one of them on hole 18, around 125 feet. Another guy had the other Ace but drew metal also on one hole. So, he won the tournament, BUT he didn't get in on the Cash Ace Pot, and I did. It was $2 for the Ace Pot. The tournament winner got a bunch of swag and I got around $70 in cash. I feel like I left a winner in spite of not winning. Still have those two discs but have never bagged them or thrown them since.

 

[glassila]

I ran a Discraft Ace Race for 4 or 5 years then switched over to a Trilogy Challenge "Ace Run" for the past 2 years. In both cases the winner was the player with the most aces, metal hits was used as a tiebreaker.
Players like the Trilogy version much more because they get 3 discs (driver, mid, putter) whereas in the Discraft Ace Race you got 2 of the exact same discs that were often crappy discs.

 

[The Shide]

I totally agree with having really short holes, anything over 150' is too long.
The downside of short holes is there will be a lot of walking between holes.
For instance, if the actually hole is 400 feet then you will be walking 300 feet past the actual tee pad to get to the 100 foot Ace tee area.

Agreed. But, one could put a temp basket in the middle of the longer holes. Create more opportunities for Aces.

 

[BillFleming]

I've played in a formal Ace Race (Discraft sponsored). Each person got two discs (again, Discraft sponsored it and this was a way to prototype discs). We got two discs so that if one got lost, we had a second one.

We marked an A for an ace and a M for hitting metal (pole did not count).

Aces paid/counted.

Metal hits were used for tie-breakers.

 

[uncle pennybags]

I always liked the Birde Bash over the Ace Race events.

Two discs, two shots (often two different discs). Points for aces and metal hits. Seemed to be a little more fun than shorty ace races.