ActonTV

[Ryan P.]

They've posted some rounds from the Vacationland Open.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkplX4r1Ooc800sC6iWN8jg

There are a few things to smooth out, but that's to be expected with a first DG video. Anyone know if they plan to continue filming tourneys, or if this is a one-off?

 

[JC17393]

They've posted some rounds from the Vacationland Open.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkplX4r1Ooc800sC6iWN8jg

There are a few things to smooth out, but that's to be expected with a first DG video. Anyone know if they plan to continue filming tourneys, or if this is a one-off?

It's not their first time filming. They have a number of events on their channel, going back a couple years. They also have their own page, NEDG Productions, where their stuff is playlisted and easier to find. I think they release under the ActonTV account because they work with (or are partially funded/equipped by) a local access cable channel in Acton MA.

 

[zjones9]

Who's idea was it to use that course for an A-tier?

 

[Ryan P.]

Who's idea was it to use that course for an A-tier?

Geez I hear ya. that course was pretty, but not A-tier material

 

[ToddL]

Who's idea was it to use that course for an A-tier?

Probably the guys who raised the money.

 

[TimSyl]

Probably the guys who raised the money.

The same guys who put all of the work in.

 

[JC17393]

What exactly is "A-tier material" when it comes to courses? I'm not going to pretend it was some sort of Gold level crusher of a course, but why does it have to be?

A-tiers are defined by added cash, not by course design. Generally speaking, A-tiers aren't tournaments set up for the touring pro level of player. They attract some, certainly, but most of that is a product of the schedule and perhaps the money rather than the courses. A-tiers are for local and regional players, including Ams. And there were Ams involved in this one (82 of them). The course suits them just fine.

Probably the guys who raised the money.

Bingo.

 

[zjones9]

What exactly is "A-tier material" when it comes to courses? I'm not going to pretend it was some sort of Gold level crusher of a course, but why does it have to be?

A-tiers are defined by added cash, not by course design. Generally speaking, A-tiers aren't tournaments set up for the touring pro level of player. They attract some, certainly, but most of that is a product of the schedule and perhaps the money rather than the courses. A-tiers are for local and regional players, including Ams. And there were Ams involved in this one (82 of them). The course suits them just fine.



Bingo.

Half the holes were wide open 200-250 ft shots... If you call that suitable then I guess we agree to disagree.

 

[JC17393]

Half the holes were wide open 200-250 ft shots... If you call that suitable then I guess we agree to disagree.

Having played the course (and the tournament in question), I'll just assume that I have a better grasp of the course's suitability than you do.

Judging a course based exclusively on video of how the top four players of the day played it doesn't strike me as the best way to judge a course's suitability for anything other than how it might have challenged those players specifically. And I've already conceded it's not a Gold level course designed to seriously challenge 1020 rated players like them.

The course was more than suitable for the 82 ams (and probably the MP50s and FPO too) that played the event. I never and will never argue that it's an ideal course to test a bunch of 1000+ rated pros. But it's the course that fit the TD's needs for the weekend, so it is what was played.

 

[TimSyl]

Half the holes were wide open 200-250 ft shots... If you call that suitable then I guess we agree to disagree.

I enjoy watching the top level players on the youtube vids. However, I hope disc doesn't go the way of ball golf and "Tiger proof" (McBeth proof in our case), all of the courses. Don't know but I'm guessing the guys/club who put on the event worked for less than minimum wage, if they even made any money, to put on the event. Did people who played the event complain?

 

[JC17393]

I enjoy watching the top level players on the youtube vids. However, I hope disc doesn't go the way of ball golf and "Tiger proof" (McBeth proof in our case), all of the courses. Don't know but I'm guessing the guys/club who put on the event worked for less than minimum wage, if they even made any money, to put on the event. Did people who played the event complain?

My only complaint about it was the tee times. I'm an early-riser, shotgun start kind of guy, so waiting around until 12:30 or 1:00 to play one round each day didn't suit my tastes very well. However, it's nothing I'd critique the TDs about. From all accounts I've heard, it was a great weekend. I had a blast.

The course is privately owned and I know the owner and his family put a hell of a lot of time and effort into maintaining and improving it despite it not being a self-sustaining kind of business. It's a labor of love like most disc golf courses. It's a favorite among a lot of locals.

The TD is an ambitious go-getter who has taken this event from a C-tier to A-tier in five years (this is year 6 and year 2 as an A-tier), and it just happens to fall on the weekend before Maple Hill (about 170 miles away) so it gets the attention of some touring folks. They all come up and treat it like the event title suggests...a vacation.

 

[zjones9]

Alright, let's try this again...

The course was in great shape. The video coverage was awesome, and well shot. All the players (the few that I saw on the video) looked very happy. Big props to the hard work that was put in to get the money raised to make this an A-tier.

The point I was trying to make, which I think you agree with, is simply that the course (more specifically a handful of holes) that did not belong in ANY Open tournament. Sure, maybe that layout would have been fine for the majority of the divisions, but it would have been nice to see at least a longer tee option for the open/advanced field.

You are also correct that I know nothing about this course other than what I gathered from the video, so it may not be feasible on all the holes to have a separate tee.

 

[JC17393]

Alright, let's try this again...

The course was in great shape. The video coverage was awesome, and well shot. All the players (the few that I saw on the video) looked very happy. Big props to the hard work that was put in to get the money raised to make this an A-tier.

The point I was trying to make, which I think you agree with, is simply that the course (more specifically a handful of holes) that did not belong in ANY Open tournament. Sure, maybe that layout would have been fine for the majority of the divisions, but it would have been nice to see at least a longer tee option for the open/advanced field.

You are also correct that I know nothing about this course other than what I gathered from the video, so it may not be feasible on all the holes to have a separate tee.

Bold is the case. Everyone was playing from the longest tees available (there are two sets). I think there are some plans to potentially stretch a couple holes out, like hole 1. But by and large space is tapped out.

And again, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it doesn't belong in any Open tournament, but you are right that it doesn't provide ideal challenge to players at the level of the guys who were featured on the videos. It's a 5800 foot course without much in the way of foliage. Guys who can throw 450-500 are going to have a field day with it. That's not all Open players though.

I still quibble with the "not A-tier material" line though. I've seen plenty of MPO A-tiers on lesser courses than this one.

 

[zjones9]

I still quibble with the "not A-tier material" line though. I've seen plenty of MPO A-tiers on lesser courses than this one.

And that's the biggest reason for my post. I also have seen A-tiers on courses that are not challenging. I would like to see a shift from that to prioritize using more challenging courses, or at least using some temp layouts to adjust the difficulty to meet the needs of the open players.

I feel like you think I'm making a personal attack on this course. I'm not. Well, at least I don't mean to be. Apologies if it came across that way. But I stand behind my statement that this course, in it's current layout, is NOT a good course to challenge any open field, whether it's a c tier or a tier.

 

[JC17393]

And that's the biggest reason for my post. I also have seen A-tiers on courses that are not challenging. I would like to see a shift from that to prioritize using more challenging courses, or at least using some temp layouts to adjust the difficulty to meet the needs of the open players.

I feel like you think I'm making a personal attack on this course. I'm not. Well, at least I don't mean to be. Apologies if it came across that way. But I stand behind my statement that this course, in it's current layout, is NOT a good course to challenge any open field, whether it's a c tier or a tier.

I don't read it as a personal attack on the course. I was really only questioning what exactly is the threshold for "A-tier material" in general. Particularly in light of the fact that A-tiers are rarely focused on pros alone and even more rarely on elite level pros. Plenty of places have limited resources such that they can't cater every detail of the event for every division/skill-level.

As for the course not being a good course for any Open field, if that's the case, then probably 80% of existing courses in the world shouldn't be hosting tournaments with an MPO division. I'm with you if we're talking about tournaments for elite pros like NTs and Majors and DGPT. I think it's a step too far to extend the argument to all tournaments with an MPO division.

 

[zjones9]

Agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[Ryan P.]

What I meant: subjectively for me it was a let down to watch because of the course. Filming was great, commentary was as smooth as I expected for the experience the guys have, and the pros are some great players.

However, subjectively, I enjoy watching disc golf for two reasons: the storylines, the courses, and the shots. The second two weren't what I expected personally because the course was very short and not challenging for those guys, and therefore the shots they made weren't as good as I expected (because they weren't challenged all that much).

Maybe my expectations are too high. Clearly it's okay for the guys there to hold an A-tier. Congrats to them for getting it. I just wasn't pumped to watch it after realizing the holes weren't great.

Don't let my letdown make you guys that worked on the course and the tournament get annoyed.