Alas poor MacBeth, we hardly knew ye

[brutalbrutus]

Yea. I dont know if he just got bored but he's been at that point of all or nothing for a couple years it seems like. He's pretty much always trying to throw the hot round. Then he had those back and knee issues the last year or so that just messed up his putting stroke. But he seems to be getting that back. But like Jamie said, there are just so many great players now, those final round(s) McBeast mode comebacks are just not happening like they used too...


...another thing too. Is it just me or does he seem to be getting a lot more bad breaks than he used too? Or are they just more noticeable now that he isn't making those big comebacks?

 

[Grippenripp]

O/U on how many more posts before the man himself steps in and crushes the OP...

As we have seen him do.

 

[DiscFifty]

I don't think it's so much a case of MCB playing worse as it a case for other guys playing better. Especially in the long game. I mean...cmon..this was Drew's tournament to win. If he didn't mess up some approach shots and a few putts, he would have won. On these long open courses we're going to see Simon, Eagle, Drew, GG, all or most of them...in the top 5 all day long. I still think Paul's overall game is as good or better than anyone. As this season progresses, I'm sure we'll see things average out to where Paul typically is. At the end of the day...regardless of rating...there is some serious physics at play and discs bounce out or fly through (have you seen the gaps on the side chains of those Veterans baskets?!?) baskets when they shouldn't. Luck is part of the game. Eagle's skip in 2 is a great example. If that misses the basket, it's 30-50ft past and ob.

 

[runningDoc]

could it be that taller/larger wing-span-ed guys are just throwing more overstable plastic further than paul in mostly open courses so far?

in the case of eagle he seems to have more distance than paul in every shot, sidearm/backhand/roller/grenades/scoobies/thumbers/tomahawks on top of a confident spin putt thrown with massively overstable PD2 compared to paul's destroyers.

ricky seems to be using his physical advantages too (longer wingspan more options with shots).

in these open bomber/windy courses it clearly favors people who throw far with overstable plastic.

cam todd winning gbo 2 years ago was awesome but they did play other courses than the golf course where Todd used a lot of smart golf play to win.

hopefully the vermont courses for worlds will have lots of difficult technical new england woods play that can even out the advantage of slinging massively overstable plastic 500ft on hyzer. thats where paul really shined during his 4x run: being totally versatile in the open/woods/wind/pressure/setbacks/etc.

USDGC seems to weed out cerebral play over pure athleticism.

then again maybe its just eagle's year this year, he seems to be able to play in the woods too.

 

[brutalbrutus]

could it be that taller/larger wing-span-ed guys are just throwing more overstable plastic further than paul in mostly open courses so far?

in the case of eagle he seems to have more distance than paul in every shot, sidearm/backhand/roller/grenades/scoobies/thumbers/tomahawks on top of a confident spin putt thrown with massively overstable PD2 compared to paul's destroyers.

ricky seems to be using his physical advantages too (longer wingspan more options with shots).

in these open bomber/windy courses it clearly favors people who throw far with overstable plastic.

cam todd winning gbo 2 years ago was awesome but they did play other courses than the golf course where Todd used a lot of smart golf play to win.

hopefully the vermont courses for worlds will have lots of difficult technical new england woods play that can even out the advantage of slinging massively overstable plastic 500ft on hyzer. thats where paul really shined during his 4x run: being totally versatile in the open/woods/wind/pressure/setbacks/etc.

USDGC seems to weed out cerebral play over pure athleticism.

then again maybe its just eagle's year this year, he seems to be able to play in the woods too.

Smuggler's Notch has two courses. One(Fox Run) is a more open bomber style course, The other (Brewster Ridge) is a longish wooded course...

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/media.php?id=7962&mode=media

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/media.php?id=2510&mode=media

Look up the Green Mountain Championship on Jomez to see the courses...

 

[StevenSeagal]

1030 before 1050 is a bit of a hot take. He hasn't been rated lower than 1040 since he won his first worlds, which includes during the worst of his injuries.

My take is that he's just too aggressive all of the time. The meta game is changing, course design is changing, etc. His round ratings seem (to the eye, haven't run a model) to be still at that elite 1% level, but people have learned to how to counter punch him.

He's playing like Simon used to, trying to throw highlight rounds. There are just too many more players who are making him pay for mistakes these days so he can't clear the leaderboard like he used to.

^This
He's strong-arming mentally at times, and he's so darn good that he still ranks.

 

[armiller]

My take is that he's just too aggressive all of the time. ...

He's playing like Simon used to, trying to throw highlight rounds. There are just too many more players who are making him pay for mistakes these days so he can't clear the leaderboard like he used to.

Also agreed. Sometimes he tries to make a lot of those shots just because he can, rather than because it's right for the course. Eagle's the prime recent example of what can go right when you harness the aggressiveness a bit. I don't know how he made that shift, but it seems to be working for him.

As far as things going wrong for Paul, I've noticed that too. But I tend to think it's more him being off his game than some kind of random factor. It's hard to stay on top of any sport as long as he has.

 

[DiscJunkie]

I think Jamie (JTacoma03) has hit it right on its proverbial head.
He will not likely ever dominate like he has in the past.
Even Ricky's not dominating like he has over the past couple years.
The game has changed, as Jamie said, and Eagle has changed with it.
I think Paul needs to back off and get smarter and play within his skill set.
WAY TOO MANY OB's, and a lot of them have been silly gambles or crowd pleasing.
With only 3 rounds per tourney, EVERY THROW COUNTS.
He has the ability to win these events, but not every one of them.
It's like in most sports, the goal is to stay near the top of the leaderboard at the end and give your self the opportunity to win.
Look, I'm not saying this to criticize, it's just an observation.
I want Paul to win!

 

[joecoin]

... I mean...cmon..this was Drew's tournament to win. If he didn't mess up some approach shots and a few putts, he would have won. ...

If is one of the biggest words in the English language.

 

[DoWork]

could it be that taller/larger wing-span-ed guys are just throwing more overstable plastic further than paul in mostly open courses so far?

in the case of eagle he seems to have more distance than paul in every shot, sidearm/backhand/roller/grenades/scoobies/thumbers/tomahawks on top of a confident spin putt thrown with massively overstable PD2 compared to paul's destroyers.

ricky seems to be using his physical advantages too (longer wingspan more options with shots).

in these open bomber/windy courses it clearly favors people who throw far with overstable plastic.

cam todd winning gbo 2 years ago was awesome but they did play other courses than the golf course where Todd used a lot of smart golf play to win.

hopefully the vermont courses for worlds will have lots of difficult technical new england woods play that can even out the advantage of slinging massively overstable plastic 500ft on hyzer. thats where paul really shined during his 4x run: being totally versatile in the open/woods/wind/pressure/setbacks/etc.

USDGC seems to weed out cerebral play over pure athleticism.

then again maybe its just eagle's year this year, he seems to be able to play in the woods too.

Were we watching a different GBO?

Drew Gibson @ 5'9" consistently crushed everyone. Height certainly gives an advantage but so does a little muscle mass. It's a give and take, there's more than one way to hyzer a cat.

Paul isn't going anywhere. The only thing that could ever hope to even slow him down is health. He will continue to make adjustments and train to stay on top and I don't know why anybody would think otherwise.

 

[NegaSnapples]

Just wait until the tour takes them out to the east coast into more of the wooded courses. I watched firsthand last year at the PFDO just how good he is on those type of courses. Like another poster said, you'll be eating crow when he takes 1st in one of those events.

 

[VictorB]

Were we watching a different GBO?

Drew Gibson @ 5'9" consistently crushed everyone. Height certainly gives an advantage but so does a little muscle mass. It's a give and take, there's more than one way to hyzer a cat.

Drew has a pretty crazy 'ape ratio' like Koling was saying in Jomez coverage. Sure, he's 5'9" but his wingspan is closer to 6'2". Having highly advantageous levers, plus elite athleticism and perfect timing, then add a little muscle, and you've got an easy recipe for 600'+ for a 5'9" thrower

 

[Moose33]

Paul isn't regressing, the field just got better.

He used to be able to just stay close, and then catch up on the final day. He can't do that anymore. He's good enough I'm sure he will begin to adjust and stay in that top %.

 

[slowplastic]

I still feel like 3+ years ago any time Paul was within 45' I expected it to go in. It's not just that he would dominate the field by an unreasonable amount of strokes, but I expected every single putt from everywhere to go in. Two years ago I expected the same out of Ricky. I feel like I see more misses in one tournament now than I saw over a season then. I am not saying they aren't good putters now, just they were unbelievable when they were each dominating to the point where everyone else felt like they would hit everything. I'm sure it messed with competitors knowing that they had no chance.

If either of them hits everything now they will still win, but if they don't...now there is very very good competition at the top who can play 3 rounds a tournament.

 

[Shamis]

I don't think Mcbeth will ever dominate like he did a few years ago, but that's not because he's getting worse, it's because everybody else got a lot better. At any major tournament these days it's going to be a toss up between mcbeth, wysocki, lizotte, and eagle. Each player has strengths that make them slightly better on certain courses, but overall I'd expect Mcbeth to see plenty more big wins.

 

[onemilemore]

1030 before 1050 is a bit of a hot take. He hasn't been rated lower than 1040 since he won his first worlds, which includes during the worst of his injuries.

My take is that he's just too aggressive all of the time. The meta game is changing, course design is changing, etc. His round ratings seem (to the eye, haven't run a model) to be still at that elite 1% level, but people have learned to how to counter punch him.

He's playing like Simon used to, trying to throw highlight rounds. There are just too many more players who are making him pay for mistakes these days so he can't clear the leaderboard like he used to.

Whoa if this guy is calling something a hot take then it is indeed scalding.

Here's the deal with McBeth: He's like the Ricky Bobby of disc golf. You think he goes OB four times in the final round if he isn't trying to come back and win? He makes those aggressive moves because he is the epitome of "If you ain't first, you're last." Coming in 11th is like coming in 2nd for him. He's the one player who the cash isn't really important for, so he goes out in a blaze of glory.

Additionally, his putt is off and he knows it. He already fixed some things after going back to watch video (talked about it with him before round 3) and went from 82% in round 1 to averaging 93.5% in rounds 2 and 3. If he hits a couple more of those in round 1 it's a different story. He just finished moving into a house and should have more time to commit to practicing now, too.

Am I making excuses for him? No. Just articulating that he is human and maybe hasn't been as focused on disc golf 24/7 like we expect him to be. But that doesn't mean he's tanking. Plus, he gets to go to Masters Cup in a few weeks, where he is utterly dominant. I'm looking forward to him tweaking some things in between now and then and getting back on the right track.

 

[slowplastic]

Additionally, his putt is off and he knows it. He already fixed some things after going back to watch video (talked about it with him before round 3) and went from 82% in round 1 to averaging 93.5% in rounds 2 and 3.

Drew needs to do the same...his balance is way wonky in his putt. If he becomes consistent in the circle then that'll be another constant threat of winning at any open course tournament. Actually he's already a threat of winning, but he'll be a threat of running away with some of them.

 

[Grippenripp]

If drew cleans up on the dance floor and works just a little bit on his touch game everyone is in danger. Donr forget he came up young right behind Mcbeth.

 

[runningDoc]

Were we watching a different GBO?

Drew Gibson @ 5'9" consistently crushed everyone. Height certainly gives an advantage but so does a little muscle mass. It's a give and take, there's more than one way to hyzer a cat.

Paul isn't going anywhere. The only thing that could ever hope to even slow him down is health. He will continue to make adjustments and train to stay on top and I don't know why anybody would think otherwise.

the thread topic is about paul, but if you want to lump Drew into it you can.

drew doesn't have as good of a sidearm as eagle or ricky. also drews putting was great but still not enough compared to eagle/ricky.

there are guys that can throw just as far or further as eagle or simon backhand. but can they throw 450ft sidearms? it's hard to compete when you have to finesse a 450ft flex/turnover compared to someone who can just sidearm a 450ft hyzer as an option too.

ricky constantly sidearmig that harp 250ft and eagle sidearming epic upshots with his gator just seems like another weapon backhand dominate players are disadvantaged to.

i do love it when old school players like brinster/cam todd/ shultz/johansen/conrad still can win using touch turnovers in lieu of sidearms.

paul does have a totally modern game though, he and ricky are the new school prototypes and eagle looks like the 2.0 version a lot of the time.

 

[onemilemore]

Whoa if this guy is calling something a hot take then it is indeed scalding.

Here's the deal with McBeth: He's like the Ricky Bobby of disc golf. You think he goes OB four times in the final round if he isn't trying to come back and win? He makes those aggressive moves because he is the epitome of "If you ain't first, you're last." Coming in 11th is like coming in 2nd for him. He's the one player who the cash isn't really important for, so he goes out in a blaze of glory.

Additionally, his putt is off and he knows it. He already fixed some things after going back to watch video (talked about it with him before round 3) and went from 82% in round 1 to averaging 93.5% in rounds 2 and 3. If he hits a couple more of those in round 1 it's a different story. He just finished moving into a house and should have more time to commit to practicing now, too.

Am I making excuses for him? No. Just articulating that he is human and maybe hasn't been as focused on disc golf 24/7 like we expect him to be. But that doesn't mean he's tanking. Plus, he gets to go to Masters Cup in a few weeks, where he is utterly dominant. I'm looking forward to him tweaking some things in between now and then and getting back on the right track.

Self-quoting to confirm that I didn't steal the Ricky Bobby thing from Ian at CCDG, lol. I'm sure he's said it before, but just heard him say it on the round 3 coverage. I'm going with a great minds situation.