Sorry for the thread drift, #shortpeopledefensiveness lol
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Alas poor MacBeth, we hardly knew ye
- Thread starter VLaForce2002
- Start date
Sorry for the thread drift, #shortpeopledefensiveness lol
I actually think Paul is throwing farther than he used to on golf lines. If you watch a hole where everyone gets off the tee clean, he's really not far back of the people we perceive to have significantly "bigger" arms.
His putt is the biggest delta...and at this point I think he's healed physically from his injuries, but he hasn't proven that he's mentally got it back yet. He has flashes of McB34st brilliance, but in both PDGA and PGA competition it's easy to see the effects of not being 100% confident standing over a putt (even if you're telling the media you are).
Self-quoting to confirm that I didn't steal the Ricky Bobby thing from Ian at CCDG, lol. I'm sure he's said it before, but just heard him say it on the round 3 coverage. I'm going with a great minds situation.
Nah you probably stole it from me. I've been saying it since '15.
HOW'S THAT FOR YOUR HOT TAKE STEVE??
<3<3The OP is right, he's clearly not the same guy anymore......
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I'm not gonna read through this, but I wonder how Paul, and James are going to do when we move from the open courses to the technical courses? Eagle will lose ground, maybe Simon, and the Nate Sextons of the world will look better.
jrodkelly1
Newbie
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2017
- Messages
- 10
Wait until the tour starts hitting up the west coast. If he doesn't win one of those tournaments then you may be on to something. I bet he wins on the west coast at least twice this year. BSF and Masters Cup.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Masters Cup wouldn't surprise me. He usually tears DeLa up and the layout at the ball golf course isn't your typical wide open bomber course...
:thmbup: I don't recall who all played at Idlewild last year, but Paul and hole #1 is a great example of this!!! WOW!!!! :thmbup:
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
The double circle 5 he took on the 950+ hole is pretty telling also...
onemilemore
* Ace Member *
Just because I like playing devil's advocate:
- Eagle grew up in Colorado. I hear they have trees there.
- Simon in 2017 on "technical" courses: 2nd (PFDO), 7th (Vibram), 2nd (HOFC)
- Nate Sexton's career-best finish at DeLa: 6th, last year. He does fare better at Beaver State.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Perception vs fact is always a win for the fact. Based on historical performances, overall, I'd argue that McBeth has performed better than Eagle and Simon on technical courses. Past performance is not an indicator of future performance.
I don't think anyone will argue that Conrad isn't a master of technical courses. Okay, so I was wrong about Nate, but I admit to some bias.If you argue the point that Eagle has gone through a maturation and is making better decisions, and that may include how he approaches technical courses, I'll concede the point. The same for Simon.
I'd argue that success in this sport, or any sport for that matter, comes down to focus, especially under pressure. I will argue that the physical skills of the top thirty players are probably pretty equivalent, in or out of the woods, but that in the past Paul's mental game was better. Ricky matched that first, and now a number of players are honing their mental games to a peak.
The differences in distance aren't what gives the win, please see Cam Todd at Waco. The key is making your shots and putts and managing the course. Technical courses typically require more course management, and Simon and Eagle have not shown that ability to my expectations as of yet. I hope that they have gained that expertise since it's darned exciting.
I would concede the point that Paul's mental game is off, IMO. 10 OBs at GBO demonstrate that to me. Will he get his focus back? Tiger never did.
VLaForce2002
Par Member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2017
- Messages
- 182
This is the precise anxiety that prompted this thread. However, their situations are very, very different. My opinion is, Paul is a much more stable and stand up guy....I would concede the point that Paul's mental game is off, IMO. 10 OBs at GBO demonstrate that to me. Will he get his focus back? Tiger never did.
BlueMonk
Par Member
I'm a disc golf noob. But I'm pretty handy with analytics in other sports.
I don't know when UDisc started recording all the data they use now, but I would love to see a statistical analysis of where Paul's game is different now than it was four or five years ago. And whether Paul is performing worse or "everyone else" has caught up to him (I find the latter really unlikely).
My hunch is his circle one and circle two putting is down since his injury a couple years ago. I wonder love to see data that proves, or disproves, that. And I'd love to crunch the numbers to see how he would have finished in 2016–2018 tournaments if we replaced his actual putting percentages with his historical averages from the preceding years, say 2012–2015. Hunch #2: We might not be having this conversation.
Paul is in the athletic prime of his career. I don't think a major adjustment is needed for him to be right on top again.
I don't know when UDisc started recording all the data they use now, but I would love to see a statistical analysis of where Paul's game is different now than it was four or five years ago. And whether Paul is performing worse or "everyone else" has caught up to him (I find the latter really unlikely).
My hunch is his circle one and circle two putting is down since his injury a couple years ago. I wonder love to see data that proves, or disproves, that. And I'd love to crunch the numbers to see how he would have finished in 2016–2018 tournaments if we replaced his actual putting percentages with his historical averages from the preceding years, say 2012–2015. Hunch #2: We might not be having this conversation.
Paul is in the athletic prime of his career. I don't think a major adjustment is needed for him to be right on top again.
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McBeth is averaging 1041 this year.
McMahon is averaging 1054 this year.
McMahon is averaging 1054 this year.
SD86
Banned
Since 2016 Worlds, it seems that McBeth has a relatively large number of OBs in a number of tournaments, and that has cost him... see this year's GBO as an example. I know, I know, he has that "all out" style, but Ricky won the 2016 Worlds going away due to his smart play, while Paul took what wee IMHO unnecessary chances leading to OBs. I'm not saying Paul should become Sexton-"ish", just that some of this chancy play has not worked out, for whatever reason.
And yes, Eagle and Simon are coming on strong and catching up (if not caught up) with Paul and Ricky. And others are getting up there. But Paul is not finished, barring a bad injury.
I'm much more concerned with Catrina Allen's drop-off in play, but I'll find a Catrina thread to elaborate on that...
And yes, Eagle and Simon are coming on strong and catching up (if not caught up) with Paul and Ricky. And others are getting up there. But Paul is not finished, barring a bad injury.
I'm much more concerned with Catrina Allen's drop-off in play
, but I'll find a Catrina thread to elaborate on that...If Paul plays under his ability...with today's competition...he's not going to win. The odds of Eagle, Simon, Ricky, all playing under their ability at the same time is slim to none. With that said... it's a pretty cool time to witness disc golf at the highest level because any of those players mentioned can win. Add in Nate(s), Conrad, Nikko, GG, etc, and it's even more dynamic at the top.
That is an amazing performance on that hole. However, crushing a single hole like that (or even multiple holes) doesn't get you tourney wins. If Paul had been consistently executing at that level for the entire GBO then we'd be having a very different conversation.
In reality, that video is just showing one side of the coin. Highly aggressive play can get you highlights but it can also cause unforced errors. I feel like a few years ago Paul was just as aggressive, but maybe making fewer mistakes.
(Now don't chalk me up as a McBeth hater; very much the opposite. Just trying to be realistic. I do like seeing the guy tear it up, and I honestly think he's in contention for absolutely any tournament he plays. Dude is far from obsolete. However, that's still a step back from a few years ago, when it was sometimes fair to wonder whether the rest of the field even had a shot.)
I do think that the game has changed to some extent. There's a growing field of people who have a shot to beat Paul any given round. That depth of competition would lengthen the odds on anyone, but it's especially damaging when compounded with the "Ricky Bobby" mentality.
Not saying that Paul's mental game necessarily needs an adjustment. It's a question of priorities. He's demonstrated that in many cases, he's willing to swing for the fences, even at the risk of losing even more ground to the field. His rating would probably be better if he was interested in playing "smart" to defend a 3rd place finish (or 5th place, or whatever). Again, priorities. A player with that attitude can sure be fun to watch and root for.
Pfft, evergreens barely count. Deciduous trees of the Southeast are the greatest arbiters of disc golf greatness.
dehaas
* Ace Member *
I agree 100%, have a day where you're not spot on and chances are somebody else is on fire and gonna be tough to beat. Makes for much better tournament video viewing than seeing a final round victory lap like the couple years Ricky and Paul totally pwned everyone.
As far as Eagle and Simon taking their games a bit more conservative, I think Paul's game is just as aggressive if not more, it just doesn't look the same. Instead of throwing insane looking high lines over the top of everything he pushes the limit of course OB in order to shave distance off of the hole. There were several instances in last year's Ledgestone videos where they talk about him getting extra distance off the tee because he cut the OB more aggressively than everybody else. Those look like bad breaks or whatever but when something backfired for Eagle or Simon it's just a silly trick shot that went bad.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Lets see if he can keep it going for two more rounds...
