Am to Open: What Rating?

[Norcal]

Open is a pro division. Pro is a separate classification from Am, not a division above Am1. While your scenario is theoretically possible, its simply not reality, as there are currently only two 1000+ rated Ams in the entire world and only seven rated 990+.

Practically speaking, open is the division above am1, because am1 players "move up" to open when they surpass the skill of their am1 competitors. Alternatively, they are pressured to move up when other players feel they are too skilled to play am. I can understand why a 970 rated am may be reluctant to play open when his realistic best outcome is bottom cash. On the other hand, I dont understand why am1 is the only unprotected amateur division. It may become a bigger issue in the future if AMs choose not to make the jump. Per the poll, several people believe that AMs ought never move to open.

 

[DocHaole]

In some areas, the Open players range from 925-975. A 930 player can cash and still play Am at bigger events when he travels. .

Where is this?? I need to take a road trip and go bag open.

 

[thechamp]

Where is this?? I need to take a road trip and go bag open.

+1
If you move up to open and never cash no one cares, no cash no plastic nothing. It's just more for everyone else. :hfive:

 

[mashnut]

Practically speaking, open is the division above am1, because am1 players "move up" to open when they surpass the skill of their am1 competitors. Alternatively, they are pressured to move up when other players feel they are too skilled to play am. I can understand why a 970 rated am may be reluctant to play open when his realistic best outcome is bottom cash. On the other hand, I dont understand why am1 is the only unprotected amateur division. It may become a bigger issue in the future if AMs choose not to make the jump. Per the poll, several people believe that AMs ought never move to open.

Think of advanced as an open amateur division. No other sport forces players to jump from playing amateur to pro because of their skill level. I'm not a high rated advanced player, but it doesn't bother me when the people who like to play in advanced with a higher rating than mine beat me. I think the move to pro is one that depends on your personal situation and the competition level in your area and pressuring people to make that jump just because they're better than you is petty.

 

[DagG]

Maybe I've not gotten far enough into my morning coffee but...

Open is open.

There are protected divisions by age and gender but those aside, it is open to whomever cares to come out and test their skills against all comers. As has been mentioned, local prejudices will often dictate when social pressures will move one into open but those aside, 970 is a fair point. One comes to a point where they really don't need anymore plastic but still may be deterred from entering Open by the higher fees often associated with entrance to the division. Personal call.

 

[wake911]

Playing in Open just isn't a skill level issue, it is also a competitive mind set issue.

Every Open division tournament i have played has been less fun than AM division, even if its at the same event. The open is a cut throat world, where as most of the AM events are still about fun. Yes you want to win, but it is still camaraderie playing. (I've done well and horrible in both divisions, so it's not all just about my winning/not winning in either division, maybe this would change after more events with the open players, i don't know)

So in that respect, if you don't want to play open, I don't care. Play until you are a 1040 rated AM. I'll probably learn something if i get to play with you. If you don't like it, get better yourself, or move up away from them.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

Playing in Open just isn't a skill level issue, it is also a competitive mind set issue.

Every Open division tournament i have played has been less fun than AM division, even if its at the same event. The open is a cut throat world, where as most of the AM events are still about fun. Yes you want to win, but it is still camaraderie playing. (I've done well and horrible in both divisions, so it's not all just about my winning/not winning in either division, maybe this would change after more events with the open players, i don't know)

So in that respect, if you don't want to play open, I don't care. Play until you are a 1040 rated AM. I'll probably learn something if i get to play with you. If you don't like it, get better yourself, or move up away from them.

Pro is still pretty fun to play. You can have a good time and joke with the guys in your group. You just need to be able to switch the competitive focus on and off. Maybe you just have really unfun pros around your area.

Also that Phillip Bartholomew took cash in november I think so he is no longer an Am.

 

[wake911]

Pro is still pretty fun to play. You can have a good time and joke with the guys in your group. You just need to be able to switch the competitive focus on and off. Maybe you just have really unfun pros around your area.

And i've only done it twice, so i was still the "Odd guy out" all the other open players play against each other at each tourney. But still could be a reason some might keep playing AM. I'm actually planning to play Open once i'm done at Bowling Green this year. I'm tired of winning plastic (when i place) and then having to sell it due to not being anything I throw. So the chance at cash instead appeals to me. And after a few more rounds, i should be "in" the open crew, if for no reason other than giving them money

 

[garublador]

Once you get above a certain rating then you don't get protected because of your skill anymore. When you get to AM1 is when that happens. You then get to decide if you want to stay an amateur or go pro (which technically you can do whenever you want.)

For some reason disc golfers all seem to believe that they deserve a chance to win no matter how much they suck. At some point you just have to suck it up and get better if you want to win.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

But people better than me keep beating me. It's not fair.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Once you get above a certain rating then you don't get protected because of your skill anymore. When you get to AM1 is when that happens. You then get to decide if you want to stay an amateur or go pro (which technically you can do whenever you want.)

For some reason disc golfers all seem to believe that they deserve a chance to win no matter how much they suck. At some point you just have to suck it up and get better if you want to win.

so, in your scenario. once you are 935. which is a very average dger. you are no longer protected? that is just plain stupid. if your scenario were to make sense. they should just add in one more division. have it start at 965 or 970. that would make more sense. then you could stay am all your life and nobody would give a ****. except those rated over 965.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

That's not really Garu's scenario, its more like how it works right now. You aren't protected once you reach Am1. No one can force those higher rated players to move up.

 

[JAKE master]

For some reason disc golfers all seem to believe that they deserve a chance to win no matter how much they suck. At some point you just have to suck it up and get better if you want to win.

interesting point. no one likes a sand bagger. everyone likes to win. but you only deserve to win if you pull a couple good rounds together, not because you have throbbing desire

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

That's not really Garu's scenario, its more like how it works right now. You aren't protected once you reach Am1. No one can force those higher rated players to move up.

Which is why its flawed. Create an Elite Am level. Problem solved

 

[spikodelhyzer]

It doesn't seem flawed to me. You can only sub-divide so many times before you starting getting divisions that are too small.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

It doesn't seem flawed to me. You can only sub-divide so many times before you starting getting divisions that are too small.

they either need to extend the intermediate up to 950. or add a division at 970. it would be called Elite Awesome AMS for lyfe! what would prob happen is those Elite Ams would end up moving up. because they wouldnt be able to take big pots of discs from lowly rated MA1s. i think of the guy who plays great in his first tournament in Rec. and shoots two rds in the 940s. well. once he gets a rating, assuming he doesnt play any other tournaments, he is now forced into ADV with people who have been playing for years and are seasoned tournament players. how much "fun" is he going to have.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Here is an honest breakdown that makes sense. why did they make int such a small rating group. make them all 50pts.

Novice- <850

Rec <900

Int <950

Open Am - ANYBODY

 

[garublador]

so, in your scenario. once you are 935. which is a very average dger. you are no longer protected? that is just plain stupid. if your scenario were to make sense. they should just add in one more division. have it start at 965 or 970. that would make more sense. then you could stay am all your life and nobody would give a ****. except those rated over 965.

I'm not arguing for any specific rating at which that should happen. In fact, I'm not a fan of any ratings protected divisions or of amateurs having the chance to win anything but a trophy. You want to win stuff? Get better. Sucking a specific amount isn't a good enough accomplishment to deserve to win anything, IMO. If you want a place where you can play only people who suck as much as you then join or start a local league. That's what they're for.

I'm just saying that there is, and should be a non ratings protected division for amateurs.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

If you extend Int up to 950, the 910-900 rated players would be in a crappy position you talk about low rated Adv players being in. If you created another higher level of Am, it would just be a couple of people you want to filter out of a division.

Of course the difference between a 970 and a 940 rated player is like 3 strokes a round on average so it is not like there is some crazy discrepancy going on in adv. If a 940 rated player wants to compete with that 970 rated player, they should figure out where they are giving up those three strokes a round and fix it.

If a dude gets rated 940 after his first tourney, he might be stuck in Adv for a couple of tourneys but if he is really a rec rated player, he will shoot to his rating and go down to where he should be. I have no idea what that example has to do with what we are talking about but something something statistics small sample size etc.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

I'm not arguing for any specific rating at which that should happen. In fact, I'm not a fan of any ratings protected divisions or of amateurs having the chance to win anything but a trophy. You want to win stuff? Get better. Sucking a specific amount isn't a good enough accomplishment to deserve to win anything, IMO. If you want a place where you can play only people who suck as much as you then join or start a local league. That's what they're for.

I'm just saying that there is, and should be a non ratings protected division for amateurs.

ok. i dont disagree with that. my issue is that intermediates who are really intermediates get pushed up at 935, which is really not an advanced players rating. but people can hang around and dominate these guys till they are blue in the face. I think a 950 starting point would help protect those who are new, and wont change those who want to move ups mind.