Am to Open: What Rating?

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

If you extend Int up to 950, the 910-900 rated players would be in a crappy position you talk about low rated Adv players being in. If you created another higher level of Am, it would just be a couple of people you want to filter out of a division.

Of course the difference between a 970 and a 940 rated player is like 3 strokes a round on average so it is not like there is some crazy discrepancy going on in adv. If a 940 rated player wants to compete with that 970 rated player, they should figure out where they are giving up those three strokes a round and fix it.

If a dude gets rated 940 after his first tourney, he might be stuck in Adv for a couple of tourneys but if he is really a rec rated player, he will shoot to his rating and go down to where he should be. I have no idea what that example has to do with what we are talking about but something something statistics small sample size etc.

the difference is that the people that are 945-949 are going to get better and have to move up. as it stands a player who is 935 could play against a 997 rated am. thats 6 strokes per rd. Im also for the trophy only Am system. and not Baskets as trophies. actual little plastic discers. that would motivate everyone to move up.

 

[jcrab66]

I'm not a high rated advanced player.

move up bagger!

 

[Dan H.]

The PDGA has a suggested minimum rating of 970 for MPO. So I would start there. However, if you're 960 and you've won more than 3 tourneys in ADV in your area in 1 year, it's probably time to move up and you are bagging. Unless it's sanctioned, because that's almost a life changing commitment since you can't move back to AM in a sanctioned tournament once you've accepted money. As far as moving INT up to a max of 950, I don't know what it's like in other places, but in central Oklahoma, intermediate is the largest division already. Expanding it would make it a giant mudhole that takes a long time to move out of and would be really frustrating for a lot of people.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

the difference is that the people that are 945-949 are going to get better and have to move up. as it stands a player who is 935 could play against a 997 rated am. thats 6 strokes per rd. Im also for the trophy only Am system. and not Baskets as trophies. actual little plastic discers. that would motivate everyone to move up.

Well you can't change the whole division system because a dude might play against one of like 6 people in the world rated 990+ in adv.

I like trophy only but I think the payout system is too ingrained in the disc golf tourney scene to change right now.

The PDGA has a suggested minimum rating of 970 for MPO. So I would start there. However, if you're 960 and you've won more than 3 tourneys in ADV in your area in 1 year, it's probably time to move up and you are bagging. Unless it's sanctioned, because that's almost a life changing commitment since you can't move back to AM in a sanctioned tournament once you've accepted money. As far as moving INT up to a max of 950, I don't know what it's like in other places, but in central Oklahoma, intermediate is the largest division already. Expanding it would make it a giant mudhole that takes a long time to move out of and would be really frustrating for a lot of people.

Int around here used to be the largest, then a bunch of guys moved up to adv. Then some of those guys moved on to pro and adv stayed large. Now that worlds came and went, Adv is starting to empty out as people move up to pro or kinda get burned out and Int is becoming the big division around here again. It's a cycle.

 

[CarRamRod]

I went with 970 I feel like when you reach that level its hard when playing with other players of that level to improve any more. I moved to open when I was 965 and have slowly moved up every update since currently 983 rated.

It's sad that here in Oklahoma we have a 1000 rated Am. And a lot of people have decided to either bag down or even quit playing because they don't feel they stand a chance in Am. Does any other state have anyone that's 1000 rated and has refused to make the jump? What do you all think should be done about a 1000 rated golfer playing for plastic?

 

[Cgkdisc]

The conflict is whether Advanced should be a protected division or not? Most players are really amateurs for life so it makes sense there's no cap on ratings forcing a player to turn pro. No sport requires amateurs to turn pro. Unlikely to happen in disc golf.

 

[The Hammer]

I really don't care if someone is bothered by this statement, but if you are rated over 980 and still playing as an AM, I have zero respect for you. The only exceptions are if you have only 1 or 2 tournaments in your rating where you played unusually well. I find that these "super-AMs" have egos and pride issues that are directly related to their need to win. Even if that means winnning against people that are of lesser ability. It's sad really.

 

[General Scales]

I think that one should move to Open when they feel they are going to be competitive there. I know that I would've cashed twice this year in Open if I had played it. Consistency issues kept me from playing that way so I am going to play it next year. The only way to get better is to play against better opponents.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

Wiggins jr was a 1000+ rated Am for some of the year he won like every major Am event. I don't see why one dude would make people quit playing, he can't take every spot on the leaderboard.

 

[garublador]

What do you all think should be done about a 1000 rated golfer playing for plastic?

Stop giving amateurs prizes that are worth money (which is basically the same as giving them money). If you want to win stuff you have to be a pro.

 

[BionicRib]

Sucking a specific amount isn't a good enough accomplishment to deserve to win anything.

LOL.....Can I use that line?

.....If you made the am divisions trophy only I doubt you would see as many players out there, unless you dropped the entry fees considerably.

 

[Teh_Wood]

Screw a rating.... MOve up when you want to realize your actual talent for this sport. You will NEVER get any better playing with players that arent equal to or better than you in skill. Hear me know, Believe me later.

 

[garublador]

Even if that means winnning against people that are of lesser ability.

So you're only allowed to beat people that are better than you? Does that mean we need a different division for every single person because otherwise you might have to compete against someone who might be better than you? Should we just not keep score and give everyone participation certificates because otherwise the people who aren't as good won't be sad about getting beat by people who are better? Why even bother getting better or keeping score if ability isn't part of the equation? Isn't the whole point of tournaments to find out who's the best player? Why wouldn't the best players be allowed to play against people who aren't as good. Beating other people is how we know they're the best players.

 

[The Hammer]

So you're only allowed to beat people that are better than you? Does that mean we need a different division for every single person because otherwise you might have to compete against someone who might be better than you? Should we just not keep score and give everyone participation certificates because otherwise the people who aren't as good won't be sad about getting beat by people who are better? Why even bother getting better or keeping score if ability isn't part of the equation? Isn't the whole point of tournaments to find out who's the best player? Why wouldn't the best players be allowed to play against people who aren't as good. Beating other people is how we know they're the best players.

I think you are misunderstanding my point, so I guess I didn't phrase it very well. I actually totally agree with you. These "super-AMs" are purposefully avoiding playing against the best, because they only want to win. Therefore they stay in a division that will allow them to do so, because they only have to beat the average golfers. When they win, they feel good, like they have actually accomplished something. In actuality, they are just proving that the easiest way to win is by hiding from the best. They are pussies.

 

[BionicRib]

Im currently a 943 rated player.......I've played one open tournament in the Northern Illinois area. I was one stroke out of cash. Mostly I play advanced (a few intermediate last year after recovering from major surgery) Some players in my area who play advanced are rated higher than 970, but you won't hear me crying about it. Most of those guys are kids (21 or under). Some are in college and play disc golf and or other sports in college. I'm a pretty competitive person (stubborn too) and I would never call one of those guys baggers. I'm not 100% sure, but I know there are some NCAA guidelines for athletes being able to take money for playing another sport.

I think moving to open should always be a personal decision. And too bad if that pisses some people off. On the other side of it. I think if you want to become a better player you need to play against better players. Thats how the system works IMO. If you're 25 years old and over 1000 then its probably time to move up. If you're 16 and 1000 rated........play am till you are mature enough to move up. If you're 935 and playing AM 1 and a couple young 970-1000 rated players are sticking it to you everytime.......please don't whine about it, find a way to beat them......work harder. Less talky more fetchy......and for gosh sakes have some dignity.

 

[garublador]

LOL.....Can I use that line?

Go right ahead. I'll warn you that I've used it many times in the past and it doesn't appear to be very convincing.

If you made the am divisions trophy only I doubt you would see as many players out there, unless you dropped the entry fees considerably.

That's the argument you always hear but I don't buy it. It's a bit obvious that it would either be cheaper or you'd get a better player's pack. It doesn't make sense to just give that extra money that uses to go to prized anywhere else.

If not winning dissuaded people then all of those little kids that played in the same M:TG tournaments and pro-tour qualifiers I did who had no chance of winning wouldn't come back for every single tournament, but strangely enough they did. I played in many tournaments I knew I had no chance of winning. When I played club volleyball in jr high and high school we had no chance of winning prizes (I think I got a tee shirt for winning state) but we spent our own money traveling to tournaments. I played in band in high school and jr. high and there were several years where we won every competition we went to and it only cost me money. We had fund raisers and I even got a part time job to pay for travel expenses. Yet somehow if we don't offer $50 in discs to people who suck a specific amount then people won't be willing to play in tournaments. In college I played several seasons of intramural broom ball, volleyball and Ultimate but never had the chance to win more than a tee shirt. Strangely enough all of these organizations still exist and appear to be doing well despite the idea that they'll fail because amateurs who suck a specific amount (or not at all in some cases) can't win money/prizes.

It's not scientific or anything, but that's my personal experience with organized competition. Most amateurs don't compete for prizes and money, they play for fun. If that weren't true on some level then I wouldn't have had any of the experiences I've had with organized competition.

 

[garublador]

In actuality, they are just proving that the easiest way to win is by hiding from the best. They are pussies.

Just like every other single person playing in a ratings protected division.

 

[The Hammer]

Just like every other single person playing in a ratings protected division.

Basically, yeah.

However, there is a big difference when someone is sandbagging an AM division when they have proven time and time again that they are much better than the rest of the division. They just refuse to move up, because they are scared that they can't cut it.

 

[BionicRib]

Just like every other single person playing in a ratings protected division.

LOL......you hit the nail again

Complaining about "super ams" not moving up makes you no different from them.IMO

 

[The Hammer]

LOL......you hit the nail again

Complaining about "super ams" not moving up makes you no different from them.IMO

I'm not complaining about them. I'm just saying I have no respect for them. I think they are pussies.