Amateur Tournament Series

[discgolftom]

Thinking these standard PDGA Divisions should work in the Qualifiers:

Advanced - 935> PDGA Player Rating.

Recreational - <900 PDGA Player Rating

Novice - <850 DGA Player Rating

Handicap the Championship. Not sure how - but thinking - .1 Stroke per 1 Rating point.

Handicap is not available to any Player that has a PDGA Rating of 935 or greater -or- no PDGA rating at all.

Example - a Novice player with a 800 Rating competing against the highest Rated Players above them would get .1 Stoke deducted for every 1 Rating Point of those above them.

Example - Player A, who finishes with the lowest overall gross score of 50 and has a PDGA Rating of 950 turns in a card @ 50. Player B with a PDGA Rating of 800 turns in a card @ 66. There is a 150 point difference -or- 15 strokes.

Handicaps do not apply to the the Top 4 Places.

Thoughts?

 

[DiscFifty]

those in the game for money. seem to be less vested in my interests as a player.

You mean the TD that shows up with a photocopy of the flyer in a $2.00 frame and calls it a "trophy"? :gross:

 

[DiscFifty]

Thoughts?

Intermediate players rated 900-934?

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

In the future, we will have more divisions - Older, Ladies, etc.

But for now - going to keep it simple and make it work.

I missed this earlier. You aren't going to include female divisions in your sanctioned events? A question to those with TD experience...Is this allowed? I've been poking through the PDGA website for five or ten minutes or so and don't see a quick answer. Can someone declare a sanctioned event to be for guys only? If so, wow...that needs to be changed.

You also haven't said that you're going to abandon the prayer and national anthem, at least not that I've seen yet (maybe I missed this, just saw you say "noted").

So to sum this all up, I assume based on what I've read so far in both threads, you plan to do the following in your PDGA sanctioned event:

Conduct a public Christian prayer - forcing non-Christians into, at best, an awkward situation, or worse, alienation and ostracism - "go get a hot dog".

Conduct a national anthem - making those who question the merit of forced patriotism in a free country also maybe feel awkward or worse...in a sport with strong ties to the counter culture.

Perhaps have Hooters girls on site, representing a corporation whose marketing ploy is to put women on display like livestock as sex playthings.

And worst of all, exclude women from participating in the event! They are allowed to take off a majority of their clothes and fawn about as marketing toys, but not actually play in the event?

Good god, what year is this? Are you aware of the "respectHERgame" movement taking hold in the Disc Golf world right now? Also the Diversify Disc Golf movement?

To say your plan is riddled with bad ideas is an understatement.

You need to slow WAY down and immerse yourself in the culture first, spend a few years playing and volunteering at lots of well-run events, and understand what Disc Golf is actually like.

Maybe you are aiming to cheapen Disc Golf all along, making it like some sort of an American Gladiator/truck rally or something. If so, then yes, scurry off to help ruin some other pastime, please. I'm starting to feel like I need a shower after reading your posts.

But if you're serious about this, you are headed for embarrassing notoriety. Don't say you weren't warned. If you are genuine (it's sometimes hard to tell on the internet) PLEASE slow down and don't make a mockery out of our sport for a cheesy attempt at a quick buck. You'll have vocal detractors for sure with your built-in misogyny. This whole thing looks awful to me.

It's like you're a troll or something.

 

[DavidSauls]

I missed this earlier. You aren't going to include female divisions in your sanctioned events? A question to those with TD experience...Is this allowed? I've been poking through the PDGA website for five or ten minutes or so and don't see a quick answer. Can someone declare a sanctioned event to be for guys only? If so, wow...that needs to be changed.

Yes.

A TD can offer, or not offer, whatever divisions he or she wants. You can run an event with just a single division. You can run one with 2 divisions, just Pros over 50 and Novice. I believe you can still make it strictly ratings-based. Whatever suits.

We used to run a match-play tournament with a single-elimination bracket. There was simply no way to add multiple divisions.

 

[erock216]

I've promoted Baseball, Golf and Poker Tournaments. If we build it and make it exciting AND do as we say we are going to do - it should work. My kids all played Travel Ball - spent way more than $100 + Gas on a Saturday for sure . . .



True. On the Championship part - those that Qualify, can come play a practice round the weekend before if they wish . . .



This is my specialty. In addition - if we do get Sanctioned by the PDGA - then www.discgolfscene.com will be one way to market, in addition to all the other Disc Golf Forums, Social Media pages, etc that I'm finding . . .

We'll make the events a really big deal onsite. Vendors, Games, Music, Contests, Prizes, etc.

Sponsorships, Games, Contests, Concessions, etc is where I will make my money.

#BuildItTheyWillCome

#MakeItGreatTheyWillComeBack

Thanks for the input . . .

Steve Dodge? Is that you? Haha

 

[discgolftom]

Intermediate players rated 900-934?

Someone suggested today that we run Advanced, Intermediate and Rec. Novice players could play up to Rec.

I'll know more when speaking with the PDGA next week.

What do you recommend Disc?

 

[discgolftom]

I missed this earlier. You aren't going to include female divisions in your sanctioned events? A question to those with TD experience...Is this allowed? I've been poking through the PDGA website for five or ten minutes or so and don't see a quick answer. Can someone declare a sanctioned event to be for guys only?

We can only have 2 or 3 Divisions to make this concept work. Ladies may play if they wish in whatever division their PDGA Rating allows.

So to sum this all up, I assume based on what I've read so far in both threads, you plan to do the following in your PDGA sanctioned event:

[1] Conduct a public Christian prayer

[2] Conduct a national anthem

[3] Perhaps have Hooters girls on site,

[4] And worst of all, exclude women from participating in the event! T

1 - Yes. Always have.

2 - See #1

3 - If Hooters becomes a Sponsor, they are free to market their Brand however they wish. Just not on the playing Course. Main Area only.

4 - Ladies may play if they choose.

Good god, what year is this? Are you aware of the "respectHERgame" movement taking hold in the Disc Golf world right now? Also the Diversify Disc Golf movement?

This is simply a sporting event.

You'll have vocal detractors for sure with your built-in misogyny.

built-in misogyny?

Below is the definition of misogyny. That is certainly not me and not my character. Please highlight any post in any thread where I've shown any prejudice?

mi·​sog·​y·​ny | \ mə-ˈsä-jə-nē \

Definition of misogyny

: hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women

 

[Nova P]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[discgolftom]

Take with a grain of salt, since this is coming from someone who doesn't like handicaps:

Talked with a TD today. He made some suggestions that I really like. Not sure if the PDGA will approve the format and sanction the Tournaments - but, won't hurt to ask them.

Southern Classic Tournament

4 - 72 Player Qualifiers, each advancing 18 total Players to the Championship [ 72 Player max ]

Open up registration with 3 standard PDGA Divisions:

Advanced - 935 >

Intermediate - < 935

Recreational - < 900

Max of 72 total Players per Qualifier. Players can "play up" but not "play down".

Let the Divisions fill up on their own - first come - first serve. Minimum of 8 Players per Division. Should a Division not hit the minimum - offer to bump the Player(s) up to next available Division -or- refund their Entry Fee. TD will adjust the Divisions to a number divisible by 4.

Advance 25% of the Players from each Division in the Qualifier to the Championship. Max of 72 Players in Championship. Example: 36 Players register for Advanced, 24 for Int and 12 Rec. In this scenario - 9 Advanced Players + 6 Int Players + 3 Rec Players would advance to the Championship.

Prizes will be paid out to each qualified Division in the Championship based on the # of Players that play in each Qualifier + Championship. If all 4 Qualifiers have 72 Players and there are 72 Players in the Championship - the total Prize Pool will be $16,200 [ 72 Players x $50 x 4 Qualifiers + 72 Players x $50 in Championship = $18,000 x 90% = $16,200 ]

$16,200 would be shared between the Divisions based on the the # of Players in each specific Division.

Example - using the #'s in bold above - There would be 36 Players in the Advanced Division, 24 in Int and 12 in Rec. Advanced Division would receive 50% of total prize pool or $8,100. Intermediate Division - 33.3% or $5,394 and Rec Division 16.7% or $2,705.

Pay out 4 places in all Divisions:

1st = 50% of prize pool

2nd = 25% of prize pool

3rd = 15% of prize pool

4th = 10% of prize pool

Won't be the BIG prize for the Champion that I had imagined. But - we will have still have one of the better Prize Packages in the area.

Thoughts?

 

[DavidSauls]

Thoughts?

It's more likely to work.

If I had to guess, I'd say that that the PDGA will not sanction it, due to the steep payouts, and the fact that qualifiers and finals are linked in one payout scheme. But of course it doesn't hurt to ask, and I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.

The principle of broad but shallow payouts works like this: everyone isn't in reach of a win, but everyone is within reach of the top 50%, so everyone has a chance for some sort of prize. This makes it attractive for more people to register.

The pro divisions do this too, and I recall when a steeper payout was suggested, even the top pros, who ostensibly would have been rewarded, were against it. The reason? In the long run, they realized they were better off making a smaller cut of a big field, than a large cut of a small field, which is what steep payouts may produce.

The other principle of the broad but shallow payouts for Ams is the philosophy that they're amateurs -- they shouldn't be playing for profit. Some take it further, and feel that amateurs shouldn't get anything of value, but that horse has left the barn.

How strongly will the PDGA stick by these principles, or will they grant a waiver? I don't know. Will enough players be enticed by a rich payout to accept a much lower chance of receiving anything? I don't know that, either. There may be enough players who want to play a tournament, any tournament, to fill anyway.

Keep in mind that the share-the-wealth system of broad but shallow payments (half the field gets prizes, but nobody gets too much) has seen disc golf grow rapidly, to the point it's at now.

*

And with that said, a bit of bookkeeping to ponder:

You're proposing that players packs be paid for by sponsors, and entry fees go to prizes.

If entry fees go to players packs, and sponsor money goes to prizes, you may get a similar result in a more palatable form. Because I think the sponsor money can be distributed however you wish.

With the sidebar that I have strong doubts that you can raise serious sponsorship money. There's not much advertising value in a disc golf tournament. But you seem sure that you can, and you'll just need to prove me wrong.

 

[discgolftom]

It's more likely to work.

I'm hopeful it will.

If I had to guess, I'd say that that the PDGA will not sanction it, due to the steep payouts, and the fact that qualifiers and finals are linked in one payout scheme. But of course it doesn't hurt to ask, and I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.

They probably won't - we still have a chance. Will know next week.

But - if they don't, that is one of the reasons that I got the URL of ADGA.Fun - we can be the American Disc Golf Association -or- the Amateur Disc Golf Association. Much rather be a part of the PDGA for sure . . .

The principle of broad but shallow payouts works like this: everyone isn't in reach of a win, but everyone is within reach of the top 50%, so everyone has a chance for some sort of prize. This makes it attractive for more people to register.

The other principle of the broad but shallow payouts for Ams is the philosophy that they're amateurs -- they shouldn't be playing for profit. Some take it further, and feel that amateurs shouldn't get anything of value, but that horse has left the barn.

There are plenty of Tournaments where peeps can play for a Players Pack and a $5 Trophy. We want to be different by offering the larger Prizes.

How strongly will the PDGA stick by these principles, or will they grant a waiver? I don't know.

We'll find out next week.

Will enough players be enticed by a rich payout to accept a much lower chance of receiving anything? I don't know that, either. There may be enough players who want to play a tournament, any tournament, to fill anyway.

In my humble opinion, I doubt we will have any difficulty filling up 4 - 72 Player Qualifiers over a 4 major City target area. I could be wrong. Hopefully not.

And with that said, a bit of bookkeeping to ponder:

You're proposing that players packs be paid for by sponsors, and entry fees go to prizes.

I'm not quite sure how extensive the "Player Packs" will be. I doubt they will have the perceived value of the $50 Entry Fee. But - the purpose of playing in the Qualifier is to have a 1 in 4 chance to advance to a Championship Tournament and try to win some really cool Prizes.

With the sidebar that I have strong doubts that you can raise serious sponsorship money. There's not much advertising value in a disc golf tournament. But you seem sure that you can, and you'll just need to prove me wrong.

We just have to show them value and provide them with a lot of bang for their buck.

I believe we have the Sponsorship Packages priced right. Just have to see if they'll write the check.

Vendor space for $25 per Qualifier -or- $100 for the entire Series will be a HUGE value.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

built-in misogyny?

Below is the definition of misogyny. That is certainly not me and not my character. Please highlight any post in any thread where I've shown any prejudice?

mi·​sog·​y·​ny | \ mə-ˈsä-jə-nē \

Definition of misogyny

: hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women

That's real easy. You are offering no women's division while you are okay with Hooters on the premises at the same time.

https://theconversation.com/whats-the-psychological-toll-of-being-a-hooters-waitress-42576

Women deserve their own divisions in sanctioned events separate from the guys and to not be treated less than human, like they do at Hooters and other trash restaurants like them. Read more about this here, a movement led by some of the sport's top female players:

https://respecthergame.org/about/

Hope this helps, in the event you are actually sincere.

 

[discgolftom]

That's real easy. You are offering no women's division while you are okay with Hooters on the premises at the same time.

Plenty of tournaments don't have a separate Ladies Division. There is a reason why the PDGA titles their Mixed Division as MA1, MA2, etc - it stands for "mixed" - as in Men and Women if they so choose. However - why can't Men play in the FPO, FA1, FA40, etc?

Hooters is a Brand built on great food, awesome drinks and sexy Waitresses. They seem to do hundreds of millions of dollars in sales. p.s. - go in to your local Hooters - I bet there are just as many female customers as male customers.

Women deserve their own divisions in sanctioned events separate from the guys and to not be treated less than human, like they do at Hooters and other trash restaurants like them.

They do have their own Divisions. Divisions that also exclude Men from playing in . . .

Don't Hate - Relate . . .

 

[DiscFifty]

Someone suggested today that we run Advanced, Intermediate and Rec. Novice players could play up to Rec.

I'll know more when speaking with the PDGA next week.

What do you recommend Disc?

Advanced, Intermediate, Rec will work just fine.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Plenty of tournaments don't have a separate Ladies Division. There is a reason why the PDGA titles their Mixed Division as MA1, MA2, etc - it stands for "mixed" - as in Men and Women if they so choose. However - why can't Men play in the FPO, FA1, FA40, etc?

Hooters is a Brand built on great food, awesome drinks and sexy Waitresses. They seem to do hundreds of millions of dollars in sales. p.s. - go in to your local Hooters - I bet there are just as many female customers as male customers.



They do have their own Divisions. Divisions that also exclude Men from playing in . . .

Don't Hate - Relate . . .

Of course you're not sincere. Your tone deafness is off the charts, way past the land of believability.

This is all a farce.

Jay Dub was right.

Troll.

 

[DavidSauls]

Plenty of tournaments don't have a separate Ladies Division. . .

Virtually all of them offer female divisions. Some end up without participants.

 

[discgolftom]

This is all a farce.

Jay Dub was right.

Troll.

Ha - I'll just show ya in April / May - how about that?

 

[discgolftom]

Virtually all of them offer female divisions. Some end up without participants.

I believe it was you that mentioned in a thread you didn't have a Female Division due to bracket play or something.

I don't foresee us having anything but Mixed Divisions in 2021.

 

[DavidSauls]

I believe it was you that mentioned in a thread you didn't have a Female Division due to bracket play or something.

I don't foresee us having anything but Mixed Divisions in 2021.

That's why I said "virtually all". The USDGC is a single-division tournament. Our bracket tournament was a 2-division. Our current team play event is a single-division tournament.

That's rare. I like offering tournaments that are really different from the standard fare, and unfortunately that means not a lot of divisions (no age divisions, no juniors, no ratings-based, etc.).

But other than the USDGC, I don't remember ever seeing a singles-play event that didn't offer or wasn't open to female divisions.

Your plan would actually be a valid reason for not having female divisions -- it depends on having a lot of players in a single division. I have no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that, in the disc golf world, it's unusual to not offer them, and if you see tournament results with no female divisions, its because they didn't register, not because they weren't offered.