Archer vs Arrow: The End of a Debate?

[2naphish]

Toboggan is a temp course and iirc, Discraft brought those baskets to the event last year.

prolly part of his contract, like a bonus

 

[mshelton]

Pretty sure in a interview last year he said his course will have the 18 baskets that he shot -18 at the GLO.

Any idea where this course will be?

 

[rhatton1]

Mold design is a very very complex and difficult process. People who do it for a living still always miss things and struggle at times to do it right. I build injection molds, trust me. The thought that some random joe could do it is both laughable and insulting to those who actually do it . Having a bit of input is one thing, but to call that "design" is wrong. At best you're an advisor.






*Please nobody let it out that I'm actually standing up for engineers.......*

Interesting. Random Joe here sat behind a CAD designer who had never heard of Disc Golf and in 15 minutes asked him to draw up a disc shape and then heighten the wing, flatten the top a bit, increase the bead slightly, change the diameter slightly, add a bit of mass so the SG would give us a weight range we wanted etc to produce what looked on screen a profile of a putter I wanted to throw (somewhere between a Jokeri and a Wizard so admittedly I had some pretty good starting points to go from) and after dropping a few thousand pounds on the mold produced a disc that everyone who's thrown it has loved and pretty much uniformly bagged. Here's former World Record holder Ken Jarvis casually launching one https://www.instagram.com/p/BwiJV6Li1cV/

I would reckon Paul could get behind a designer and from his knowledge of discs get them to recreate something he would expect to work well with a few tweaks on something he already likes. Even if that conversation was as basic as I would like a Destroyer with a bit more dome to get a bit more glide and turn.

That's not disparaging the role of the engineer but R and D on new discs doesn't involve wind tunnels and hitech science, it involves tweaking what's already there with known constants (how wing height, PLH, dome and more are likely to have an effective on flight etc a lot of my known constants were picked up from years of reading on this and other forums)

On the missing things side I was after an easy to throw fairway driver and had specified a 1.7 cms rim in the original brief and just before I was about to approve it noticed the designer had given me a 2.2cms rim, I'm not normally very good at proofing things but got lucky that day!

 

[Casey 1988]

Interesting. Random Joe here sat behind a CAD designer who had never heard of Disc Golf and in 15 minutes asked him to draw up a disc shape and then heighten the wing, flatten the top a bit, increase the bead slightly, change the diameter slightly, add a bit of mass so the SG would give us a weight range we wanted etc to produce what looked on screen a profile of a putter I wanted to throw (somewhere between a Jokeri and a Wizard so admittedly I had some pretty good starting points to go from) and after dropping a few thousand pounds on the mold produced a disc that everyone who's thrown it has loved and pretty much uniformly bagged. Here's former World Record holder Ken Jarvis casually launching one https://www.instagram.com/p/BwiJV6Li1cV/

I would reckon Paul could get behind a designer and from his knowledge of discs get them to recreate something he would expect to work well with a few tweaks on something he already likes. Even if that conversation was as basic as I would like a Destroyer with a bit more dome to get a bit more glide and turn.

That's not disparaging the role of the engineer but R and D on new discs doesn't involve wind tunnels and hitech science, it involves tweaking what's already there with known constants (how wing height, PLH, dome and more are likely to have an effective on flight etc a lot of my known constants were picked up from years of reading on this and other forums)

On the missing things side I was after an easy to throw fairway driver and had specified a 1.7 cms rim in the original brief and just before I was about to approve it noticed the designer had given me a 2.2cms rim, I'm not normally very good at proofing things but got lucky that day!

The Destoryer like disc Paul McBeth is using, the Kong looks like a flatter domed Destroyer with a slightly different wing, more pronouncement. Disc Has to be flatter domed from the stuff I am seeing, the few taller domed discs in videos are more OS and like a 12 speed Nuke OS or a Excalibur/Tee Rex.

 

[Casey 1988]

It is probably part of his contract, like a bonus.

No that seems unlikely. I think that Discraft might give Paul the Baskets be they Discraft or side company DGA basket at dealer/wholesale cost due to how expensive a top level basket is.

 

[kiwichiwi]

Any idea where this course will be?

Virginia. They bought a nice property out there with a lot of land. During the off season they have posted a few videos of them out on the course working on it. They also have built a full gym as well. I think he has said in interviews that he wants to make it a world class course and it seems like he wants a perfect off season training ground as well.

 

[Casey 1988]

Virginia. They bought a nice property out there with a lot of land. During the off season they have posted a few videos of them out on the course working on it. They also have built a full gym as well. I think he has said in interviews that he wants to make it a world class course and it seems like he wants a perfect off season training ground as well.

Sounds like McBeth is making a course and facility for people to get disc golf training at after Paul is done being a touring pro and in the off season for now, with the making of the whole gym facility as well as the course. Might also plan on having some tournaments on the property at some point as well.

 

[mshelton]

Virginia. They bought a nice property out there with a lot of land. During the off season they have posted a few videos of them out on the course working on it. They also have built a full gym as well. I think he has said in interviews that he wants to make it a world class course and it seems like he wants a perfect off season training ground as well.

Just the state name I was hoping to hear, thanks, I'm guessing it's near Lynchburg where he bought a house.

 

[2naphish]

No that seems unlikely. I think that Discraft might give Paul the Baskets be they Discraft or side company DGA basket at dealer/wholesale cost due to how expensive a top level basket is.

i would think that it would be a great investment into the brand , Paul throws Discraft and if you play at his course there will be Discraft baskets. long term i think it would be a wise investment.

but then again i don't really care how he got them. it's just a super cool touch to have as a trophy.

 

[Casey 1988]

i would think that it would be a great investment into the brand , Paul throws Discraft and if you play at his course there will be Discraft baskets. long term i think it would be a wise investment.

but then again i don't really care how he got them. it's just a super cool touch to have as a trophy.

Paul could use the basket he is most comfortable using from DGA/Discraft. I am not sure what that is. I would not be suprised if Paul used the Discraft Basket now that since last year Discraft has had the Chainstar Pro that has the Modern era Disc catcher size bottom. I just hope that Paul does not cheep out and use the Chainstar Lite, that is only Legal for up to a point be it C Tier or B Tier tournaments

 

[Flick Maniac]

While the argument is well made, there is a small counter-argument I'll make here:

Paul McBeth never was happy with his overstable throwing putter/approach disc. Innova made the Aviar3 for him; it wasn't overstable enough. They made the AviarX3 for him; he never quite clicked with it. They made the Rat for him (IMHO just a very slightly longer AvX3); he didn't seem to love it, either.

McBeth also never got quite right with that disc arena which holds the Firebird. He tried the Monster, the FD3, the Sexton Firebird, the regular Firebird, and never seemed to be happy about it.

McBeth goes to Discraft. He is killing it with the Zone. He is loving the Zone, and throwing it on shots he never threw the AvX on.

He did throw the Nova a long way, but rarely threw it to his maximum distances; he is throwing that freakin' Luna pretty much into orbit, and accurately so.

So my counterpoint is that while McBeth could probably throw Franklin discs better than the rest of us can throw anything (okay, maybe Franklin discs are a stretch ), he is really, really clicking with a few of these Discraft discs, once they got them tweaked to 'McBeast Perfection'.

Where is the Discraft Firebird? Is that not a shot he no longer wants or what does he use for it? I remember in one of the first tourneys this year the commentators remarking how other Discraft pros threw the Raptor over and over again but not Paul.

 

[Danderlion]

Where is the Discraft Firebird? Is that not a shot he no longer wants or what does he use for it? I remember in one of the first tourneys this year the commentators remarking how other Discraft pros threw the Raptor over and over again but not Paul.

Seems like he is using a Force for his overstable driver needs but not sure how close that is to a Firebird.

 

[mshelton]

Seems like he is using a Force for his overstable driver needs but not sure how close that is to a Firebird.

It's pretty far away, the Force is a high speed driver, speed 12 if I remember correctly, the Firebird is in the fairway driver speed category.

Discraft had the Predator as their Firebird, in recent years though it's a very different disc, the closest they have now is the Raptor which is very similar to a Firebird, also very similar to their out of production Reaper.

 

[SD86]

Where is the Discraft Firebird? Is that not a shot he no longer wants or what does he use for it? I remember in one of the first tourneys this year the commentators remarking how other Discraft pros threw the Raptor over and over again but not Paul.

Give it time; he'll figure it out. Right now he's still selling putters by throwing the Luna 500+ feet....

 

[numbernine]

Where is the Discraft Firebird? Is that not a shot he no longer wants or what does he use for it? I remember in one of the first tourneys this year the commentators remarking how other Discraft pros threw the Raptor over and over again but not Paul.

The Raptor is definitely that Firebird fit.

And Paul never really threw a lot of Firebirds.

 

[armiller]

Where is the Discraft Firebird? Is that not a shot he no longer wants or what does he use for it? I remember in one of the first tourneys this year the commentators remarking how other Discraft pros threw the Raptor over and over again but not Paul.

Paul was previously throwing the Predator in most spots where he needed a true OS fairway. That being said, it's impressive to me how much his bag is changing from tournament to tournament, while he continues to do extremely well no matter what he's throwing. A regular or staple disc at one tournament will barely be thrown the next event.

 

[Hyzflip10]

Paul was previously throwing the Predator in most spots where he needed a true OS fairway. That being said, it's impressive to me how much his bag is changing from tournament to tournament, while he continues to do extremely well no matter what he's throwing. A regular or staple disc at one tournament will barely be thrown the next event.

That is true for a lot of people. Just depends on the course.