The club's FB page says that four more holes are about to get tee pads poured. That's the best place to get updates and track progress: https://www.facebook.com/groups/HyzerHeine/?fref=nf
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Ask John Houck about Course Design & Development
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The club's FB page says that four more holes are about to get tee pads poured. That's the best place to get updates and track progress: https://www.facebook.com/groups/HyzerHeine/?fref=nf
And here's a Thanksgiving eve photo for fun. And because I'm so grateful for the chance to create this course and to work with all the wonderful people in Carrollton.
I think #12-#14 is my new favorite three-hole stretch. Here's #13 from the Blue/White tee across the pond all the way in the back corner of the park.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Even in the midst of whatever challenges we may have, we all have a lot to be grateful for.
I think #12-#14 is my new favorite three-hole stretch. Here's #13 from the Blue/White tee across the pond all the way in the back corner of the park.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Even in the midst of whatever challenges we may have, we all have a lot to be grateful for.
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I'm happy to do it, Jim. I'm glad people like you find it helpful. Welcome to the thread.
I probably have gotten more good feedback on that column than any other, along with "Dear Diary," which someone referenced recently. I know some people don't appreciate the use of the word "dumb." These days I refer more to avoiding NAGS (Not A Golf Shot) Zones. NAGS is a term that gives more information about the problem, so I suppose it has that advantage.
Drive distances for those divisions would be less in general. But there are Advanced players who throw as far as Pros, but need to improve one or more of the other skills (accuracy, putting, approaching, decision-making) that make a Pro. By the same token, some Intermediate players will have comparable distance to typical Advanced players, but they need to improve in other areas.
As for pro lengths over the last 13 years, I think it's safe to say that driving distances have increased on wide open shots, thanks to improvements in disc technology and technique, as well as increased competitive pressure. I have seen some data Steve West collected from around 2009; don't think I've seen anything more recent. I would not expect driving distance on wooded holes to have increased as much -- on a lot of wooded holes, the faster drivers never make it out of the bag.
Great questions -- hope that helps.
Yeah, and I'm sure it will come up in the future. An important principle worthy of a reminder every now and again.
The last month has been a rainy one in Columbia, and big equipment finally got back on the course today. Best case now is January, but I wouldn't bank on it. Crazy year for rain in that town. But it will be worth the wait. Promise.
The club has an A- Tier scheduled for Strawn in May. Start praying for sun NOW.
Wish I did, Richard. If I have anything, it's in a box somewhere -- maybe some day,
We do need to get those up on the internet one of these days. I do know where those boxes are -- just need to go through them. Glad they're helpful for you.
Avus
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
- Messages
- 302
I am moving to Columbia from Pasadena, CA and of this month and I am pretty excited for this course. Likely a big difference from my play in SoCal.
Justin, I hope you love it. In my opinion, Strawn is as good as any course I've done. After a month of virtually no work due to rain, they were able to make a little progress last week. Thank God t didn't rain the week I was there to work on maps for tee signs.
Here, sadly, is your Strawn update for this week:
Here, sadly, is your Strawn update for this week:
A little bit of news on projects in progress:
The last tee pads are about to be poured in Carrollton; the first tee pads are about to be poured in Live Oak; I've started work on a really nice new tournament-level course in the San Antonio area; Strawn has mostly dried out and will never flood again. (OK, that last part was prediction, not news, and possibly not a realistic prediction.) We'll be holding a C-Tier event March 12th in Llano, Texas in conjunction with their Llano Earth Art Festival. Temp course on a golf course (a golf course on the river with lots of trees).
Also, as many of you know, we did our first ABCD (Art and Business of Course Design) Workshop at Frost Valley in October, and the response was so great that we're doing another one. This one will be at the IDGC February 27-28, and there will also be a C-Tier event that weekend. If you have an interest in course design, we'd love to have you join us.
Here are a few quick comments we received after the last ABCD workshop:
"My brain has not been challenged like that in quite some time. It was great, thank you both."
"'I look at the world differently now. A new found confidence with myself and where I can go & what I am capable of doing are a few things you have both left with me. My mind is swirling with ideas & concepts."
"Thank you for the confidence boost at the Frost Valley seminar. As a result, tonight a proposal of mine was approved with a major budget increase over my prior proposals included. My design fees have tripled … I would not have made the leap in fees without your push, and will actually make real money on a project, above my costs."
"Thank you so much. You two taught me so much in this short time in the magical Catskill mountains. You truly helped me open up my mind to broader horizons and making myself a better person as well as a disc golfer. So, please, John and Dee, keep on teaching the most informative and comprehensive course design available. I intend on seeing you guys in the future."
If you're interested, the information is up at:
http://houckdesign.com/HDW_IDGC_02-2016.php
The last tee pads are about to be poured in Carrollton; the first tee pads are about to be poured in Live Oak; I've started work on a really nice new tournament-level course in the San Antonio area; Strawn has mostly dried out and will never flood again. (OK, that last part was prediction, not news, and possibly not a realistic prediction.) We'll be holding a C-Tier event March 12th in Llano, Texas in conjunction with their Llano Earth Art Festival. Temp course on a golf course (a golf course on the river with lots of trees).
Also, as many of you know, we did our first ABCD (Art and Business of Course Design) Workshop at Frost Valley in October, and the response was so great that we're doing another one. This one will be at the IDGC February 27-28, and there will also be a C-Tier event that weekend. If you have an interest in course design, we'd love to have you join us.
Here are a few quick comments we received after the last ABCD workshop:
"My brain has not been challenged like that in quite some time. It was great, thank you both."
"'I look at the world differently now. A new found confidence with myself and where I can go & what I am capable of doing are a few things you have both left with me. My mind is swirling with ideas & concepts."
"Thank you for the confidence boost at the Frost Valley seminar. As a result, tonight a proposal of mine was approved with a major budget increase over my prior proposals included. My design fees have tripled … I would not have made the leap in fees without your push, and will actually make real money on a project, above my costs."
"Thank you so much. You two taught me so much in this short time in the magical Catskill mountains. You truly helped me open up my mind to broader horizons and making myself a better person as well as a disc golfer. So, please, John and Dee, keep on teaching the most informative and comprehensive course design available. I intend on seeing you guys in the future."
If you're interested, the information is up at:
http://houckdesign.com/HDW_IDGC_02-2016.php
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Long weekend, heading South while it's still cold in WV...
Oh, and disc golf, too.
Gonna have to see if this can work out.
Oh, and disc golf, too.
Gonna have to see if this can work out.
Really excited about Strawn. We just had biblical arc-type rain when Winter Storm Goliath rolled through; if it drained well after all that water the property should be getting in shape.
Oxcart2006
Newbie
As a San Antonio player, I would LOVE some more information about this!
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2009
- Messages
- 3,217
MarkDSM
Double Eagle Member
102g scaled birdie.
Kuzi sends love
Wreck
Par Member
Getting Design Experience w/o Stepping on Toes
Hey John,
First off, though I know you're an incredibly busy guy, I want to thank you for all the time you've taken over the years to field questions on here. I've been helping with the design of a local course, and have read anything and everything I can find (including this entire thread) about your take on course design. I see it's been a while since your last response, so I thought I would throw one up for the next time you come around; it's a bit of a different question though.
I realize this isn't about course design per se, but thought you might have some wisdom to share.
I've been wanting to get into design for quite some time. I get more thrill from the design process than playing anymore. While I've helped with a private course design, and have come up with alternative designs (to existing baskets) on a couple 9 holers in the area, I've not had the opportunity to help in the initial install for a public course. That may be changing soon, but I'm running into some obstacles which are more interpersonal than political/topographical/etc.
We have an older guy that's been a primary designer for most courses installed in the area in the last decade. While he's done a great job, his courses all have a signature "style" (as one would expect) and many of us in the area would like to see a course with a bit of a different "feel" to it--a bit more on the longer, mid 60's par golf side. The issue is, when a new course is in the works, he's the first person getting involved in the process. I totally get it; nobody will argue he's "the guy" in our neighborhood for design and a wealth of knowledge.
However, few of us younger guys (some of our younger club members and myself) want to start gaining some experience, and we're not sure how to go about it. Whenever a new course is approved, whether he's asked or not, he goes about putting together a master layout. While this would be fine as part of a larger collaboration with multiple design proposals, there is this group-think response to his designs that say, well since he's doing this a while, his design must be best. There is seldom any instance where other people are putting together designs, or in the few instances they do, his are adopted without much discussion because of the experience he's gained.
I should be clear--this hasn't happened to me or a design I've proposed--but I am working with him on this current design project. My fear (relevant or not) is that my ideas will get steam-rolled. I already had this happen, to small degree, during a walk-through of the property with this older guy. We met up and showed each other our design ideas, then walking the property, most of the discussion was about his hole ideas and basically dismissed my concept for the course.
I know I'm green and have a lot to learn, but I also feel confident that this is something I can be good at with practice. I need the support of the existing guru though, and don't feel I have it. I'm a bit lost as how to get it too.
I say all this to ask: Do you have any thoughts on how to "break-in" to design? Further, do you have any specific ideas on how to gain the support of my more experienced design partner? (FWIW, there are 1-2 more that will be involved in the design process, but they have yet to develop a layout proposal and may not even get to it).
I understand that his concepts may be better than my own, but I don't know how to get him to entertain new ways of looking at holes. Many of his courses have this very signature feel to them, and there's a growing consensus that we could use new perspectives. I'm in a position to influence, but want to do it in a strategic way.
Thanks in advance!
Hey John,
First off, though I know you're an incredibly busy guy, I want to thank you for all the time you've taken over the years to field questions on here. I've been helping with the design of a local course, and have read anything and everything I can find (including this entire thread) about your take on course design. I see it's been a while since your last response, so I thought I would throw one up for the next time you come around; it's a bit of a different question though.
I realize this isn't about course design per se, but thought you might have some wisdom to share.
I've been wanting to get into design for quite some time. I get more thrill from the design process than playing anymore. While I've helped with a private course design, and have come up with alternative designs (to existing baskets) on a couple 9 holers in the area, I've not had the opportunity to help in the initial install for a public course. That may be changing soon, but I'm running into some obstacles which are more interpersonal than political/topographical/etc.
We have an older guy that's been a primary designer for most courses installed in the area in the last decade. While he's done a great job, his courses all have a signature "style" (as one would expect) and many of us in the area would like to see a course with a bit of a different "feel" to it--a bit more on the longer, mid 60's par golf side. The issue is, when a new course is in the works, he's the first person getting involved in the process. I totally get it; nobody will argue he's "the guy" in our neighborhood for design and a wealth of knowledge.
However, few of us younger guys (some of our younger club members and myself) want to start gaining some experience, and we're not sure how to go about it. Whenever a new course is approved, whether he's asked or not, he goes about putting together a master layout. While this would be fine as part of a larger collaboration with multiple design proposals, there is this group-think response to his designs that say, well since he's doing this a while, his design must be best. There is seldom any instance where other people are putting together designs, or in the few instances they do, his are adopted without much discussion because of the experience he's gained.
I should be clear--this hasn't happened to me or a design I've proposed--but I am working with him on this current design project. My fear (relevant or not) is that my ideas will get steam-rolled. I already had this happen, to small degree, during a walk-through of the property with this older guy. We met up and showed each other our design ideas, then walking the property, most of the discussion was about his hole ideas and basically dismissed my concept for the course.
I know I'm green and have a lot to learn, but I also feel confident that this is something I can be good at with practice. I need the support of the existing guru though, and don't feel I have it. I'm a bit lost as how to get it too.
I say all this to ask: Do you have any thoughts on how to "break-in" to design? Further, do you have any specific ideas on how to gain the support of my more experienced design partner? (FWIW, there are 1-2 more that will be involved in the design process, but they have yet to develop a layout proposal and may not even get to it).
I understand that his concepts may be better than my own, but I don't know how to get him to entertain new ways of looking at holes. Many of his courses have this very signature feel to them, and there's a growing consensus that we could use new perspectives. I'm in a position to influence, but want to do it in a strategic way.
Thanks in advance!
Personally, if you want to learn more, i would consider this an apprenticeship. Learn as much as you can from him. Heck, contact some of the other course designers in your state. Let them know that you would like to travel when they begin to design a course. Even if it is for one day, you can learn quite a bit from a new perspective.
Hey John,
I have a question about designing an entire course around a lake. The pic below features the Blackbear course (we've discussed this one a few times)... this course is in orange. The other course is a future course mockup that I will propose to parks. This mockup only features holes on the East side of the lake. I made basically a figure 8 in order to incorporate fh and bh carries over the water or near the water.
My question is, if we were to try to design the course entirely around the lake, basically one giant 2 mile loop... How would you design the course in order to allow for both fh and bh risk shots?
The only way that I can think to do this is some type of switchback/howdie-do point... but that would be more difficult with the length of the walk around the lake already.
This all of course is farther down the line, however.... there is no time like the present to secure land for the future. We are on very good terms with Parks right now. We are just low on funding. The state park and the state forest split the lake. So, that might make it a little harder to secure all of that lake front. Just trying to gain some knowledge before I present the idea. At the very least, I think that I will gain permission to use this as a temporary course.
I have a question about designing an entire course around a lake. The pic below features the Blackbear course (we've discussed this one a few times)... this course is in orange. The other course is a future course mockup that I will propose to parks. This mockup only features holes on the East side of the lake. I made basically a figure 8 in order to incorporate fh and bh carries over the water or near the water.
My question is, if we were to try to design the course entirely around the lake, basically one giant 2 mile loop... How would you design the course in order to allow for both fh and bh risk shots?
The only way that I can think to do this is some type of switchback/howdie-do point... but that would be more difficult with the length of the walk around the lake already.
This all of course is farther down the line, however.... there is no time like the present to secure land for the future. We are on very good terms with Parks right now. We are just low on funding. The state park and the state forest split the lake. So, that might make it a little harder to secure all of that lake front. Just trying to gain some knowledge before I present the idea. At the very least, I think that I will gain permission to use this as a temporary course.
Hey John,
I have a question about designing an entire course around a lake. The pic below features the Blackbear course (we've discussed this one a few times)... this course is in orange. The other course is a future course mockup that I will propose to parks. This mockup only features holes on the East side of the lake. I made basically a figure 8 in order to incorporate fh and bh carries over the water or near the water.
My question is, if we were to try to design the course entirely around the lake, basically one giant 2 mile loop... How would you design the course in order to allow for both fh and bh risk shots?
The only way that I can think to do this is some type of switchback/howdie-do point... but that would be more difficult with the length of the walk around the lake already.
This all of course is farther down the line, however.... there is no time like the present to secure land for the future. We are on very good terms with Parks right now. We are just low on funding. The state park and the state forest split the lake. So, that might make it a little harder to secure all of that lake front. Just trying to gain some knowledge before I present the idea. At the very least, I think that I will gain permission to use this as a temporary course.
Follow up... spoke to parks a little bit today. The state park actually owns all of the land sorrounding the lake. So, it is possible to have a course using the entire lake
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
So design the course as a complete loop around the lake that can be played in either direction. Odd days it's clockwise and even days it's counterclockwise. It's a little like Ft. Steilacoom where at one time (maybe not now?) they had baskets everywhere with different routing and hole numbering specified on the sign board for that day.
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biscoe
* Ace Member *
or don't do that because it is a confusing mess...
