[Axiom] Axiom Envy

[isamoor]

They're right on the edge of too fast for putting.

I still do it frequently so I can carry less discs. But there's always a niggle in my brain telling me I'm increasing the likelihood of a three putt too much.

When I do putt with them, I usually aim for a lower hit point, and I don't sweat it much if I bang the cage and drop down.


On the flip side, a nicely beat Electron Envy also starts encroaching on my Buzzzes as well. I still usually carry both, but there's not a ton of separation there. (I throw electron envies just over 275' and Buzzzes around 300')

 

[strunk flugget]

They're right on the edge of too fast for putting.

I still do it frequently so I can carry less discs. But there's always a niggle in my brain telling me I'm increasing the likelihood of a three putt too much.

When I do putt with them, I usually aim for a lower hit point, and I don't sweat it much if I bang the cage and drop down.


On the flip side, a nicely beat Electron Envy also starts encroaching on my Buzzzes as well. I still usually carry both, but there's not a ton of separation there. (I throw electron envies just over 275' and Buzzzes around 300')

Building a mixed bag with MVP throwing putters and mids is something that I think is a challenge. I dropped the Buzzz because, at the time when I was throwing Envys, they were going nearly as far as the buzzz on similar lines. The hex was going farther than the buzzz on similar lines.

I could write a whole lot on that topic, I think there is absolutely still merit in having a mixed bag of putters and mids. But think I was surprised, and I have seen others surprised, when they realize that an envy and hex covers a ton of shots that I had been using my Buzzz for for nearly eight years. The challenge is figuring out what slots a solo mold putter and mid are good for and making sure they compliment the gyro stuff.

That said, putting with envys and proxys was something I tried and I agree, they are too fast. I really like speed two putters and the Wizards are something I just kept coming back to.

 

[ray1970]

Not sure what kind of putting style you guys use where you find the Envy "too fast".

I've tried several times to make the switch to the Envy for putting and they didn't putt any different than a P2, a Wizard, a Judge, etc. My only complaint and why I never stuck with them was the hand feel. I love the low, almost nonexistent shoulder and flat top for throwing the Envy but it just doesn't click with my putting grip.

 

[strunk flugget]

Not sure what kind of putting style you guys use where you find the Envy "too fast".

I've tried several times to make the switch to the Envy for putting and they didn't putt any different than a P2, a Wizard, a Judge, etc. My only complaint and why I never stuck with them was the hand feel. I love the low, almost nonexistent shoulder and flat top for throwing the Envy but it just doesn't click with my putting grip.

I think I spush putt. For me I think it had more to do with I felt like I needed to put more energy/spin to get the Envy to have comparable results to other putters I had used and liked. The difference was that a miss with the Envy was so much more painful. I'd like to think I am more mature now in my game and could maybe make it work for me. But that ship sailed a while ago.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Not sure what kind of putting style you guys use where you find the Envy "too fast".

Yeah me neither, I guess if you are 50 or 60 feet out maybe, the thing Ilike about putting the envy is the drop and fade. It's not the best straight at it putter but I generally do a little straight to side of chains hyzer arc/drop in. I'm rarely further than 20' past. Love the wind resistance, love the feel.

 

[isamoor]

In my backyard, I like to setup my practice basket a little under 15' from my fence. I then putt from the middle of my yard. If I hit the fence (that is behind the basket) in the air, then I know I have messed up pretty bad. If I hit it near the ground I don't sweat it too much (I'm pretty okay at 15' putts). If I bounce the top of the basket and go over the fence that's fairly okay in my book as well (it's a modestly rare occurrence). But if I'm airballing and/or tickling chains and then smacking the fence a couple feet off the ground then I know I'm going to be in trouble on the course.

I have good make percentages with the envies (as good as anything for me, which isn't that great). But they also hit that damn fence with regularity. I can (and do) add more arc to compensate, but I'm just not that good with a lofty putt.

If I go down to a BBAviar/Wizard/Berg, then I can keep my edge of circle putts hitting that fence only rarely.

I'm pretty far towards the "spin" end of the push<>spin spectrum.

 

[hawgdriver]

Thanks. So, do you throw a premium plastic envy?

I'm thinking of paring a premium and Electron Envy with my Soft Exo Tactic and Razor Claw 2. Switching from some old P2's and P1x's for the shallower feel.

My driving putter is an Eclipse Envy. I throw that one disc on nearly everything about 200-330' that's not weird. Probably 50% of my tee shots and many approaches.

My experience is that Electron, which I also bag and throw routinely, is sort of a 0 HSS fade when fresh and a -1 after a few teeth are knocked out. It becomes Envy meets Comet/Tursas/Meteor/etc. Great disc when you want straight, and right isn't awful, but you can't afford left. And all the same times you want a Comet-type--woody lines, etc., but want less flip.

Eclipse starts as a 1 and beats in to a 0.5. But it's a beefy 0.5. After throwing a ton of Envy in all plastics, it's my overall fav.

Neutron, Plasma, and Fission are all great premiums too. The differences are so subtle, it took me hundreds of throws to really nail down that they are actually different. Plasma is probably closest to Eclipse, but is a hair more beef. Neutron has more LSS but is otherwise identical and is rad. Fission I can't seem to get the same distance, but I can with my Hex. (idk!)

Discs are discs, but for my game my mistakes with an Envy end up as birdies way more than anything else I might throw.

 

[hawgdriver]

They're right on the edge of too fast for putting.

I putt with them. I love them. They are fine. As long as it's dry at least.

I love the speed and shape in C2-land, it makes it easier to visualize the line into the chains. I'd putt with a Paradox though, if I didn't get so many spit-outs. That thing has the best C2 shape.

If it helps, I won the local putting league two out of the three times I played. At that time I was putting with Banger GTs. I have really come to love the Envy as a putter for my putting style. My style is similar to Gannon Buhr's, except he's much better.

 

[hawgdriver]

Also, it's a valid point about the speed. I think my C2% makes up for the missed come-backers, but it's a thing.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Got the proto glow Grinch today, 174g flat top and weirdly soft. My other proto is indiscernable from the reg run... was there a lot of these slightly softer proto eclipse glow? Do you think Theo dip did the magic?

 

[discerdoo]

Got the proto glow Grinch today, 174g flat top and weirdly soft. My other proto is indiscernable from the reg run... was there a lot of these slightly softer proto eclipse glow? Do you think Theo dip did the magic?

I felt up a proto eclipse Proxy a card mate had and was surprised at how soft it was. Nothing like any other eclipse that I have.

 

[zendragon]

Ok, seriously, why hasn't anyone posted on here about the Fission Envy? I got a 154g one that is money. It's got all the stability of one of the most stable Envies with lots of extra glide. I'm loving it for putting and driving.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Ok, seriously, why hasn't anyone posted on here about the Fission Envy? I got a 154g one that is money. It's got all the stability of one of the most stable Envies with lots of extra glide. I'm loving it for putting and driving.

In my case, I'm waiting for winter to clear out. Snow and ice on the ground is a hard pass for me.

 

[Puckstopper]

I went low 170's to compare it to my other Envys. It's not that different so far, but it's really hard to tell the difference throwing in a coat. I probably should have tried going lightweight.

 

[zendragon]

I finally got my 172 Fizzy in yesterday, and it's not really any more stable than the 154, but it's not as glidey from what I can tell with the few throws I had with it. I was able to put both on a big sky anhyzer release and they both held the line really well, but the 154 probably held it longer. It was hard to tell though if it was just the release or the lighter weight. Overall the 154 was pretty consistently landing all of 10-15' further than the 172, but that's not that much in the grand scheme of things. A couple of times I threw the 154 too low and the 172 clearly outdrove it, so IDK, again, all variances could've just been in my throws. I like them both, but I think the 154 is just better for C2 putting.

 

[The Mickstar]

Has anyone noticed stability or glide differences between the various Electron Envys?

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Ummm like what?

Electron soft has the most turn and later fast fade I'd say.

Firm electron is real straight, seems to push fairly far.

Proto electron eclipse is magical, kinda like a firm after a few months. Just a straight glide machine.

Not a real difference between them. I think the soft start out the most stable, they seem to come out with a higher dome.

 

[strunk flugget]

Has anyone noticed stability or glide differences between the various Electron Envys?

I'm not sure I've noticed much difference. I can't say for certain but the various firmness levels (empirical data that I have observed) seem to also have varying degrees of durability. In my experience Electron Firm is more durable that Electron which is more durable than Electron Soft.

All that to say, soft seems to beat in the fastest and lose stability the quickest, followed by electron, followed by electron firm.

 

[ray1970]

All that to say, soft seems to beat in the fastest and lose stability the quickest, followed by electron, followed by electron firm.

I'm going to politely disagree with this as my experience has been the opposite.

The softer electron seems to flex enough that it kind of absorbs the impact where the firm ones beat in rather quickly.

As far as the question about flight differences between the electrons, I would say they generally fly about the same. The firms straighten out pretty quickly with a little wear.

 

[xyman621]

Has anyone noticed stability or glide differences between the various Electron Envys?

I haven't thrown much in medium, but have several in soft and hard. In my opinion both have the same flight out of the box. If there's a difference it's negligible.