Backhand form critique request

[Salto]

Hi DGCR,
I've been studying form working on my form with most of the materials from DGCR. SW22 and HUBs, and other discussions and videos have inspired me and caused me to approach working on my form in a different way. My progress is stalling a bit I feel and considering there is so much to work on I am not sure anymore what to focus on. Some directions would be great so please check this video. I put about 50% in this throw..
https://youtu.be/pZ8g_rYHGUo

Another thing I'm wondering about since this is brought up here often. Is to feel the momentum similar to swinging a bat, racket, club, heavy object etc. I've brought some of these objects for field work to get a feel for it, but I can't seem to translate it when I throw a disc. With a racket for example I can swing this around with a smoother arc and feel how to accelerate it with my weight shift. However, with a disc this changes. I guess it could be because you're bringing the disc into a power pocket center chest before quickly swinging around a much more narrow arc. Any tips for translating this feeling into a disc?

 

[sidewinder22]

Would be easier to see how you are releasing too open at your 12 o'clock instead of closed out to 10 o'clock.

Shoulders/elbow need to stop or slow down to release the lower arm/disc wide out.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132910

 

[Salto]

Would be easier to see how you are releasing too open at your 12 o'clock instead of closed out to 10 o'clock.



Shoulders/elbow need to stop or slow down to release the lower arm/disc wide out.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132910

This is great and it makes sense to me. Update will follow, some work to do now!

 

[Salto]

I also see now how you are not spilling the beverage. It must be related.

 

[Salto]

Progress update.

SW22 you were spot on with the advice.
I have been working on slowing down my shoulders etc and letting the arm release out wide.
I see in my videos I still have to take this principle further.
But I am already getting about 50 ft (15 m) extra distance.
This extra distance is coming with less effort.

So first of all thank you SW22, I am not stuck with my form anymore.
It seems like a lot of other things that I was trying before are making a difference now.
I feel there is a lot to experiment with again, in contrast to the feeling I had before where nothing I changed seemed to make a difference.

Another thing I am working out now is how to throw hyzer again.
I read that it should be more efficient to power a hyzer.
However it is taking me a conscious effort when trying to throw hyzer and I either throw it high or turn over.
I did get a massive roller (500 ft / 150 m) though so that was pretty awesome.
For reference. I throw up to 380 ft / 115 m now, in contrast to the 330 ft / 100 m before SW22's advice.

Additional advice is most welcome!
Back view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6s3VWFGWY
Side view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHjkd8pNc10

 

[sidewinder22]

Your left foot is stepping too far ahead of your body and slowing your momentum down and left foot stepping too far to the left in the way of your right foot, so your right foot has to stride/stagger too far to the left tee side and not really creating any internal torque or cocking the hips with a straighter stride turning back more outside-in like GG, or more inside-out stride like Lizotte.

Left foot barely needs to cross behind right foot. Knees do not need to cross over each other.

 

[Salto]

Makes sense and excited to work on this! Thank you!

 

[Salto]

How do I tilt the spiral?

Update on my progress.

My backhand has improved a lot. Getting consistently further and being able to control my angles better. Thanks a lot for the input SW22! SW22's video comparing GG and eagles forms was also very helpful, as adding some vertical forces seemed to help as well.

So, here is what it looks like now from behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDFbQVqnYc

I am quite happy that I now have a finish position. However, I noticed I am staying very upright. I have been trying to tilt the spiral as I think it will allow me to add more power. So far without success. I have been working on posture for this, such as HUB says that you need to get the butt out. Also I seem to be able to make a good tilted swing when I swing a hammer/umbrella. However, I can't seem to make it work with a disc. Any advice on what I should try?

Finish position (upright but not tilted):

Proper finishing position:

I shot a video from the side as well, however, it seems I did not kick the can with my rear foot in these throws that I recorded from the side. I do feel I have been getting it right, such as in the video I shot from behind. Still, something I should get some muscle memory for.

Side video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCCsbypTGp4

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking good except for your left arm going behind your back/posterior. Note how Paul brings his left arm forward into the plant while your left arm is going backward away from target going into plant.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124523

 

[Salto]

Thanks. I see this may be more important than I initially thought. I did have one issue when working on this before which is that I'd occasionally slam my left hand and the disc into each other really painfully. Will slow it down and perhaps gonna wear a protective glove until I figure it out.
I have also noticed most pros keep their off arm below the disc at this point whereas GG has his off arm above it. I think I'll try working on keeping it lower like McBeth as it seems more comfortable. But is there perhaps some advantages to doing it like GG?

 

[bsammons]

Thanks. I see this may be more important than I initially thought. I did have one issue when working on this before which is that I'd occasionally slam my left hand and the disc into each other really painfully. Will slow it down and perhaps gonna wear a protective glove until I figure it out.
I have also noticed most pros keep their off arm below the disc at this point whereas GG has his off arm above it. I think I'll try working on keeping it lower like McBeth as it seems more comfortable. But is there perhaps some advantages to doing it like GG?

I think it's easier to do the swim move/trail arm move a la Paul Mcbeth, where it's more compressed and easier to feel the rear shoulder oblique sling adding tension and targetward force for the lead/throwing arm. Wouldn't say one has more potential than the other, GG style might have slightly more potential for someone with more arm weight while mcbeth style might be better for taller and lankier builds to stay more compact and tightly wound.

 

[Salto]

It seems indeed the arm move a la McBeth makes it a bit easier to get the feel for it. What I found most helpful is to focus more on where the off arm has to go rather than where it comes from. As long as I don't let it go back as far as SW22 pointed out in my form of course.

Another thing I tried during a field work session that really seemed to help with getting the feel for it in the one step is kicking my plant foot up before 'falling' into the brace as SW22 shows in this video: https://youtu.be/GxnhM5amro0?t=40 . And mentioning to bring the off arm elbow into the hip. It seems to be really helpful to get the feel for it, so I am hoping to be able to incorporate what I have learned from this into the X-step soon.

 

[Salto]

I made quite some progress since the last time, thanks! Would be happy to receive some pointers again I think I really need some to move forward.

Mostly looking for general advice. But what I specifically foundmost noticable is the amateur mistake of moving the disc backwards rather than keeping it in place and moving around it. Any specific tips on how to fix this?

https://youtu.be/GZcwRdSWYgo
https://youtu.be/9kcp4s0uzIw

 

[sidewinder22]

Your backswing is too quick/early and crouched and end up pushing upward off the rear foot instead of dropping while driving forward. Your steps look jerky and manipulated, instead of smooth and fluid and natural. Relax and stop trying too hard. Try swinging a heavy sledgehammer and doing an x-step, your steps will have to be in tune/rhythm with the swing.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415

 

[Salto]

Thanks again for the advice. I went out with a heavy rod to swing and get a feel for it. I have done this type of practice before, but damn is it hard to translate that feel when you're holding a 170g disc.

One thing I noticed which is that when you do 'the pump'. I was doing it off my front foot and noticed you doing it off the rear. It definitely made more sense when holding that heavy object to do it this way. Also, I think that when you swing forward before the back swing, you let that momentum carry you forward. It also felt natural when swinging something heavy, and interesting so far when doing it with the disc. I think that's all I need in terms of generating some forward momentum, and shouldn't add more. Definitely feels like good stuff to work on.

 

[Salto]

https://youtu.be/Ch0UmUy-Ss4

Do you think I am heading in the right direction with this? It's a change of pace mainly, feels more similar to elephant walk or swinging somethig heavy. Though I lose some of the rubber band effect I think.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks good except for the hitch, should be all one fluid motion.

 

[Salto]

Lived abroad for half a year and didn't make as much progress. But I am back at it again.

For this throw I still have the hitch, but other than that I was quite happy with the timing of the backswing and overall feel.
https://youtu.be/21UzMJB_Pe0

My guess is for the previous throw I am supporting myself during the last step because I find it difficult to stay balanced as I am striding into the plant. Anyways I have been working on it as shown with the following two throws:

Side view
https://youtu.be/dxYYoF8qgBI
Rear view
https://youtu.be/OYh9YnBmxjE

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[Brychanus]

Welcome back!

It looks like your weight shift/hitch are a little tentative, and you are not commiting the swing with your weight leading. I agree that getting used to the feeling can be hard, but letting momentum carry you past the brace while learning is ok. You will gradually calibrate to the sweet spots.

Starting with your pump and back swing in One Leg Drill in one continuous motion/no hitch may help get that weight forward/down into the plant and more fluidly lead the swing.

 

[Salto]

Welcome back!

It looks like your weight shift/hitch are a little tentative, and you are not commiting the swing with your weight leading. I agree that getting used to the feeling can be hard, but letting momentum carry you past the brace while learning is ok. You will gradually calibrate to the sweet spots.

Starting with your pump and back swing in One Leg Drill in one continuous motion/no hitch may help get that weight forward/down into the plant and more fluidly lead the swing.

Thanks for the feedback! Thinking about your advice in the context of the doorframe position, most of my bodies mass is ahead of my plant foot/brace. I suppose this is the same idea? The weight is leading in this static position and now I need to commit more to be able to do it in a dynamic motion?

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