Backhand: Reach Back vs "Moving Around the Disc" (McBeth Style)

[DiscinFiend]

So I want to be able to throw as far & accurate as I possibly can (like everyone) & I'm having problems deciding which technique to use backhand. In the Ask McBeth thread I noticed McBeth said he doesn't reach back in the traditional way but rather keeps the disc in the same spot & moves around the disc until his arm is extended which it then looks like a regular reach back. Paul posted a slow motion video of himself doing it in his thread showing this motion I described (pretty sure its on YouTube also). Which is more consistent & which is better for achieving max distance (Traditional reach back or McBeths way)?

 

[Rescue]

IDK, but I know I'm going to try the McBeth style. I have alway felt that once you learn the basic technique of any sport or game. The rest is up to what works for your body design and ability. Example: I push putt with a straddle stance, but My lft foot is about 6" behind my right (imaginary line from toes). For me, I feel like I get a better push off from the ground. Most people I know keep both feet in "line" with each other.
So I'm going to try the "McBeth style" and see what happens. Problem is, it might work for me, but will it for you?

 

[sidewinder22]

The term "reachback" should be eliminated. Backswing is much more appropriate especially from a standstill. When you start adding steps to a proper backswing, the arm/disc doesn't really move, the body moves around the arm/disc and loads. All good players do this. McBeth, Feldy and Barry Shultz have a more pronounced forward press/pre-swing than most players and then start the backswing and work around it, which is also what I do. McBeth has a little more of a hitch at the top of the backswing than Feldy and Barry who are a little smoother.

 

[DiscinFiend]

The term "reachback" should be eliminated. Backswing is much more appropriate especially from a standstill. When you start adding steps to a proper backswing, the arm/disc doesn't really move, the body moves around the arm/disc and loads. All good players do this. McBeth, Feldy and Barry Shultz have a more pronounced forward press/pre-swing than most players and then start the backswing and work around it, which is also what I do. McBeth has a little more of a hitch at the top of the backswing than Feldy and Barry who are a little smoother.

Thanks for the info. Can you get more detailed please? Why isn't this concept pushed more in instructional videos? Unrelated topic...what's your max d backhand?

 

[Monkeypaws]

I've recently minimized my style, eliminating the fancy footwork and focussing on the rip through and snap, and I haven't sacrificed much distance, if any, and my accuracy has increased by a lot.

When i try to reach back like Will, I turn and burn almost every time.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

You made me go look at this when I should be working, so now you have to watch the youtubes I watched. I don't know what to say about Paul. Will has a massive reachback. I love the way Dave's runup sets up his release.

PAUL



WILL



DAVE



Side By Sides

 

[bnbanbury]

I have been contemplating this a lot this season as i have been attempting to rebuild my backhand a bit. I get power easier with a longer reach back but throw more accurately when i reach away from my body and then pull tight to my body as i enter the throwing zone. Barry Schultz, mentioned above, is probably the best example of this (one of the most accurate backhands on the planet). Right now its a trade off as i haven't figured out how to generate the same power this way, but i'm working on it.

 

[bnbanbury]

couldn't find a great slow mo of barry, this one is ok:


Barry throws at 1:00

 

[sidewinder22]

Thanks for the info. Can you get more detailed please? Why isn't this concept pushed more in instructional videos? Unrelated topic...what's your max d backhand?

Actually Will unfolds his lower arm instead of swinging it back, so to him it might be more of a true reachback, but the shoulders and body are still more like a backswing. The way he does it makes it harder to time, but he gets a little extra bounce at the top for more power.

I know Feldy has been preaching working around the disc for at least the past few years in clinics. This is a little more in-depth description:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24009

This was 450' and easily repeatable:

 

[jrawk]

You made me go look at this when I should be working, so now you have to watch the youtubes I watched. I don't know what to say about Paul. Will has a massive reachback. I love the way Dave's runup sets up his release.



WILL

watch will's disc from the 14 second mark to the 16 second mark. It stays in the same spot in the frame while his body/arm moves into position.

This is actually a very specific point i use when teaching beginners how to drive. I actually hold there disc stationary and as tight as i can with one hand while they hold it and do their steps with without the disc moving. By the time their plant foot is down and loaded ready to pivot, their arm is at the proper reach back position without the disc moving an inch from when they started the first step.

hope that makes sense. Maybe i'll get a video of that next week.

 

[DiscinFiend]

watch will's disc from the 14 second mark to the 16 second mark. It stays in the same spot in the frame while his body/arm moves into position.

This is actually a very specific point i use when teaching beginners how to drive. I actually hold there disc stationary and as tight as i can with one hand while they hold it and do their steps with without the disc moving. By the time their plant foot is down and loaded ready to pivot, their arm is at the proper reach back position without the disc moving an inch from when they started the first step.

hope that makes sense. Maybe i'll get a video of that next week.

I'd love to see that vid

 

[DiscinFiend]

Actually Will unfolds his lower arm instead of swinging it back, so to him it might be more of a true reachback, but the shoulders and body are still more like a backswing. The way he does it makes it harder to time, but he gets a little extra bounce at the top for more power.

I know Feldy has been preaching working around the disc for at least the past few years in clinics. This is a little more in-depth description:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24009

This was 450' and easily repeatable:

:thmbup: Thanks for the vid & links, very helpful. Last question & then i'll stop bothering you. After you "pump" forward do you just stop moving your arm/hand until you move around the disc (if that makes sense)?

 

[StarFirebird]

When I started getting serious about disc golf back in 2010 I started focusing on how I was throwing it. Came across some great threads and figured out my style is a lot like McBeth's.

It's real easy to keep your accuracy with this style,for me if I reach back like Will I lose all composure and I'm way off on my target. We'll just say it's bad.

So my vote goes for moving around the disc for the increased accuracy you get and the better feel for certain shots once you get used to it.

 

[sidewinder22]

:thmbup: Thanks for the vid & links, very helpful. Last question & then i'll stop bothering you. After you "pump" forward do you just stop moving your arm/hand until you move around the disc (if that makes sense)?

I pump to my hit point and kind of slither/pivot around the disc loosely/tautly to move my body into max reachback position I want for the shot. So I'm aiming the line with my body not really the arm. As soon as you can't pivot/move your body back any further while not moving the disc, your weight should transferring forward which brings the disc forward(not the arm) and you get a sling shot effect and rhythm. From a standstill its a backswing from the pump, the butt moves forward and the arm/disc swings back, and then the butt moves backward and the arm/disc swings back forward, it's almost perpetual.

 

[Streets]

When I started getting serious about disc golf back in 2010 I started focusing on how I was throwing it. Came across some great threads and figured out my style is a lot like McBeth's.

It's real easy to keep your accuracy with this style,for me if I reach back like Will I lose all composure and I'm way off on my target. We'll just say it's bad.

So my vote goes for moving around the disc for the increased accuracy you get and the better feel for certain shots once you get used to it.

I messed around with this style warming up before dubs tonight and it intrigued me because I felt like I got more snap and distance standing still with almost less effort. Didn't use it during dubs cause that really would have messed me up. Really want to practice this, because I feel like a pure "reachback" can come off line during the pull through.

 

[Kodachrome]

i'm on board.

i have longer arms; 6 foot 2, 200 lbs. when i reach back i feel like i've lost a lot of power. i can cruise out some nice short mid shots, but i don't feel like i'm storing anything as i turn my core.

when i move my body forward instead of reaching my arm back, i feel that timing for a turn and release is much more natural to me because i've just taken a whole variable out of the equation. i'm not doing two things at once anymore - just one.

 

[Smigles]

Isnt what you describe as mcbeth style kind what happens naturally when you do it properly ? The moment where the disc seems to stay more or less in place, doesnt that happen with many peoples drives ?

Just wondering, I have not payed attention to thi stoo much yet.

Also : technique section ? ^^

 

[nrihan]

The pre throw "pump" mcbeth/doss style throw has helped me throw farther and more accurately as well. Great topic.

 

[DiscinFiend]

Isnt what you describe as mcbeth style kind what happens naturally when you do it properly ? The moment where the disc seems to stay more or less in place, doesnt that happen with many peoples drives ?

Just wondering, I have not payed attention to thi stoo much yet.

Also : technique section ? ^^

Yes & Yes. Also I didn't put it in the technique section b/c I felt with the options given general discussion was a better option.

 

[Kenny53691]

I've never though about "moving around the disc", but it seems like it is a common factor on most of the video's that I see. I like this thread, keep up the good info guys!