Ball Golf Course Tolerance

[araytx]

DD does a very good job at spam marketing so its no surprise that viewership was so high and the coverage was also the best thing we have seen all year so when people tuned in they kept watching unlike all the pro tour events where a lot of us would tune in, see crappy coverage and then leave.

Not just "the viewership was so high," and not just "the best thing we have seen all year." this year. It was the most OF ALL TIME. As in, since live coverage became a thing. THIS Glass Blown Open on THIS course was the most watched live of all time.

You really can't be claiming that is all or only due to marketing.

 

[Horsman]

Not just "the viewership was so high," and not just "the best thing we have seen all year." this year. It was the most OF ALL TIME. As in, since live coverage became a thing. THIS Glass Blown Open on THIS course was the most watched live of all time.

You really can't be claiming that is all or only due to marketing.

I didnt, you referenced the other point I gave. I also never said that those were the only reasons.

So what is your issue with me? You claimed earlier in another thread that I was Trilogy bashing and now that I gave them some praise you still have an issue with what I say.

 

[DiscFifty]

DD does a very good job at spam marketing so its no surprise that viewership was so high and the coverage was also the best thing we have seen all year so when people tuned in they kept watching unlike all the pro tour events where a lot of us would tune in, see crappy coverage and then leave.

On a business level I am very impressed how DD managed to build a relatively cheap/free national marketing campaign by "sponsoring" regional ams who promote the brand locally at tournaments, events, etc, in return for.....plastic. Say what you will, but the Trilogy street team / DD making local ams feel like pros so they push their brand, will go down as one of the smartest business moves ever made in Disc Golf. :clap:

 

[Horsman]

On a business level I am very impressed how DD managed to build a relatively cheap/free national marketing campaign by "sponsoring" regional ams who promote the brand locally at tournaments, events, etc, in return for.....plastic. Say what you will, but the Trilogy street team / DD making local ams feel like pros so they push their brand, will go down as one of the smartest business moves ever made in Disc Golf. :clap:

Agreed, DD has arguably the best and most marketing. I actually had to block and stop following a lot of people because of it. My feeds were filled with only DD and it wasnt giving me a true picture of what the state of disc golf actually was.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Thread drift.

Was that your ITB that popped up in my youtube feed earlier?

 

[araytx]

I didnt, you referenced the other point I gave. I also never said that those were the only reasons.

So what is your issue with me? You claimed earlier in another thread that I was Trilogy bashing and now that I gave them some praise you still have an issue with what I say.

NO issue. I simply wanted to point out that the context implied "just because of." I wanted to simplu point out to all reading this thread it was not "just because."

 

[Horsman]

NO issue. I simply wanted to point out that the context implied "just because of." I wanted to simplu point out to all reading this thread it was not "just because."

And it was pretty easy to see the context in my post just by reading it. Your attacks on my character are very unwarranted but Ill make sue my future posts are less offensive to you. You obviously have an issue with me. Im a real person with real thoughts and if you ever want to talk about them I am open to anything.

 

[Horsman]

Was that your ITB that popped up in my youtube feed earlier?

Yes sir, best video quality ever.

 

[IHearChains]

In terms of what a lot of people in this thread seem to be looking for, the best Jomez viewing of the year so far has been the Rumble. Two courses, NO ball golf. One is wooded 7000+ with hills and ravines and tough par4s, and the other is mixed open/wooded 10000+ with manicured fairways, thick rough, hills, and challenging water hazards. (yes there were a couple of badly maintained holes that needed brush removal)

 

[GoobyPls]

For their style of filming, open courses are tougher to film. Specifically from the perspective of the catch cam. On a wooded fairway, the catch cam operator has to be fairly confident that all the shots are going to come on a particular line so he can set up in the best spot to catch those shots. In an open fairway, there's a whole variety of lines the players can take...hyzer, anhyzer, roller, forehand, backhand, etc. And the camera not only has to figure out which line the player is taking but also where to stand to best capture it. And if you have four different players throwing four different types of shots, the best place to stand won't be the same for all four.

The idea that open courses are better for filming I think is based in two antiquated notions. The first is from how ball golf tournaments are filmed and the expectation that disc golf should be filmed similarly. That is, "tower cameras" that don't really move around but rely on zoom and focus to cover a given hole. Can't really do that effectively if there are trees everywhere. The second is simply the technology of cameras. 15-20 years ago, all that was available was standard definition video tape. It made it harder to see and follow the discs in flight. So the less that could get in the way or obscure the view of the disc, the better.

Now with 1080p/4K cameras and what can be called a more guerrila filming style (cameras on the ground moving around for different angles and views), all those old concerns are out-of-date.

Wide open courses are still better from a gallery perspective simply because there's more room for a gallery to watch without potentially being in the way, but on the video side, there's no real benefit. At least until we get ESPN money to film and all those hard-wired cameras for the live TV broadcast need to be more stationary "tower" style.

Ian Anderson has literally said the opposite on this forum, that he prefers to film woods courses. IIRC he said part of the reason for that is it's hard for the catch cam to track the disc in flight against the sky on big open golf courses.

 

[JC17393]

Ian Anderson has literally said the opposite on this forum, that he prefers to film woods courses. IIRC he said part of the reason for that is it's hard for the catch cam to track the disc in flight against the sky on big open golf courses.

Show me where I said anything that is the opposite of what you say Ian said.

 

[GoobyPls]

Show me where I said anything that is the opposite of what you say Ian said.

Yup, I misread your post at first and then it was too late to remove mine. 100% my fault there.

 

[DiscFifty]

Right now the viewing majority is players, so sure a high percentage of those will want to see the pros tackle courses similar to their local courses which probably have alot of trees, etc. Like it or not, when Joe Non Player Public comes a knockin en mass.. they will want to see long booming drives on ball golf type courses with a flight tracker.

 

[araytx]

And it was pretty easy to see the context in my post just by reading it. Your attacks on my character are very unwarranted but Ill make sue my future posts are less offensive to you. You obviously have an issue with me. Im a real person with real thoughts and if you ever want to talk about them I am open to anything.

Dude I apologize. Like I said, no issue. If I interpreted that context incorrectly, I'm sorry. Good to know that you didn't think it was "just" because of media.

 

[sjberry2017]

When executed well, it can make for fun golf to watch and play. Here in Memphis we play the Bluff City Classic on the Overton Park golf course and it's an absolute blast with a ton of elevation change and long holes that require two good shots. There's also MAM, which is a permanent course on a golf course. Same challenge, but there's a lot more trees and off the fairway holes. Both Gleneagles and DeLa do the same thing, using the elevation and off fairway trees to make exciting holes. They also don't necessarily play just down the fairways or have a bunch of wide open shots with a few trees. Some of the more boring courses, such as the Utah Open, LVC, etc pretty much just play up and down the golf fairways with a couple excursions. Some of the more boring ones I can remember do that, such as the St Jude one, but the Aussie Open one didn't play up and down the fairways as much either.

I think the key is to do one of two things: either use the massive elevation changes in golf fairways to make a course that pushes the limits past what other, more traditional disc golf courses can provide, or ignore the golf fairways and build a course that uses the sides of the fairways and woods to separate fairways to create interesting shots that add in the golf fairway as either a way to manipulate the disc landing or as a flight path from trees to trees.

 

[Rizbee]

...but I certainly gained much more respect and appreciation for Winthrop Gold after having played it versus before I ever set foot on the grounds.

Exactly. If you haven't played these courses you probably don't understand the difficulty involved in playing them (well). There are a LOT of subtleties of Goat Hill that aren't fully reflected on video coverage of the course. 2-dimensional video has a hard time showing elevation change.

One thing about it that I still don't think gets the appreciation it deserves is that while it has many holes where there are few obstructions for the disc in flight, it challenges players to take care and notice of how and where the disc lands. I don't just mean whether it lands inside the ropes or not, but whether it lands flat or not. Whether the throw fades into the slope of the hill or with the slope of the hill. Or whether it is a slower speed disc that will grab when it lands rather than skip or catch edge and roll. It's something that few courses I've ever played or seen played seem to consider, but the designers at USDGC absolutely do. And it's something subtle enough that casual observers or even seasoned players may not pick up on it when watching, even in-person.

This. At Goat Hill you can't simply chuck the disc without paying attention to where it lands, in terms of whether your landing spot will provide good footing (flat, grass rather than DG) and a favorable angle vis-a-vis the wind that is ALWAYS present. It's not just about throwing far off the tee, it's about throwing far to favorable footing and angle for your approach to the basket.

Thomas Gilbert played extremely well at the Challenge. Mostly because he is a very good up-and-coming player, but also because he was smart enough to play practice rounds with two players who have played some of the best rounds at Goat Hill and know the course inside and out (Seppo and AJ).

One thing that might be happening here is that perhaps the commentators are missing the opportunity to fully describe the challenges presented by the holes. Watch some ball golf coverage (of tough, interesting courses like those used for majors) and you'll get some examples of how the difficulties and subtleties presented by some of these ball golf courses can be described. Better use can be made of the drone flyover time to point out necessary strategy.

 

[BrotherDave]

The ones in California like Goat Hill and Gleneagles kept me entertained enough. I like the interesting flora, terrain, and the great deal of elevation change. If you've never played a course with lots of serious elevation change it really is a completely different dynamic and it's surprisingly tough to keep a disc on those massive fairways. The ones like at the Utah Open though are my least favorite tourneys to watch. They really are a snoozefest unless crazy wind occurs and even then it doesn't really seem like I'm watching disc golf.

 

[ThunderEagle]

I do find open courses with lots of roped OB very fun to play, but I agree they aren't as good to watch. However, they are MUCH easier to film, which might be contributing to the trend.

Ian Anderson of CCDG has said many times that this is absolutely not true. He finds wooded golf much easier to film. There is both a background so you can pick up the disc vs the open sky, and there are only so many lines, so they know where the disc is going.