Basket Security - Best tips n tricks?

[Steve West]

The risk is greatest in the first year a course goes in. A while ago I worked out that about 1% of baskets go missing each year, but the rate is double in the first year.

So most courses should budget for a new basket about every 5 or 6 years. Obviously, the risk will vary by location.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Any idea what the city is doing with the old baskets? Not that I need one...

But I came here to say pour concrete down the pipe, possibly after loose rebar.

No way a Sawzall is cutting through this. :clap:

A gas powered cut-off saw or angle grinder would go through this, but not to many people have one at their disposal.

Plus, a Sawzall cutting through pipe isn't very loud, but a cut-off saw or angle grinder cutting through pipe/concrete/rebar will definitely wake the neighbors!

I'd have to see, or more specifically HEAR, it being done somewhere first. What does this do to the resonating sound of the chains? The reason I ask is because at home I poured sand into the pipes for my throwing net install and it made an enormous difference going from a loud ass ping to pretty much silence, so I wonder how the greatest sound in sport would be impacted by filling concrete in the pipe.

I know the chains will still jingle, but is it quite the same? Does it take away from it?

Its like taking the crack of the bat away from baseball, the pop-swish sound of puck movement and skating from hockey, the swish of a net from basketball, or the crunching of two sets of pads colliding in football.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Any idea what the city is doing with the old baskets? Not that I need one...

Forgot to answer this - half of the existing baskets are going to a TPS elementary school and the other half are going to the Rocket Disc Golf club at UT (they are the ones in communication with the city and who did the legwork to get the funding for this). The goal is a short 9er like Dorr at the elementary and a 9er on UT's campus (my hope being in the wooded drainage area off West Rocket Dr between International House and the Greek Village area, next to the UT-Parks trail).

 

[BillFleming]

All of those suggestions are fine and dandy for reducing THEFT. But what about malicious damage? If your course is in a bad enough area where you have to consider anti-theft solutions...you are going to have vandalism. How will you protect against vandals breaking the tray and/or cutting/breaking chains? It's going to be near impossible to protect your baskets from damage. If you are that concerned....how about just making it an object course? Put in a pole at each 'basket' location and mark the poles according to the PDGA rules for targets. Yeah, not as fun as baskets...but less expensive to replace or repair.

 

[ejvogie]

TBH, I am (blissfully) unaware of any theft or vandalism of baskets at this park. And I consider it my home course

 

[ChrisWoj]

All of those suggestions are fine and dandy for reducing THEFT. But what about malicious damage? If your course is in a bad enough area where you have to consider anti-theft solutions...you are going to have vandalism. How will you protect against vandals breaking the tray and/or cutting/breaking chains? It's going to be near impossible to protect your baskets from damage. If you are that concerned....how about just making it an object course? Put in a pole at each 'basket' location and mark the poles according to the PDGA rules for targets. Yeah, not as fun as baskets...but less expensive to replace or repair.

1. As noted in the first post this is an existing course, we are not considering a new install. I suppose I was not clear that this course already has baskets. All references to prior instances of stolen baskets in the original post were referring to this course. This course does already have baskets. Our community absolutely would not accept going from baskets to poles on the one course in the city, which has been in the ground since 1998. This course hasn't had a basket stolen in over a decade, and we'd like to keep it that way with shiny new metal in the ground.

2. Vandalism is on our minds, for sure. There's only so much we can do, and we recognize that there are some things we can't prevent. But there is absolutely no way in hell that just because we can't prevent vandalism that we're not going to ignore other potential problems.

3. The location is noted as potentially troublesome in the first post, but maybe I shouldn't have bothered. Our worst cases of basket theft in community history (a full 9 stolen a decade before I started playing, and 6 out of 18 stolen in a brand new install in 2005) both happened at the courses in suburban areas outside of town. I would want to consider extra steps above and beyond to slow (if not stop) any potential basket thieves no matter where we installed.

Never let perfect be the enemy of good.

TBH, I am (blissfully) unaware of any theft or vandalism of baskets at this park. And I consider it my home course

The last stolen basket there was over 10 years ago now. I want to say we lost 3 there between 2005-2011ish. Hole 18 was stolen twice. And I feel like another one was, but can't remember which exactly. I wanna say 13. One of the holes along the neighborhood.

 

[ChrisinFL]

Stop thief!!!

I see mostly methods of stopping a thief once they start trying to steal it. Of course nothing is full proof, but I would also think about more ways to deter them from even trying. A simple, but somewhat effective deterrent homeowners often use: signage saying "Hidden cameras in place; theft or vandalism will be prosecuted". It won't stop all, but it may deter some would be scumbags! Course neighbors? Ask them to keep an eye out, call police if they see vandals or thieves, maybe give them your business card, try to make friends. I manage rental property, and I always let neighbors know to notify me if they see anything "not right" going on at my houses - tell them I want to help, and make sure my tenants are good neighbors. Has helped me a few times over the years. Ask local law enforcement for ideas, or to do a little keeping an eye on it - they might put it on a drive by list - where I am at, they will do that for homeowners with vacant houses, etc. (free). Good luck - sucks dealing with issues like that - very frustrating!

 

[DavidSauls]

In security, you might want to weigh the effect of diminishing returns. Basic installation (cement ball, locking collars) discourage lazy thieves and vandals. Nothing will deter the most committed ones. At what point is the extra effort no longer worthwhile?

Also, in making them as permanent as possible, you might consider the possibility that one day you have to move one -- for upgrades or repair of vandalism or some unforeseen actions by the park. If make it too secure, you might come to regret it.

 

[Dcinmd]

One thing I have not seen mentioned is how do you replace the baskets 20 years down the road?

It nice to make them permanent, but eventually they will have to come out of the ground one way or another.

Great suggestions so far on how to secure them. :clap:

 

[Dcinmd]

Also, in making them as permanent as possible, you might consider the possibility that one day you have to move one -- for upgrades or repair of vandalism or some unforeseen actions by the park. If make it too secure, you might come to regret it.

Beat me too that question. By that much.

 

[DavidSauls]

Beat me too that question. By that much.

I have lots of experience with unforeseen consequences.

Sadly, not enough to save me from new experiences with them.

 

[ChrisWoj]

In security, you might want to weigh the effect of diminishing returns. Basic installation (cement ball, locking collars) discourage lazy thieves and vandals. Nothing will deter the most committed ones. At what point is the extra effort no longer worthwhile?

Also, in making them as permanent as possible, you might consider the possibility that one day you have to move one -- for upgrades or repair of vandalism or some unforeseen actions by the park. If make it too secure, you might come to regret it.

One thing I have not seen mentioned is how do you replace the baskets 20 years down the road?

It nice to make them permanent, but eventually they will have to come out of the ground one way or another.

Great suggestions so far on how to secure them.

Right now it looks like welding and rebar inside the pipes will be the pieces we focus on for security during the install.

 

[Sewer bill]

A little background, I am often tasked with reinstatement of easement and fire roads who have fallen into disrepair or complete neglect so that I can bring in heavy machinery for sewer and stormwater pipe repairs.

I often have to cut down front gates and reinforced fencing nearly flush at the ground who at their time of install were designed to withstand someone trying to push or pull them out with a 4wd truck or small excavator.

Think 6" square tube with 1/2"-5/8" wall thickness usually several feet deep with a yard or more of concrete poured around and filled with concrete.

With a 2 gallon pump sprayer and ONE 5amp hour 18v battery reciprocating saw and ONE carbide blade I can take down a 6x6 steel post filled with cement or sand in 20 minutes, silently, the water cooling dampens and nearly eliminates the high pitch rasp of the saw and simultaneously let's me put even more downpressure on the material for higher chip loading. For a basket pole of good quality like 1/4" thick and 2" diameter I'd wager it takes less than 2 minutes total.

Thieves these days have access to cutting power right off the shelf of a box store that previously could only be rivaled by mobile equipment repair rigs. Previously, I'd have needed to drag out my 500 amp welder generator truck and air arc rig and trailer an air compressor to take down gate poles, now, I can do it all out of a duffle bag that fits in my passenger seat.

Thieves while normally lazy opportunists, in the case of stealing baskets, are the not desperate types who bulk load ferrous scrap, the kind who steal handrails from businesses that are open 7 days a week, the kind of thieves who will find the opportunity because you have better things to do than watch your baskets and they have all the time in the world and your baskets are just a footnote in their portfolio of work to do.

If I wanted your baskets, there's nothing you could do short of having an armed officer sitting in a lawn chair next to them to stop me, and I'm minimally equipped and extremely lazy.

My only suggestion that could actually cause real trouble for a thief is paint a couple co2 canisters in cosmoline for corrosion protection and drop a couple down the pole so if someone tried to cut it off they'd eat a face full of their cutting swarf at several thousand psi when they puncture the cannister. By having several small ones there's several opportunities to ruin someone's day for trying to cut through the pole.

Or just accept that they might get stolen and it might be easier to just go to all your local junkyards and give them pictures of your baskets and tell them to call you and the police when they're rolled through the scale on a trailer.

Modern carbide blades have contributed to ease of theft on levels nobody could forsee. It's why catalytic converter theft is through the roof. Skilled thieves in my area around baltimore are nearly silent about it and some of them that were caught actually had custom brazed variable pitch tooth blades that cut round tube better than single pitch so they're also learning from machinists about feeds and speeds and tooth geometry.

They'll work harder to steal than actually having a job and until we offer real consequences for theft this problem will have no end in sight.