Bent arm reachback vs fully extended reachback

[NoseDownKing]

What do you guys think about it? Calvin, Ricky and Seppo all have a bent arm reachback, but throw freakishly far. Simon, GG, Wiggins and many more have a more fully extended reachback and also throw ridicilously far. Seems like both work, but does one or the other have an advantage over the other?

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[sidewinder22]

IMO the pendulum is easier to learn sequence as you can relax and freewheel everything.

I think it's harder to learn with bent arm and less distance potential. People tend to tense up too much.

 

[Sheep]

The amount of backswing has hardly anything to do with the amount of distance you throw.

One of the old adages was really long reach back to throw really far. Well, that's completely false, and will probably have you throwing less far.

If your body is setup and loaded properly and you're using good upper body mechanics, you will throw far.

Trying to copy pro's throwing is a bit fruitless. We can look to them for swing theory, but every person will have their own uniqueness to their swing. So trying to copy somebody else vs building your own will only cause you grief, as you're body isn't theirs.

 

[Brychanus]

^ Only a couple thoughts to add:

On the one hand, it seems wise when starting out or rebuilding form to not try to carbon copy pros whose bodies are different from yours and whose mechanics are much more developed than your own.

However, I would challenge the notion that sometimes emerges that there is an endless list of different sets of fundamental mechanics among top throwers.

For instance, regardless of backswing style, the top pros appear to all have similar postural and mechanical sequencing. The pendulum school of thought exploits and teaches those commonalities.

The variations across pros probably separate the shared fundamentals from the person-specific or circumstantial or more advanced tricks they have learned.

 

[BillFleming]

I've been trying both in the field.

Full reachback...seems to work the best so far, but finding the right amount of 'full' is my problem. Reaching back too far and too fast has caused me to hyperextend my elbow.

Bent arm...when I do this, I also need to turn my wrist more (so the knuckles point to my chest on reachback) or I lack power. Turning the wrist more seems to add spin that is lost by not doing the 'full' reachback.

I'm trying to find the happy middle between those two.

 

[Sheep]

I've been trying both in the field.

Full reachback...seems to work the best so far, but finding the right amount of 'full' is my problem. Reaching back too far and too fast has caused me to hyperextend my elbow.

Bent arm...when I do this, I also need to turn my wrist more (so the knuckles point to my chest on reachback) or I lack power. Turning the wrist more seems to add spin that is lost by not doing the 'full' reachback.

I'm trying to find the happy middle between those two.

Stop reaching back, it will probably fix most of your issues.

If you're "reaching" back, you're already throwing yourself out of time, vs walking the disc out.

gosh, there is a few good video's from sidewinder on this one.

Look at the weird pool que one.
And he has one where its the rope to the wall thing.

As soon as you try and drive the disc backwards by "reaching" you will throw yourself out of time.
I know there are some pro's that do it, but they have basically been doing that for 10 years and thats how they learned and they had to build their swing around their mistake.
And you dont want to work around mistakes, because it's harder to make corrections elsewhere as those mistakes can compound other issues.

 

[TractorFox]

Look at the weird pool que one.
And he has one where its the rope to the wall thing.

He's in for the tag!

 

[Brychanus]

.
And you dont want to work around mistakes, because it's harder to make corrections elsewhere as those mistakes can compound other issues.

This well describes me - 9 months digging myself into a pit and 9 months and counting digging back out w/ coaching. Sometimes it really is better just to start over, but mileage probably varies depending on how tangled up the mechanics are.

 

[Sheep]

This well describes me - 9 months digging myself into a pit and 9 months and counting digging back out w/ coaching. Sometimes it really is better just to start over, but mileage probably varies depending on how tangled up the mechanics are.

With the uniqueness of everyones body and ability, it sometimes important to find their stride and then work with that limitation, even if its wrong. Build from their current mechanics and fails and choosing the things to assist a player properly is the hardest part of coaching and the most important part.

Sometimes the issue is footwork as to why their upper body doesn't work right, and I see a lot of people trying to help doing form stuff, but they are providing bandaids, not fixes. Addressing the root cause is the most important part. And a lot of people if you let them roll with what they got going on and they want to get better will watch when they play with better players.

This was one of the biggest wins of my Pro/Am doubles I started last year at a local course. We had a handful of new players, and the best way to get better is to play with some encouragement and watch others succeed and then tell yourself "i want to do that" and ask for help or work on it.

But the key there is wanting to get better and wanting to ask the questions.
2 months of this pro/am doubles thing and almost everyone was like "I dont want to suck" and got waay better, now its just straight draw doubles with no pro/am thing going on, and its amazing to watch people get better and better because the play is non consequential, as in, were not playing for money like other courses, and watching people want to suck less and improve or ask questions. New players who can bearly throw within 2 months are doing great for a 2 month player, even better usually.

So, working with the mistakes and driving them in the correct way can help vs trying to frustrate somebody with starting from scratch, which will ruin their love for the game sometimes.

Though, I get the wanting to start from scratch thing, but the issue comes down to ingrained muscle memory. It will want to sneak in on you unless you have the utmost craziness of discipline to drill it out thousands of times correctly to overwrite the datalog.
And, I don't. hahaha.
I'm lazy, so I apply that lazieness to the ways i teach, how can i help somebody improve with the easiest of tips/coaching to gain the most improvement.

thanks for the backup on the video's.
The pool que thing was probably my favorite. I was doing something similiar with a bungie cord tied to a door handle at one point. It helps you learn to walk the disc out and that is good, because slamming the disc back in a litterall form of "reach back" exerts a ton of energy, can damage your body, and sets you up for failure to an extent
There are people who make it work like I said, but they have built around this, vs built from a solid foundation of rhythm and control.