The increasing advent of Elbow Injuries ...

[biscoe]

There is no misconception. Pro golfers used detailed maps, disc golfers don't because they aren't available.

I am talking about a book full of highly detailed maps. Not the rules and other text. No one has done that yet.

They often won't read the Cliff notes, not sure why they would read the whole book.

 

[Drumba]

View attachment 335012

Elbow injuries are becoming more and more of an apparent issue from players who are wearing sleeves and what not, or just battling with these injuries over and over again.

In the pursuit of distance and power, something has to give. The elbow is the weak point in powerful form. But what really is it in these guys forms that just is really wrecking the elbow?


People constantly swoon over Calvin and his ability disc golfing. Something has never quite felt right to me about his game. He does throw some outright amazing shots, but as we now know, those shots have taken a toll on his health.

So, we have eagle with issues due to his abusive and careless use of his body, Calvin and a few others who I believe are toughing it out and not saying anything.

And I don't think that a lot of this is coming from "forehands" only. I think it's coming from pushing backhands far to hard as well. Simon ended up hurting his elbow from doing backhand trickshots. So, that really tells us that part of the technique they are using is hyper extending the elbow in some fashion on the backhand as well.

Maybe we should look into calvins power form and see what things he's doing that might be damaging peoples bodies.
Everyone is always on the quest for "more," but I think its important that we also be on the quest for "less" in the injury department. As we have constant amounts of youtubers out there who have played for 5 days and are making coaching and form video's teaching you how to do secret methods and double moves to throw 500 feet.

The elbow isn't that weak in a proper backhand because it's a hinge joint that is doing what it's supposed to be doing- flexion and extension with parallel force. With a forehand the elbow isn't just flexing and extending, as perpendicular forces are being put on the joint.

I echo everyone else saying it's repetitive force. A 500' shot is 150% effort for us, but for Calvin he's not exactly stressing to get there. Sometimes you get old, and years of being a teenager and treating your body as such will catch up to you. Eventually your body can break down. It's the same story with baseball pitchers. Eventually that pitch count gets very high.

Best wishes to Calvin for a speedy recovery. A lot of players look burnt out from last year, so I hope he can feel refreshed after some rest and rehab.

 

[Casey 1988]

Highly detailed maps still won't help with trees/woods.

I'd get into it a lot more but that's not even close to the topic of conversation.

If players used at least a book giving some rules on how to play specific holes for OB or what way a mandatory throw is on courses where a marking is not super clear but clear enough for rules to make sense, we would not have a problem of super long waits for an official as group can't decide on a majority besides one player who is over allotted time for a putt at every basket or when X player wants to take a long time walking from hole to disc, or disc selection.

 

[Casey 1988]

The elbow isn't that weak in a proper backhand because it's a hinge joint that is doing what it's supposed to be doing- flexion and extension with parallel force. With a forehand the elbow isn't just flexing and extending, as perpendicular forces are being put on the joint.

I echo everyone else saying it's repetitive force. A 500' shot is 150% effort for us, but for Calvin he's not exactly stressing to get there. Sometimes you get old, and years of being a teenager and treating your body as such will catch up to you. Eventually your body can break down. It's the same story with baseball pitchers. Eventually that pitch count gets very high.

Best wishes to Calvin for a speedy recovery. A lot of players look burnt out from last year, so I hope he can feel refreshed after some rest and rehab.

Same for Shoulder injury it is overuse unless we are seeing person mess up going too fast with heavy item.

 

[Sheep]

Highly detailed maps still won't help with trees/woods.

I'd get into it a lot more but that's not even close to the topic of conversation

While I would like "better" maps, I don't think overly detailed maps will be a game changer in any sense of the desire.

I think we could do better though. Having reference distances on the maps at least.

Disc golfers are not interested in to much information. You could spend 3 weeks making the best maps ever, and still only 10-15% of players are going to look. It's not necessarily what's available or not. They are just lazy. If they are to lazy to look at a tee sign or the caddy book to figure out something that doesn't look right to them, despite it being on the tee sign, the caddy book and in the players meeting. Then they are not going to look at the caddy book with the best maps available to them either.



Lets throw in this hole for instance, which was so bad that we had to re-design the hole because players coudln't figure out the rules.

Now, I'll give a level of reality back to the players because the people who roped off the 806.04 area's didn't use a different color rope/flag/marker.

But the information IS THERE to tell you what that area is, There were also signs at the area telling players to play it as 806.04 and why.
Guess who had to stand there and help players because they couldn't read the caddy book, tee sign or the signs at the hazard area's.

There is a protected cactus in those area's that is endangered. So we didn't want people playing there for fear of damaging them or them getting hurt on a cactus.

Now if we want to nitpick about "better signs," what can you truly improve on. So the first dogleg should have a distance marker. The main obstacle should have a distance marker.
But the tree lines and all the info on the hole otherwise is accurate. That is where the tree's and bushes are. Even displaying by black marks main tree's on the initial gap on the fair way to indicate something.

And yes, you can 2 this hole if you figure out the shot.
And the pro's could not. I had a 50 foot putt for 2 and I'm just a bozo who see's lines like Simon does that doesn't have simons power. (the shot is a forehand flex)
The other reason this hole was moved is because the pro's hated it. And... it is in theory a really really bad hole. But what they designed after this was worse.

 

[Sheep]

The elbow isn't that weak in a proper backhand because it's a hinge joint that is doing what it's supposed to be doing- flexion and extension with parallel force. With a forehand the elbow isn't just flexing and extending, as perpendicular forces are being put on the joint.

I echo everyone else saying it's repetitive force. A 500' shot is 150% effort for us, but for Calvin he's not exactly stressing to get there. Sometimes you get old, and years of being a teenager and treating your body as such will catch up to you. Eventually your body can break down. It's the same story with baseball pitchers. Eventually that pitch count gets very high.

Best wishes to Calvin for a speedy recovery. A lot of players look burnt out from last year, so I hope he can feel refreshed after some rest and rehab.

The elbow is the only joint in the throw that has a stopped hinge. And yes, a LOT of the forces of hucking a disc 75mph goes into the elbow and how your extension in the throw is driven.

All that force is exiting your arm into the disc in inertia, it's pulling on your elbow. And if you have a bad follow through, try and stop the follow through or a bunch of other things, you could be over extending that joint.

If it was simply a manor of "to much repetitive force" then... Guys like Barsby wouldn't be playing still and tons and tons of other players who've been touring far longer than calvin has been playing and don't have these issues.

 

[Spectacledbear]

When people say forehand is rougher on the elbow / shoulder i always think off Jeremy Koling and Scott Stokely. practically eblow / shoulder injury free despite throwing 90% forehands of tees on certain courses. Imagine doing that week after week on 4 round tournaments pluss practice rounds.

 

[BillyP]

View attachment 335012

Elbow injuries are becoming more and more of an apparent issue from players who are wearing sleeves and what not, or just battling with these injuries over and over again.

In the pursuit of distance and power, something has to give. The elbow is the weak point in powerful form. But what really is it in these guys forms that just is really wrecking the elbow?


People constantly swoon over Calvin and his ability disc golfing. Something has never quite felt right to me about his game. He does throw some outright amazing shots, but as we now know, those shots have taken a toll on his health.

So, we have eagle with issues due to his abusive and careless use of his body, Calvin and a few others who I believe are toughing it out and not saying anything.

And I don't think that a lot of this is coming from "forehands" only. I think it's coming from pushing backhands far to hard as well. Simon ended up hurting his elbow from doing backhand trickshots. So, that really tells us that part of the technique they are using is hyper extending the elbow in some fashion on the backhand as well.

Maybe we should look into calvins power form and see what things he's doing that might be damaging peoples bodies.
Everyone is always on the quest for "more," but I think its important that we also be on the quest for "less" in the injury department. As we have constant amounts of youtubers out there who have played for 5 days and are making coaching and form video's teaching you how to do secret methods and double moves to throw 500 feet.

The benefit of being a weekend warrior is that you don't throw enough to wear out your machinery. These guys play nearly year round, have rough schedules which puts a strain of self-care, etc. Feel for them. But, it's the competition that drives the performance improvement stuff. If not already, the PDGA ought to have a medical bus that follows the tour and give post round treatments to the pros. It's in their own interest to take care of the pros.

 

[419HondaGuy]

^^ a weekend warrior is probably more likely to be susceptible to potential injury than a touring pro player that is conditioned for reps along with being more likely to possess better form form overall.

 

[Richard_Rasch]

Highly detailed maps still won't help with trees/woods.

I'd get into it a lot more but that's not even close to the topic of conversation

Oh, I'll keep talking about it and thanks for gatekeeping! BTW...no one is getting injured ripping 500' drives in the woods.

 

[seedlings]

On Coverage today, Ohn said she has to throw every shot at 100%. Surprised, in her 40s that she hasn't had more elbow trouble.

 

[biscoe]

On Coverage today, Ohn said she has to throw every shot at 100%. Surprised, in her 40s that she hasn't had more elbow trouble.

What was her injury latter part of last year? (I can't remember which part of her arm)

 

[Sheep]

When people say forehand is rougher on the elbow / shoulder i always think off Jeremy Koling and Scott Stokely. practically eblow / shoulder injury free despite throwing 90% forehands of tees on certain courses. Imagine doing that week after week on 4 round tournaments pluss practice rounds.

Forehands in general are harder on the elbow for sure. But it also depends on if youre ripping forehands, or flying forehands. And guys like Koling and Hokom fly forehands, they are not ripping them.

The benefit of being a weekend warrior is that you don't throw enough to wear out your machinery. These guys play nearly year round, have rough schedules which puts a strain of self-care, etc. Feel for them. But, it's the competition that drives the performance improvement stuff. If not already, the PDGA ought to have a medical bus that follows the tour and give post round treatments to the pros. It's in their own interest to take care of the pros.

^^ a weekend warrior is probably more likely to be susceptible to potential injury than a touring pro player that is conditioned for reps along with being more likely to possess better form form overall.

Agreed, That's how I blew my shoulder out 3 times, basically as a casual weekend warrior style golfer, 2 or 3 times a week. bad form. Kept blowing my shoulder out cause I was muscling and arming the disc.

And... I don't think its any responsibility of the PDGA whatsoever to provide medical care to the athletes, They are a governing body. That should be on the MFG's if they want to do that.
Also, DGPT pays Seth Muncie to be at most of these larger events.

Oh, I'll keep talking about it and thanks for gatekeeping! BTW...no one is getting injured ripping 500' drives in the woods.

Nobody gatekeeping in here, just people making dumb comments.

 

[seedlings]

What was her injury latter part of last year? (I can't remember which part of her arm)

Yes. From coverage, it's still kinda nagging her. Based on ape index, she puts as much stress as anyone on those joints.

 

[itlnstln]

What was her injury latter part of last year? (I can't remember which part of her arm)

I think it was her shoulder. Backhands were giving her trouble; forehand felt fine

 

[BogeyNoMore]

^^ a weekend warrior is probably more likely to be susceptible to potential injury than a touring pro player that is conditioned for reps along with being more likely to possess better form form overall.

While I understand your logic here, touring pros spend a lot of time learning courses and conditions. Plus they seem to change manufactures more frequently, resulting in more throws learning new molds, flight characteristics and dialing in new bags.

Repetitive motion injuries are real. I'd be surprised if the sheer # of reps doesn't significantly offset the benefit of better conditioning.

Plus a lot of weekend warriors have other activities and/or regular exercise programs that might help them stay in shape.

Not totally discounting your statement, just saying they throw a helluva lot more than most of us do.

 

[Sheep]

While I understand your logic here, touring pros spend a lot of time learning courses and conditions. Plus they seem to change manufactures more frequently, resulting in more throws learning new molds, flight characteristics and dialing in new bags.

Repetitive motion injuries are real. I'[COLOR=var(--text)]d be surprised if the sheer # of reps doesn't significantly offset the benefit of better conditioning.

Plus a lot of weekend warriors have other [/COLOR]activities and/or regular exercise programs that might help them stay in shape.

Not totally discounting your statement, just saying they throw a helluva lot more than most of us do.

I think its important to recognize that lots of good movement is not as hard on your body. But it's important to also understand that even a casual weekend of bad movements can outright wreck you.

This is why good form stuff is so important and why I brought up the thread. Is Calvin doing something form wise that could be leveraging his elbow harder than necessary?

Your weekend warriors with bad form are destroying their bodies and joints, but because they are playing maybe 1 round a week, sometimes 2, they think that shoulder soreness is because of the exercise of disc golf. Not because their form is really bad and they are arming the disc.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I think its important to recognize that lots of good movement is not as hard on your body. But it's important to also understand that even a casual weekend of bad movements can outright wreck you.

This is why good form stuff is so important and why I brought up the thread. Is Calvin doing something form wise that could be leveraging his elbow harder than necessary?

Your weekend warriors with bad form are destroying their bodies and joints, but because they are playing maybe 1 round a week, sometimes 2, they think that shoulder soreness is because of the exercise of disc golf. Not because their form is really bad and they are arming the disc.

Excellent point.

 

[Sheep]

Alright, I figured SW or someone would try and put some breakdown in here, but I got ya'll. and..
Uhh. Calvins form is very unconventional.
And the TLDR of the 18 minute video is... "yeah, with that form i'd expect an elbow injury."

 

[Sheep]

Here is the calvin break down thread, cause its on the second page now @disc-golf-neil