The increasing advent of Elbow Injuries ...

[ChrisWoj]

I will add I do think elbow injuries are like what we are or were seeing from Pro tennis players who in one era were doing super power hitting only and had very little touch unless player could do power touch all because of main player doing super power hitting only and even rare super power with touch.

Shoulder injuries are more like pitching for pitchers or some in tennis in how they have to have some kind of rotator cuff surgery.

Did they injure their elbows with their backhands or forehands? I'd be surprised if a lot of tennis injuries came from backhand. Watching the way they load those things up, the shoulder is a nice thick protected spot for the motion to move through.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I have a theory with no evidence or sources to back it up with just my own experience as a vaguely athletic construction worker.

I think that the follow through plays an enormous amount into what type of force is being put on the elbow. When I'm warming up and loosening up I can feel the deceleration of the forearm slowly become "wider" or it has more time to slow down smoothly.

I think occasionally everyone has a tight day where they just have less range of motion and even with stretching their body just isn't up for it. For most of us that means just don't throw so hard and it's no big deal, for pros, they'll just push through it and cause a tiny injury that they never give time to heal from and build on it until it's a big problem.

Range of motion is everything and it's why I hate most of the youtube vids that say do this to throw x amount of feet because none of them touch on the fact that it may only take a couple of months to throw 400+ but it takes an unathlethic person years to develop the flexibility to not hurt themselves.

Most disc golfers don't stretch enough and I have seen several pros throughout the years stumble out of their cars or hotel rooms still in a weed coma from the previous night and start bombing drives.

I know that reps is probably what wrecks most pros throwing arms but I do suspect that some of them push it when they should be backing way down and stretching more often.

I also suspect because everyone has different arm lengths and shoulder width that some people are anatomically more susceptible to hyperextention.

I'm with this.

Those days just happen. It could be a short string of days where you kinda unconsciously fail to hit a sufficient amount of hydration. Or playing through an injury that caused some swelling without icing it down or using an NSAID.... Just those little things. You can make them incredibly rare if you really treat your body carefully.

And with enough money (see the top of the NBA) you can limit how long those stretches you gotta be careful last.

 

[Sewer bill]

I'm with this.

Those days just happen. It could be a short string of days where you kinda unconsciously fail to hit a sufficient amount of hydration. Or playing through an injury that caused some swelling without icing it down or using an NSAID.... Just those little things. You can make them incredibly rare if you really treat your body carefully.

And with enough money (see the top of the NBA) you can limit how long those stretches you gotta be careful last.

Proper hydration is definitely overlooked.

 

[Sheep]

Soon someday I see people playing Pro Tour where players are playing on world's longest true 18 or 20 hole course of a permeant disc golf course, the one in Alaska or Canada, I forget.

My stupid town set that record for a tour stop. The pro's hated every minute of it and complained.

Johansen wont even come here again to play our tournaments because of it. It wasn't really disc golf, it was an endurance run it was so effing long, and the course was outright garbage. But that's what we get for letting an idiot keep designing for MCO

 

[Sheep]

Proper hydration is definitely overlooked.

Nutrition in general is overlooked by almost all disc golfers.

People dont realize the amount of time you need to start eating before you need it as well.

 

[RAHfrolfer]

View attachment 335012

Elbow injuries are becoming more and more of an apparent issue from players who are wearing sleeves and what not, or just battling with these injuries over and over again.

In the pursuit of distance and power, something has to give. The elbow is the weak point in powerful form. But what really is it in these guys forms that just is really wrecking the elbow?


People constantly swoon over Calvin and his ability disc golfing. Something has never quite felt right to me about his game. He does throw some outright amazing shots, but as we now know, those shots have taken a toll on his health.

So, we have eagle with issues due to his abusive and careless use of his body, Calvin and a few others who I believe are toughing it out and not saying anything.

And I don't think that a lot of this is coming from "forehands" only. I think it's coming from pushing backhands far to hard as well. Simon ended up hurting his elbow from doing backhand trickshots. So, that really tells us that part of the technique they are using is hyper extending the elbow in some fashion on the backhand as well.

Maybe we should look into calvins power form and see what things he's doing that might be damaging peoples bodies.
Everyone is always on the quest for "more," but I think its important that we also be on the quest for "less" in the injury department. As we have constant amounts of youtubers out there who have played for 5 days and are making coaching and form video's teaching you how to do secret methods and double moves to throw 500 feet.

I think the topic should read, skinny dude with almost no muscle throws frisbee over 500' repeatedly for years and finally has an injury. How did he do it?!?!??!
Calvin has pipe cleaner arms so he's not "muscling" anything to 500+ feet. We amateurs shouldn't be picking apart his form to figure out what he did wrong, it's the other way around.
The assumption that he is abusing his body with bad form is a bit arrogant i think. Playing professional sports is by definition abusive to the body - but that's a choice people make when they want to make a living throwing frisbees.
Good luck to Calvin, I hope he can take this down time to fix his putt.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Proper hydration is definitely overlooked.

Tissues being properly hydrated means a world in injury prevention.

 

[Sheep]

I think the topic should read, skinny dude with almost no muscle throws frisbee over 500' repeatedly for years and finally has an injury. How did he do it?!?!??!
Calvin has pipe cleaner arms so he's not "muscling" anything to 500+ feet. We amateurs shouldn't be picking apart his form to figure out what he did wrong, it's the other way around.
The assumption that he is abusing his body with bad form is a bit arrogant i think. Playing professional sports is by definition abusive to the body - but that's a choice people make when they want to make a living throwing frisbees.
Good luck to Calvin, I hope he can take this down time to fix his putt.

Pro players cannot coach another player out of a wet paper bag on form, let alone correct form.

We have this wide variety of throwing styles from all sorts of different players. Does it work? Yep. Are they doing things right? Maybe. Is what we are saying and looking at correct? Well, more likely yes than not, because were taking information from 100+ sources and compiling it to try and figure out the most ergonomic and least impacting ways to play the sport so people can achieve success while playing disc golf.

The idea is to look at someones form like calvins and in turn see if they are pushing something that could be assisting in wrecking their elbow.

Yeah, I know Calvin is a stoner that isn't built like double G or Drew Gibson.... Who ... Also hurt himself golfing and IS IN SHAPE. So...

Trying to say someone who's scrawny like calvin can't muscle is absolutely ignorant. Dude has been pushing the limits hardcore for the last few years, you're over working what muscles you have regardless of your athletic build.

Were creating a lot of leverage and angles in the form to drive maximum effort into the disc.
This is why we know things like hugging yourself/ collapsed shoulder throwing is bad because its hell on your shoulder. Something like deep pocket throwing might be hard on your elbow, and this is the whole goal and point of this forum. To study and learn about form.

Now we got people in here who wanna roll in "oh look at all the nerds being nerds." Yep. Thats why people pay some of us to teach them to disc golf....

 

[Richard_Rasch]

If you watch any practice round videos you can see that it is a free for all from the tee. The discussion that's not edited out revolves around wondering what is down the fairway. Could injuries be prevented simply by reigning in practice shots and having a more strategic plan. I make detailed map so this is all going to sound biased but if a player had a better map could they make more educated shots and throw fewer of them? DGPT hole maps 'look' better than most any other hole maps in regular use. None of them show you how to play the hole. How about this instead?

 

[Sewer bill]

If you watch any practice round videos you can see that it is a free for all from the tee. The discussion that's not edited out revolves around wondering what is down the fairway. Could injuries be prevented simply by reigning in practice shots and having a more strategic plan. I make detailed map so this is all going to sound biased but if a player had a better map could they make more educated shots and throw fewer of them? DGPT hole maps 'look' better than most any other hole maps in regular use. None of them show you how to play the hole. How about this instead?

That's a really nice map and could help players make more intelligent shot decisions in practice. I would be the one to see its only 400 to the pin off the tee and try a huge hyzer and probably strain myself more than laying up the middle of the fairway though.

 

[VictorB]

I think that using more strategy and having an actual pitch count in practice could help. I don't think maps could ever help with that though. You just cannot get a feel for a course to prepare to play it at an elite level without standing on it. I do think that more pros need to consider doing a strategic walkthrough to cut down on actual throws for practice

 

[Sheep]

If you watch any practice round videos you can see that it is a free for all from the tee. The discussion that's not edited out revolves around wondering what is down the fairway. Could injuries be prevented simply by reigning in practice shots and having a more strategic plan. I make detailed map so this is all going to sound biased but if a player had a better map could they make more educated shots and throw fewer of them? DGPT hole maps 'look' better than most any other hole maps in regular use. None of them show you how to play the hole. How about this instead?

I think this is partly a caddy issue, and player stupidity issue.

But good course signs are ... not a thing.
But also a lot of dumb course design is a thing. Where designers are doing really silly things to try and "make it harder" for pro players. Vs trying to encourage good golf. So players are trying to push boundaries in shots that are not normal thrown shots so they have the birdy chance over the field.

This is one of the reasons I'm not participating in the MCO this year, I'm sick of the guy they got designing the course doing such a crappy job every year and they keep letting him come back. So I let them know. I'm out, done. I'm not participating until you get rid of this guy who's had 5 years to make a good course and they just get worse year after year with these dumb shot shapes and unnecessarily long shots that dont challenge players except in how far can they yeet the disc to give them an advantage.
Embarrassed by it. just done.

But being that I'm building a course now, I'm working out a plan/way to actually make more accurate Tee signs for my course.

I will, however, throw this bit of information in the hat on the tee signs and pro's learning/practicing the course. They dont look at the caddy book. They just go out, huck discs, say stupid shit and then play the tournament. Players dont see lines very often either. the information needs to be right in their face, because they are not going to look at the tee sign, they are not gonna look at the caddy book.

How do you know they dont look at the caddy book Wibin. Because when you have rules on the tee sign and rules even larger lettering in the caddy book, and the staff and rules officials have to explain it at least 25 times to players and groups. You know they didn't look. You could make the most informational caddy book in the world with all the best info and just outright work of art and accuracy.
10% of the field is going to look at it. And the only ones I know who look at it are the FPO players.

"what tee pad do I play from?" is one of the most common ones. You gotta respond back, "did you look at the caddy book? It's listed in there where to play from." And they get mad at you. Well, duh, it's right on the sign too. As they stand at the FPO pad confused.

This is all real stuff.

Sorry, that was a bit off track. But course design is a factor in some of these obscure shots people are trying to throw.
And then player stupidity on practice is another factor as they try and throw really dumb shots over and over again without actually scouting the hole.



Lets roll this in here. I have at least 200 rounds on this course, 300+ probably. Hole 6 cedar hill. The pro's absolutely hate this hole, and you can watch how they throw it. I know Eric hates it religiously and I've shown him how to throw the hole for birdy. I've shown multiple pro's how to throw this hole for birdy. They all wanna throw these forehands over the top. When you can just throw a forehand skip around the corner or an easy roller that all the old players throw.
Day 3 of the NT here all the pro masters guys were on the course. So I spotted hole 6 for them. I think 2 of the pro masters players didn't birdy the hole. All of them threw rollers but a few who threw putter turn overs. Then they cashed the putt and moved on. While the pro players are throwing over the top as hard as they can.
Why do pro players get hurt? cause they do dumb shit.

 

[Richard_Rasch]

I will, however, throw this bit of information in the hat on the tee signs and pro's learning/practicing the course. They dont look at the caddy book. They just go out, huck discs, say stupid shit and then play the tournament. Players dont see lines very often either. the information needs to be right in their face, because they are not going to look at the tee sign, they are not gonna look at the caddy book.

Pros don't look at tee signs and caddy books because there has never been any useful info to look at from a map point of view. The sport in general is ignoring a wealth of available detail. Ball golf uses detailed maps all the time and watching on TV you can see golfer and caddie pouring over yardage books as they work down the fairway.

 

[Richard_Rasch]

I think that using more strategy and having an actual pitch count in practice could help. I don't think maps could ever help with that though. You just cannot get a feel for a course to prepare to play it at an elite level without standing on it. I do think that more pros need to consider doing a strategic walkthrough to cut down on actual throws for practice

Maps help in ball golf. Have you seen a PGA tour level yardage book?

 

[ChrisinFL]

Turning 55 this month, injury is a big concern to me. I love playing DG, and I would hate having to give it up because of injuries. So, coaches and study guys, what are best tips so far for avoiding injury? I try to stay hydrated, always stretch out before playing, will try to add stretching afterwards as well (but easy to forget), take vitamins and supplements for joints (I have taken Glucosamine Chondroitin/MSM for many years for weak joints). In the last couple years I added Collagens for tendons/ligaments - I am an avid roller skater, and added those to help heal/protect ligaments/tendons. I did weight training many times over the years, but actually found, that even doing slow reps with good form, my joints could not handle heavy weights. Every time I got near "my limits", I would hurt an elbow, shoulder, etc. So far I have not added back even light weight training, but I might if I get convinced it will help. At this point, I think stretching and warming up is very important, but at least for me personally, concerned weight training may be more hurtful than helpful? Thanks all for sharing.

 

[Sheep]

Maps help in ball golf. Have you seen a PGA tour level yardage book?

There is a lot of misconception in the disc golf community when it comes to how PGA pro's navigate course and how disc golfers navigate courses.

I threw down a rant somewhere the other day on this and pissed everyone off. Because Disc golfers don't have caddies, they have bag carriers.

Caddies in ball golf scout the course with or without their pro, marking down yardage in the books, trying to find the best angles to direct their pro to play to give them the most elite advantage on the course so they can properly drive the ball into the green from where they are at. Making sure to help them.. blah blah, whatever.

Disc golfers dont take time to scout the course and check landing zone distances. There really is no reason to, But the attitude of a disc golfer is also that all holes must be birdyable and some other really stupid things. "oh that is a par 4." no... its a par 3. "but its 450 feet" .. yes. its a par 3. 2 shots to the green and a putt. "but then I can't birdy it."
It's not about how many birdies you get, its about how few strokes you take to get through the course. It's just not exciting to compare scores saying someone shot a 53, vs someone shot a -11. But ball golf plays far far harder than disc golf anyways. The "green" area is a joke in disc golf and the amount of rules sluffing for advantage is a whole different topic.

Pros don't look at tee signs and caddy books because there has never been any useful info to look at from a map point of view. The sport in general is ignoring a wealth of available detail. Ball golf uses detailed maps all the time and watching on TV you can see golfer and caddie pouring over yardage books as they work down the fairway.

Even when you do good caddy books, they don't look. And its annoying. They will call out officials to ask questions, its on the tee sign, its on the caddy book, it was in the players meeting. Players barely know the rules as it is. It's really pathetic when you look at how lazy the players are in some aspects of the game.
You dont see them out there with a caddy book and a caddy checking distances to try and throw layup shots to try and get a better angle on a green. Not that we even make greens like that, cause you gotta be able to throw it from the tee pad if its 500 feet and in, or they get mad and complain. (literally)

So, in turn we get a bunch of players going out throwing their arms out on the practice session.
So, that point I think is really fair on the injury topic that pro's poor judgement in practice is really hurting them physically.

I wonder if any different levels of legal drug use is affecting that as well. I know a lot of players do Adderall, and possibly some other stuff. Calvin has all the tell tale signs of Adderall during tournament play. I don't know if this would outright change the way your body responds and if it turns off some of the natural fail safes our bodies have where they start to revolt when you push them to hard.

 

[ChrisinFL]

I will say this - at 54 years old, averaging about 90 holes per week of DG walking since April 2023, I have dropped a couple belt sizes. It is helping my waistline look for sure! This from being 5' 10", 180#, and carrying maybe an extra 3-4 belt sizes, to now about 170# and an extra 1-2 belt sizes. I was never huge, but my sedentary person waistline has benefited nicely from the DG, and it is a helluva lot more fun than exercise!

 

[Richard_Rasch]

There is a lot of misconception in the disc golf community when it comes to how PGA pro's navigate course and how disc golfers navigate courses.

There is no misconception. Pro golfers used detailed maps, disc golfers don't because they aren't available.

Even when you do good caddy books, they don't look.

I am talking about a book full of highly detailed maps. Not the rules and other text. No one has done that yet.

 

[seedlings]

I will say this - at 54 years old, averaging about 90 holes per week of DG walking since April 2023, I have dropped a couple belt sizes. It is helping my waistline look for sure! This from being 5' 10", 180#, and carrying maybe an extra 3-4 belt sizes, to now about 170# and an extra 1-2 belt sizes. I was never huge, but my sedentary person waistline has benefited nicely from the DG, and it is a helluva lot more fun than exercise!

When I'm 54, maybe I'll get down to 180! I have 5+ years to drop those 30#. That, or maybe I'll finally grow another 3" to hit 6'

 

[VictorB]

There is no misconception. Pro golfers used detailed maps, disc golfers don't because they aren't available.

I am talking about a book full of highly detailed maps. Not the rules and other text. No one has done that yet.

Highly detailed maps still won't help with trees/woods.

I'd get into it a lot more but that's not even close to the topic of conversation