Best Practices PSA

[sidewinder22]

1. New Thread vs Old Thread
- If you have not started a thread in here, then by all means go ahead and start one. Just remember that this is blood in and blood out. I keed, I keed, don't take yourself or the critique/analysis too seriously or you will never make it out alive.

- If you have an existing thread in here then Do Not start a new thread. Find your old thread and post in it. This makes it easier to see changes and previous advice, and not having to repeat stuff.


2. Best Filming Practices:

- Keep camera stationary from start through followthrough/finish. Make sure to frame your whole body in the shot from feet to head. Do not cut off the finish!

- Film horizontal/landscape camera angle - Turn your phone sideways! Vertical/portrait camera angles suck! Widescreen was created for a reason - use it.

- Filming Angles - film from directly behind the tee and directly from the side of the tee you are facing during the throw. Two 90 degree 2-D camera angles allow you to better triangulate your 3-D balance. So much information is missing with only one camera angle. It is best if the camera is set at height between your navel and nips while standing upright. The more camera angles the merrier, but the others are not quite as useful. However if you can film from directly overhead/birdeye with a drone or from tree/roof of car - that is also very useful.

- Film Speed - It is best to include normal speed and slow mo, or high frame rate such as 240fps is best.


3. Best Throwing Practices:

- Throw neutral/stable putters, mids, and fairway drivers fairly flat or hyzer release angle. If you have trouble throwing your putters/mids for distance this is all the more reason to have these throws critiqued and really is the foundation to throwing higher speed discs properly as well.

- Same goes for throwing standstill, if you can't throw far from a standstill then your fundamentals are off and running through the x-step is just adding chaos and extra moving parts while trying to learn the basics.

- If Simon Lizotte can rip his putters over 500' then you know it's not a "power issue" if you turn and burn around 200' or less. It's your technique/form or lack of, and off axis/plane torque applied to the disc's trajectory causing issues/wobble.

- The "off-season" is the best time to work on things. If you are committed to working on your form, then you can not worry about scoring/performance in competition short term - be prepared to suck or be wild for a few months. If you go back into "competition mode" too early you will likely revert/regress back to old bad habits. Your "training mode" must be settled in before you can go back into "competition mode" and progress.


4. Best Form Models:

- You are best off modeling your own unique form from top pros that are physically built similar to you. You can still learn things from all the top throwers, the basic fundamentals are all there, but don't get caught up trying to mimic only one particular pro. Some pros are easier to mimic than others, and some pros do things I wouldn't advise/make it harder to learn or is a more advanced move.

- I've taken little pieces of form from numerous top pros and adapted them into my own.

Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.

Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.

If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.

Don't fear failure. — Not failure, but low aim is the crime. In great attempts it is glorious even to fail.

A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.

5. Worst Advice:

- "Keep Your Head Down or Still" - While this may be well intentioned advice and even possibly produce some short term distance results, it is a terrible swing thought to have and can lead to serious injury down the road in the longer term. Beware!

- The appearance of the "head staying down or still" has nothing to do with your head, but what is happening underneath your head with your posture and lower body. Trying to keep your head in a static position during a dynamic throwing motion is a recipe for disaster. Ball golf studies have also consistently shown that keeping the head down or still actually slows down club head speed because it restricts your natural range of motion in the spine. So if you want to throw further and stay healthy, do not keep your head down or still.

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-instruction/trying-keep-your-head-down-not-answer

 

[billyjacko]

Good stuff seabass. Do you have any advice for practicing just footwork? I practice my x-step inside, but not sure if it's really effective. Also what do you think about throwing into a net/blanket for practice?

 

[sidewinder22]

Also what do you think about throwing into a net/blanket for practice?

Unless you have a rather large area, throwing indoors can be physically restricting and also psychologically restricting. IMO indoor practice is best more focused on drills exaggerating the smaller motions and slowing things down. Closed Shoulder Drill into a net would be good.

Good stuff seabass. Do you have any advice for practicing just footwork? I practice my x-step inside, but not sure if it's really effective.

Just swing something heavy back and forth and overhead circles like in Reciprocating Dinglearm to feel the connection of the feet, body and arm like a pendulum swing/ball on string. Start swinging slowly just a few inches back and forth using your feet and body which moves the arm and feel the whip/release of the bottom of the pendulum. Then swing it out wider back and forth over and over. Most of my drills can be done inside and are more focused on the lower body. There's some other great drills in the link below as well. Also remember that drills are drills, they are often exaggerating certain parts/feelings of the throw to integrate into your overall form. If a drill isn't working, then move on another and/or video yourself doing it, analyze the difference or post it for analysis. Patience is another crux, once you feel the fundamental difference it can take years to change your balance - it's like learning to write with your opposite hand, just try wiping your butt next time with the opposite hand - at first it's hard, then gets better with practice.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119328

I'd also advise watching/studying the top pros throwing and visualizing yourself throwing like they do and mimicking them in slow motion.

- When you notice a problem, too short, too much hyzer, whatever, the best fix is to exaggerate the correction rather than try to make a tiny change. It's much easier to dial back a change than to slowly increase one.

- Keep practicing, maybe I will see you in a couple years.

- Go to a pool and throw underwater to slow everything down. This should help you throw faster when you get out of the water.

- It's just like any other sport you have to study film to stay on top of your game.

Read the technique sticky threads on here and DGR.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=5efc9b52498b5cb0c7edbc7d0dcbb45a
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119328

See how the dog is moving the fulcrum of the pendulum with his paw and it's nice and balanced - that's what your feet should be doing to your body/fulcrum of the pendulum. Think about swing theory - How do pendulums, catapults, trebuchets, bow and arrows, golf, baseball, hockey, skiing, hammer throw, apply to the throw?

 

[sidewinder22]

Grip & Wrist

Grip It to Rip It - The Ins and Outs of Grip: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancesecrets.shtml
Many people have wondered if there is one "best" grip to use. I know of at least five different grips that have been used for distance and golf championships including the power grip, fan grip, fork grip, flip the bird grip, and bonopane. What this means is that no one grip is "the" right one, so the specific grip doesn't matter. What is important is that your grip should match your finger and thumb strength.

If you do use the power grip, there is a best way to do it, though. For the fingers to be lined up correctly, the first knuckle of the index finger should be closer in line to the second knuckle of the middle finger than to the first knuckle, and so on down to the pinkie. This way the finger pads all line up with the crease in the palm. There should also be some space between the index and middle finger. Then by holding the wrist down, the disc can be in line with the forearm.

With the power grip the index finger is usually the finger that the disc rips off from. The ring finger is usually a "lock" rather than "rip" finger. The ring finger pad is the first to pop off the rim with a power grip and other grips too. If you put your ring finger on the lower part of the rim it will be easier for it to slide off and let the index rip.

Note, too, that the distance of every shot necessitates a different grip strength from short shot to long. A high degree of precision is possible if you concentrate on the hit. When you are on your game you can put the disc right on the beam at any speed or distance. Just like magic but real.

Thumb Position

The thumb position is an important part of every grip, but it is a tricky thing to explain. First realize that just as there is no "best" grip, there is also no "best" place to put your thumb. However, each grip does have a better way to do it depending on your hand size and strength. Here are the points to look for: 1) good feel for the position of the disc in your hand as far as being nose up or down, hyzer or anhyzer, 2) good lock and release to the pivot point that allows for a clean linear release and pivot to the rip point, and 3) a strong rip point with good feel. The thumb is almost always on the flight plate from close to the rim to more central.

You must realize, too, that your thumb can grip and oppose in more than one place. The various positions are the thumb pad, the first joint, the second joint, and the base. These are in order of the weakest to strongest points. As an added complication, the pressure from the base of the thumb can be translated along the rim such that it is not directly opposed but is none the less effective. Try to become aware of where the pressures are coming from, and what you are trying to accomplish with your grip, and you may find a more efficient and/or powerful grip. At the very least you may be able to focus pressure in your current grip more effectively. It should be emphasized that the grip pressure is light until the disc pivots, then the pressure becomes strong between the thumb and rip point.

Launch Position

Load your wrist and fingers lightly with the wrist down and the disc in the "launch" position so that it is only necessary to concentrate on acceleration and not form. The launch position is the position and orientation of the disc in your hand at the hit point. Regardless of whether the disc is at the hit point (launch) or in wind up, you have to hold the disc such that when it starts to pivot and rip out it will have the proper tilt and nose angle that you want the shot to have. Keep your wrist cocked down but not curled back. Your wrist should be more or less in a hand shaking position but cocked down. You also need a wrist down position to have the disc flat to avoid off axis torquing (disc flutter) and severe loss of power. If you hold the disc in the pre-pivot position, all you have to do is put it at the hit spot and the angles will already be there. It works the same for a putt or an up shot. Not everyone does this, but it makes shots easier.

The upper arm muscles should not be pre-stiffened. Only the lower arm and wrist should be stiffened and you should only be using enough tension in your wrist and fingers to maintain the orientation of the hit. The launch position includes the position of the flight plate and most importantly the back of the disc at the time of launch.

I don't grip the disc with all four-finger pads touching the underside. That means there are four variables for you to release from. I will roll three of my fingers over on top of my pinky as if I am holding a fork. Only my index finger and my pinky are touching the inside of the rim.

Here's an analogy: You're in a tug-of-war with me. Do you grip the rope in a Berkeley Grip or a rolled finger - fork grip? They would be rolled for power. The grip is the most important thing. It's the only thing separating you and the disc.

The rolled finger or fork grip is a natural hand position. You write and eat like this. The fork grip also promotes more tendon elongation in the forearm than a Berkeley Grip. The tendon elongation is what enables you to follow through at the end of the throw. You're totally extending and once you are at the end of the movement you can follow through. A lot of people with all finger pads go up and pop, stop, and don't have a lot of follow through. They're throwing with the outside of their forearm muscles that run across the top of the forearm. When you grip a disc with fingers rolled you can feel the muscles underneath the forearm working. That's a major difference in the way many people throw the disc.

On to wrist snap. Hold the disc and your wrist firm and solid like you would hold a hammer to drive a nail. Keep everything firm throughout your throwing motion and then uncock at the point of release. Just a short powerful movement. Think about this: You wouldn't bend a hammer all the way back with your wrist to get more snap or power would you? You just hold it straight out in front of you and drop it. Bam! It's the same thing for the release power in the snap. You see people cock their disc and get their elbow up in a big knot and it's unnatural.

When I'm driving a disc, be it a driver, mid range of putter, I focus on the pinch between my thumb and index finger. That is the optimal control point in the grip. That along with the palm of the hand. My thumb is pushing into the rim of the disc on an angle above where my index locks into the inner rim of the disc. this allows my other fingers to fall comfortably in behind the pinching index finger.

As far as my wrist goes, I've found that if I over extend my wrist on release I loose control. So I try to align my body with the angle I want to throw my disc so that I am snapping the disc without breaking my wrist off line. The way I feel it, I only release my wrist on the follow thru. I keep my wrist locked until release then it swings open on the follow thru(flat right?) until the disc is being released from my hand.

 

[sidewinder22]

How to properly grip a hammer - thumb on back of handle.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Haha ok so I appreciate your advice and how how this relates to disc golf... I was just googling to see if there was a recommendation on camera's/ quality I see the 240 FPS, I'm gonna have to ask for advice here soon haha.

However, the wood sheriff or whatever is giving two very poor pieces of advice.

#1 is the estwing it's a good hammer but they are hell on your body because they carry the vibration all the way through your arm/elbow. Great hammer, lasts a long time, good for ripping forms or occasional backyard use, you shouldn't end up with crippling tennis elbow over a weekend. Always follow through don't choke it back, let it do the work.

#2 do not put your thumb on the back of the hammer unless you are the sheriff of jibronietown. This will accelerate your trip to tennis elbow hell and you may actually achieve it in a weekend combining these two tips. You may not be able to disc for weeks.

Carry on... its a most awesome thread . Any other tips for videography or camera type? I'm thinking about buying a good one soon to combine with trying my old one. I figured something that does slo Mo would help.

 

[paulw]

I don't get involved with this. . . . .

As I try to gain distance in my old age and realizing my form is all wrong and having read and watched random videos, isn't the proper form just a running left-handed baseball swing? That's what it's starting to feel like. . . ?

 

[ChrisWoj]

Have you considered adding to the best practices?

One might be to save your advice - because since the new owners blocked the Internet Archive when they took over, everything here will disappear if this forum disappears. If you care about what you've written, you need to have it saved elsewhere.