[Innova] champ sidewinder variations

[Squirrilah Fish]

Anyone throw the metal flake champ sidewinders? I happened across them when browsing marshal street (2013 stamped) and was looking for a reason to not pick one up. I know in other molds metal flake are normally very OS (relatively), so was wondering if this would be the same.

Ya I have a metal, star, lite, and Gstar SW. They all fly different. Some will flip and turn, others I have to really crank in an anhyzer. So in order of flippyest to stablest
Gstar
Starlite
Star
Champ
Champ Metal Flake.

The metal flake I like when I want an S curve, and need to rip it at the same time. My best/most consistent turner is the Star Lite 157.

 

[tu-f-o]

to me, it's all about dome. I don't get into plh.
domey sidewinders have always been more overstable than flat ones, to me.
oddly, flat rocs are more overstable than domey rocs.

but these are only from my observations.
I do think that dome characteristics are speed/mold dependent.

 

[elmexdela]

to me, it's all about dome. I don't get into plh.
domey sidewinders have always been more overstable than flat ones, to me.
oddly, flat rocs are more overstable than domey rocs.

but these are only from my observations.
I do think that dome characteristics are speed/mold dependent.

ill disagree on that. ive thrown os and us domey ones. and os and us flat ones.

sampling size of about 30. about 10 new ish run ones (in the past 3 years)

 

[tu-f-o]

Ya I have more experience with star Sidewinders

 

[Timeetyo]

PLH oddity?

My Metal flake SW came in yesterday and I finally got some throws in tonight. I picked em up since I love the stability of my glow champ, but wanted something I could see in the snow. Hoping for similar / more stable for this winter.

Before I tossed them I was surprised to see how low the PLH was. Much lower than either my (flippy) star lite or (beefy) glow champ. Odd, especially after all the reading of PLH being very important.

So today was a weird day to test them. 20 MPH constant winds, gusts to 40. I grabbed my glow champ, 2 star lites, and my 2 new MF and headed to my yard. Wow...even with the lower PLH they were noticeably more stable than either my glow champ and WAY more stable than my (flippy) star lites.

Just what I wanted. Any idea why they are so stable when the PLH is so low?

 

[tu-f-o]

I think plastic stiffness also plays a role.
That's why gstar is so flippy too.
Every champ sidewinder I had that was a bit flimsy was flippy. the firm ones were OS.
same with star.

 

[dehaas]

I'd look at the shape of the wing and nose between discs. Plh matters, but I've seen destroyers, wraiths, and a couple of other molds that you'd never guess were of the same mold after looking at them side by side.

 

[elmexdela]

My Metal flake SW came in yesterday and I finally got some throws in tonight. I picked em up since I love the stability of my glow champ, but wanted something I could see in the snow. Hoping for similar / more stable for this winter.

Before I tossed them I was surprised to see how low the PLH was. Much lower than either my (flippy) star lite or (beefy) glow champ. Odd, especially after all the reading of PLH being very important.

So today was a weird day to test them. 20 MPH constant winds, gusts to 40. I grabbed my glow champ, 2 star lites, and my 2 new MF and headed to my yard. Wow...even with the lower PLH they were noticeably more stable than either my glow champ and WAY more stable than my (flippy) star lites.

Just what I wanted. Any idea why they are so stable when the PLH is so low?

what the hell...

yeah take profile comparison pics

 

[Timeetyo]

what the hell...

yeah take profile comparison pics

Here ya go. This is vs. my glow champ. The glow champ is also beefy for a SW, but no nearly as much as the MF.

The obvious thing that stands out to me (other than PLH) is the dome. MF is very domey where my glow is pretty flat.

 

[tu-f-o]

did I call it or what lol

dome definitely adds stability to a sidewinder. I'm actually with Feldberg when he says those "heartbeat" discs hold longer (ie, more stable)

 

[Kodachrome]

The rim profile looks different...

 

[Aim For The Chains]

The rim profile looks different...

yeah could be the photo but im seeing concave wing vs flat.

 

[Kodachrome]

yeah could be the photo but im seeing concave wing vs flat.

Yeah, it looks like a sidewinder x.

 

[Timeetyo]

Yeah, it looks like a sidewinder x.

What is that?

Not sure if it helps - but its tourney stamped from 5/18/13

 

[Kodachrome]

It was an analogy...there is no such thing as a sidewinder x...but compare an eagle x to an eagle L and you see that the eagle L has no lip on the rim like an eagle x does. So your sidewinder to a regular sidewinder looks like a sidewinder x. Like it had a lip added to stabilize it.

 

[slowplastic]

I'm glad this thread exists...makes me feel like I'm not all noodley for thinking my newly acquired 175g domey JL champ Sidewinder is pretty stable. I was expecting a pretty easy roller disc (I threw a beaten in star Roadrunner once on a high steep hyzer and it still turned all of the way over...which I never expected), and I thought this would be about half as understable as a Roadrunner.

Turns out if I didn't own an Opto Saint and know exactly how it behaves, you could have put a Saint stamp on this thing and I would have believed you. Same speed, plastic feels just like Opto (gummy, flexy, very nice), and I would rate it as 9/5/-1/2 (definitely not -3/1!!!). My Saint has been in the bag for a while and it's dead straight from hyzer flips without any fade, or it can take turnovers that hold. The Sidewinder with the same power can be thrown dead flat, and it acts like a mellow Destroyer (ride right a bit, mellow hook up and banking fade to the left of aim).

It is not what I expected at all, but it does fly nice. I am still shocked at how the Saint has an "overstable" stamp on it (although it's well known it's straight-stable from users) and that the Sidewinder is labelled at -3/1 although I do realize that it's not corrected for different plastics.

This thing may overlap a bit in my bag, but it should co-exist with the Saint as over/under stable versions of the same style disc. I don't know why these aren't more popular and people jumped all over Saints. They're almost the same it seems and the SW handles wind better. I'll have to see how it beats in I guess, but the Saint definitely lost stability (as it's now my straight/turnover fairway control driver).

 

[slowplastic]

And just wondering...how much stability do these lose? The only champ discs I currently have are in super beefy molds (Firebird, XCal) so it's hard to notice much difference over time. Plus those get absolutely abused with the types of shots that they are used for.

 

[tu-f-o]

from my experience, if they're pretty beefy champs, they won't flip until a long time.
Stars tend to have earlier flight changes. Also domes play a big role for sidewinders.

 

[Puckstopper]

Here ya go. This is vs. my glow champ. The glow champ is also beefy for a SW, but no nearly as much as the MF.

The obvious thing that stands out to me (other than PLH) is the dome. MF is very domey where my glow is pretty flat.

That's just crazy. Not what I'd have expected at all based on the profile pics. I'd love to find some old, US, PFN Sidewinders. I love my Mongoose, but Champ plastic would be better for rolling than Icon is.

 

[MrMange]

I have a champ 175 Sidewinder which I bought quite soon after I started playing discgolf, and I've always felt like it taunts my self-esteem, just couldn't throw it flat and have it turn.. Sure I most certainly have form issues and not allot of power. But then I switched to a G* and it's like a different disc. G* I can throw flat uphill and still have it turn slightly.

So this thread confirms what I've thought, appears some champ sidewinders are quite "beefy".