Charlotte NC, 3 more in April?

[Stan McDaniel]

There is already a thread for Bradford (one of the 3 aforementioned). So I thought I would plug two other courses well under construction in Charlotte.

R.L.Smith Park is on the West side of Charlotte near the airport. Course designers are Craig "Wit" Whitney and Chris "CTP Picerno. They have done a great job with a great piece of property. Most of the initial cutting is done and perhaps only one more hole to cut. Lots of effort being made in dragging stuff now and cutting stumps. Creeks will be in play on at least 6 holes. Lots of cool elevation. Two greens in boulder clusters. As is the case in most of our courses, this course only has two holes you could call open holes. The rest are in the woods.

"The" Idlewild, South Idlewild, Girls gone Idlewild, the Scrapyard, or whatever we decide to call the course at our Idlewild Park will be a wooded course, except for the two water holes that will also feature woods. Did I mention woods? This course will be on the east side of Charlotte. There is not a lot of elevation in this park but course designers Rob "Chainsaw" Kelley and Ralph "El Presidente" Vickers have done a great job of utilizing what terrain there is and creating an excellent design. A third or so is in a heavy pine forest and the rest is in mostly mature hardwoods.

Both these courses are progressing at the same rate and Bradford is right there with them. We will have a grand opening of these three courses on the same day, hopefully in April. We will have all poles in the ground and then on the set day we will dress them up with hardware.

Four other courses are still in stages of approval and we have our fingers crossed. Winget, a Sam Nicholson design, is only an email away from cranking up. Wm Davie, mine, is not too far away. Two courses in Davidson, Fisher and Allison, are in the political stratosphere and we can only hope! Fisher would be my design and Allison will hopefully be a collaboration of David "Wheetie" French, Cam Todd and Dave Brackett.

 

[Peterb]

you all make me sick with envy: the bay area has amazing weather for year round DG but the NIMBY factor when trying to get new courses is so huge here. What have you done in NC to mollify the neighbors?

 

[Stan McDaniel]

you all make me sick with envy: the bay area has amazing weather for year round DG but the NIMBY factor when trying to get new courses is so huge here. What have you done in NC to mollify the neighbors?

We don't have any bays here so there is not that much need for mollification. Actually, one of the things that assists us in gaining approval is the organization of our park department. I get to attend buhjillions of meetings, but one of the first approvals I get is from the Citzen's Advisory Council. These are volunteers from the community, community representatives. I get to pitch the sport and all the good stuff that we bring to the park. I dispell fears of clear cutting forests ( have you played my wooded courses?) and give them a proper sense of the magnitude of impact that a disc golf course will have in a park. I field all their questions and after discussion they are always in agreement that disc golf would bring value to the park and community. I have spent 25 years building a relationship with park staff and it helps when pitching for more courses. Diplomacy and tact with a good battle plan make the difference.

We have room for you here in Charlotte. The weather aint that bad!

 

[Peterb]

We don't have any bays here so there is not that much need for mollification. Actually, one of the things that assists us in gaining approval is the organization of our park department. I get to attend buhjillions of meetings, but one of the first approvals I get is from the Citzen's Advisory Council. These are volunteers from the community, community representatives. I get to pitch the sport and all the good stuff that we bring to the park. I dispell fears of clear cutting forests ( have you played my wooded courses?) and give them a proper sense of the magnitude of impact that a disc golf course will have in a park. I field all their questions and after discussion they are always in agreement that disc golf would bring value to the park and community. I have spent 25 years building a relationship with park staff and it helps when pitching for more courses. Diplomacy and tact with a good battle plan make the difference.

We have room for you here in Charlotte. The weather aint that bad!

I can't just give up here in the bay. I've been to a lot of public meetings and the people here generally don't like the idea of disc golf coming into what they view as their private sanctuaries. We've tried to dispel a lot of misinformation but the NIMBYs keep the BS coming. You have the benefit of 25 years relationship and that is a huge difference. I'll take your advice to heart though, and we will keep up the diplomacy and tact in our quest for more bay area courses!

 

[optidiscic]

I showed PeterB some of our PA courses and recently played some of those Stan Mcdaniel courses so I feel compelled to chime in.....Cali seems to have the same problem NJ has.....too many people/land value is too high/very small local parks and very protected state and county parks/. North Carolina seemed to me to have these huge sprawling parks where disc golf would only put a dent in the land available.
In PA we typically have our best courses in State Parks.
In Cali I imagine environmentalist and rich locals can block anything
NC is blessed to have Stan and his 25 yrs of experience.....was Innova there b4 Stan was building courses or vice versa?

 

[Myers]

Great work Stan and all the NC guys. can't wait to check em out! see ya at the Worlds in 2012!

 

[Peterb]

I showed PeterB some of our PA courses and recently played some of those Stan Mcdaniel courses so I feel compelled to chime in.....Cali seems to have the same problem NJ has.....too many people/land value is too high/very small local parks and very protected state and county parks/. North Carolina seemed to me to have these huge sprawling parks where disc golf would only put a dent in the land available.
In PA we typically have our best courses in State Parks.
In Cali I imagine environmentalist and rich locals can block anything
NC is blessed to have Stan and his 25 yrs of experience.....was Innova there b4 Stan was building courses or vice versa?

The park we're gunning for isn't huge (107 acres) but it is almost deserted and very few people actually pay to use the park. They have extensive picnic grounds which get used but the course design plays nowhere near any of that. This is simply a case where the neighbors are fighting it because they don't want anyone in the park...

I AM totally down for a NC roadie to check out all of the best courses in the state. Did they punish you like Nocky Opti?

 

[chain-addicted]

..... Did they punish you like Nocky Opti?

opcorn:

 

[optidiscic]

NC is worth the trip...I played awful there but even on my best day I wouldve been getting whooped up pretty good. Nevin was an excellent course and my fav of the worlds courses I checked out.

You know nothing compares in my mind to Nocky but I might be biased

 

[Stan McDaniel]

I showed PeterB some of our PA courses and recently played some of those Stan Mcdaniel courses so I feel compelled to chime in.....Cali seems to have the same problem NJ has.....too many people/land value is too high/very small local parks and very protected state and county parks/. North Carolina seemed to me to have these huge sprawling parks where disc golf would only put a dent in the land available.
In PA we typically have our best courses in State Parks.
In Cali I imagine environmentalist and rich locals can block anything
NC is blessed to have Stan and his 25 yrs of experience.....was Innova there b4 Stan was building courses or vice versa?

Interesting perspective. In my mind, most of our parks are fairly small. We don't have any disc golf in state parks here in Charlotte. For instance, when I travel to Michigan it seems there is some huge park every 10 miles. Most of the parks that we he disc golf in are community parks. They are not large enough to accomodate softball or soccer or other field events without totally removing all vegitation. For instance, Hornet's Nest Park encompasses 102 acres. The course is on about 40 of those acres. Kilborne is a 49 acre park and the course is on about 30 of those acres. Nevin is 340 acres but most is preserve and the course actually only resides on about 40 acres tops. Eastway is in a 90 acre park and the course at best in a 20 acre portion of the park.

Anyhow. I beat Innova here by two or three years. I got here in 84 and Harold came to compete in the 86 worlds where he met his wife-to-be and then moved sooon thereafter here to a place near Charlotte.

p.s. We got permission to start Sam's course, Winget, today !!! Yay.

 

[Stan McDaniel]

The park we're gunning for isn't huge (107 acres) but it is almost deserted and very few people actually pay to use the park. They have extensive picnic grounds which get used but the course design plays nowhere near any of that. This is simply a case where the neighbors are fighting it because they don't want anyone in the park...

I AM totally down for a NC roadie to check out all of the best courses in the state. Did they punish you like Nocky Opti?

Not sure about Nocki, as it has been so long since I played there, but , if you want punishment, c'mon to Charlotte!

 

[Stan McDaniel]

Great work Stan and all the NC guys. can't wait to check em out! see ya at the Worlds in 2012!

Smokin !!!!!

Will I see you in March at the VTI ??? We are going for a three-peat!!! Go team Cowbell !!!!!!!!!

 

[Peterb]

p.s. We got permission to start Sam's course, Winget, today !!! Yay.

OMG I hate you. :doh:

 

[bettsjc]

Winget!! Oh man.

For all you out of town players who make stops here in the QC to play, You've better reserve an entire week to play here to hit everything! This is all making me extremely dizzy.

To chime in on the discussion, there are only a couple parks in Charlotte(which host disc golf) where the course takes a small percentage of land. Most courses encompass most of the parks(other than tennis courts, playground, basketball courses and a ballfield or two. I'm suprised that I don't see more athletic fields in parks in the area. But Stan's point about ballfields involving the clearing out of lots of trees. Makes sense as to why I don't see more.

Quick question Stan. Saw a story on the news about renovations/modifications to Squirrel Lake Park. I know the plans keep the course open, but does the upgrades possibly include 6 new holes?

 

[Stan McDaniel]

Winget!! Oh man.

For all you out of town players who make stops here in the QC to play, You've better reserve an entire week to play here to hit everything! This is all making me extremely dizzy.

To chime in on the discussion, there are only a couple parks in Charlotte(which host disc golf) where the course takes a small percentage of land. Most courses encompass most of the parks(other than tennis courts, playground, basketball courses and a ballfield or two. I'm suprised that I don't see more athletic fields in parks in the area. But Stan's point about ballfields involving the clearing out of lots of trees. Makes sense as to why I don't see more.

Quick question Stan. Saw a story on the news about renovations/modifications to Squirrel Lake Park. I know the plans keep the course open, but does the upgrades possibly include 6 new holes?

I doubt it. Some locals didn't like disc golf going in and they lobbied against us expanding after the first 12 holes were installed. I think the bird watchers spearheaded that. Still, the only land left to expand is along the greenway and it would be pretty difficult to get in holes that do not endanger the users of that pathway or bring the neighbors back yards into play. Odds are that Squirrel Lake will remain a 12 holer.

 

[optidiscic]

Stan can you list the courses youve designed and those youve had a hand in...I recently played Renny, Nevin, Eastway, Reedy, Hornets Nest while on a New Years trip down there.

 

[Stan McDaniel]

Stan can you list the courses youve designed and those youve had a hand in...I recently played Renny, Nevin, Eastway, Reedy, Hornets Nest while on a New Years trip down there.

I will list the courses and designers for our courses here in Charlotte.

Stan's:
Hornet's Nest
Renaissance
Sugaw Creek
Elon Eager Beaver
Elon Angry Beaver
Nevin
Eastway
Stumpy Creek
Bradford (under construction)
Fisher Farm (in approval stage)
Wm. Davie (in approval stage)

Mint Hill: Alan Beaver

Reedy Creek: Alan Beaver and Steve Lambert

Kilborne: Steve Lambert (I did the long Skillborne)

Bailey Rd: Mark Huether

R.L.Smith: (under construction) Craig Whitney and Chris Picerno

Idlewild: (under construction) Rob Kelly and Ralph Vickers

Winget: (under construction) Sam Nicholson

Allison: (in approval stage) Wheetie French, Cam Todd and Dave Brackett

 

[sloppydisc]

You need to move to Raleigh. NOW!

 

[LoPan12]

You need to move to Raleigh. NOW!

Seconded!! (Prefereably the Cary/Apex area )

 

[Stan McDaniel]

You need to move to Raleigh. NOW!

Our success is deeply rooted in the leadership of the past. Alan Beaver was here in Charlotte when I got here. He and Steve Lambert lobbied the park department for courses. Alan, however, was a park employee so he walked a fine line between his job and his hobby. He helped me get a feel for how the system worked. Then I slowly began to develop relationships with park people. It takes time !! There was no quick fix here. We planted the seeds of relationship and nourished them over time and they grew. Alan and Steve got Reedy and Kilborne installed and then I got "control" of the club and away we went. I had time and energy. Even then, it took many more years for us to continually build that relationship with our park department. The bottom line is that relationships take time to build. Don't give up, just keep moving forward, with tact and diplomacy!!!!!!