Classifying Shot Shapes/Types

[Ryan P.]

I'm wondering what the best way to classify all the different shot shapes/types is. Specifically, for the average person to be able to understand.

If I list out all the shot shapes, that's easy to understand but there's no logical grouping. For instance, if the list is flex shot, hyzer flip, and thumber, that's clear (well, for people who've been around the sport). But if you wanted to list out all the shots that can be performed with a backhand or forehand swing, there's nothing in that list identifying a flex shot and hyzer flip as different than a thumber.

On the other extreme, if I split them all out into their precise nuances, I know it's too much. For instance, you could have a choice of swing type (standard vs. overhand vs. specialized), disc orientation (upside down or not), release angle (hyzer, flat, or anhyzer), disc stability (overstable, stable, understable), and height (toward the ground, downhill, normal, or high). So if someone threw a standard shot on an anhyzer release with an overstable disc right side up high into the air, it'd be a flex shot.

So what's the happy medium here? What will most people understand fairly easily without dumbing it down so much that important groupings are overlooked?


If you're wondering why, this is related to Data Driven Disc Golf

 

[ru4por]

I'm wondering what the best way to classify all the different shot shapes/types is. Specifically, for the average person to be able to understand.

If I list out all the shot shapes, that's easy to understand but there's no logical grouping. For instance, if the list is flex shot, hyzer flip, and thumber, that's clear (well, for people who've been around the sport). But if you wanted to list out all the shots that can be performed with a backhand or forehand swing, there's nothing in that list identifying a flex shot and hyzer flip as different than a thumber.

On the other extreme, if I split them all out into their precise nuances, I know it's too much. For instance, you could have a choice of swing type (standard vs. overhand vs. specialized), disc orientation (upside down or not), release angle (hyzer, flat, or anhyzer), disc stability (overstable, stable, understable), and height (toward the ground, downhill, normal, or high). So if someone threw a standard shot on an anhyzer release with an overstable disc right side up high into the air, it'd be a flex shot.

So what's the happy medium here? What will most people understand fairly easily without dumbing it down so much that important groupings are overlooked?


If you're wondering why, this is related to Data Driven Disc Golf

I just name them all after looney tunes characters.

 

[Ryan P.]

I just name them all after looney tunes characters.

Hahaha while I don't think that's answering my question I'm still interested to learn what characters go with what shapes.

 

[ru4por]

Hahaha while I don't think that's answering my question I'm still interested to learn what characters go with what shapes.

Let's just say that the old "pancake" shot that Brodie "invented" is not called a Scooby.

 

[Sewer bill]

It gets way more complicated than what you already outlined so maybe don't try to dumb it down.

Let's use a flex shot as an example.

I can manipulate the throw itself with, spin, nose angle, angle of attack, grip, speed, all within the descriptor of a flex shot that will yield drastically different flight characteristics.

 

[Sheep]

Let's just say that the old "pancake" shot that Brodie "invented" is not called a Scooby.

There is a difference between pancake and scoober.

One is above the head, one is from the chest.

 

[Sheep]

I think what is missing here in this discussion, and its something I constantly see when people talk about throwing who really have not much clue what they are talking about.

"I hyzer flip destroyers"
No you don't.
Also
Sir, this is a Wendy's.


So, we gotta look at things like "natural shot shapes" and "forced shot shapes" and I'm not sure what to really call the other one.

A natural shot shape would be throwing a disc flat and the disc does ALL the work.

A forced shot shape is what the people who think they are hyzer flipping destroyers are doing. They are forehand rolling their wrist over, or they are throwing a force annie flex. Forced being that you're encouraging the disc to things.

I guess we could call the 3rd one "under stable shot shapes"
Where we are generally using under stable discs and manipulating them in a fashion to get them to do extreme things.

So yeah.
We'd want to break them down to those three.
1 - Natural shot shapes.
2 - Forced shot shapes.
3 - Understable shot shapes.

There of course are niche categories. Rollers, overhands, etc. But these are the 3 basic shot shapes.
Because as well, there are multiple ways to throw S turn shots, and all 3 of these shot types will do it, but they all do it differently.

 

[ru4por]

There is a difference between pancake and scoober.

One is above the head, one is from the chest.

Lol....thanks for the history lesson. Like most disc golf terms, these are probably regional and have been borrowed and blended many times. For decades, we did not have social media, to clearly define definitions and ensure that truth and veracity were a guarantee.

 

[Kennets]

I think what is missing here in this discussion, and its something I constantly see when people talk about throwing who really have not much clue what they are talking about.

"I hyzer flip destroyers"
No you don't.
Also
Sir, this is a Wendy's.


A forced shot shape is what the people who think they are hyzer flipping destroyers are doing. They are forehand rolling their wrist over, or they are throwing a force annie flex. Forced being that you're encouraging the disc to things.

I feel attacked.. lol.

 

[Sheep]

I feel attacked.. lol.

Would you like fries with that? =D

hahaha.

And Wendy's.
Thefk.
There is vanilla shakes, and there are frosties. There is no fking vanilla frosty.

 

[Sewer bill]

I think what is missing here in this discussion, and its something I constantly see when people talk about throwing who really have not much clue what they are talking about.

"I hyzer flip destroyers"
No you don't.
Also
Sir, this is a Wendy's.


So, we gotta look at things like "natural shot shapes" and "forced shot shapes" and I'm not sure what to really call the other one.

A natural shot shape would be throwing a disc flat and the disc does ALL the work.

A forced shot shape is what the people who think they are hyzer flipping destroyers are doing. They are forehand rolling their wrist over, or they are throwing a force annie flex. Forced being that you're encouraging the disc to things.

I guess we could call the 3rd one "under stable shot shapes"
Where we are generally using under stable discs and manipulating them in a fashion to get them to do extreme things.

So yeah.
We'd want to break them down to those three.
1 - Natural shot shapes.
2 - Forced shot shapes.
3 - Understable shot shapes.

There of course are niche categories. Rollers, overhands, etc. But these are the 3 basic shot shapes.
Because as well, there are multiple ways to throw S turn shots, and all 3 of these shot types will do it, but they all do it differently.

I do hyzer flip destroyers though. The flippy ones or any flippy disc.

 

[foxdawg10]

Words change over time also. Flex used to be S-Shot, used to be Helix.

 

[foxdawg10]

There is a difference between pancake and scoober.

One is above the head, one is from the chest.

ru4por likes to thing he is a an expert in everything, but he is mostly huff an puff, like the wizard of oz, lolol.

I'm partial to the chicken wing shot Jerm uses from time to time.

 

[Sheep]

ru4por likes to thing he is a an expert in everything, but he is mostly huff an puff, like the wizard of oz, lolol.

I'm partial to the chicken wing shot Jerm uses from time to time.

oh god that shot makes my joints hurt to watch.

 

[Sheep]

Words change over time also. Flex used to be S-Shot, used to be Helix.

Flex and s-shot are different shots if you ask me.

 

[blayed]

Flex and s-shot are different shots if you ask me.

100% Flex is an overstable disc thrown with anhyzer. S-shot or s-curve is a disc that turns and then comes back.

@Sheep to be fair there are tons of destroyers that hyzer flip naturally. I have a ricky 2x star destroyer that gets quite a bit of turn.

Also, I would consider a roller a forced shot shape. You really are doing a limbo and "forcing the disc over" to get it down to the ground at the right angle in a BH roller. Really the same thing for FH roller. Overhand throws are natural shot shapes.

 

[foxdawg10]

100% Flex is an overstable disc thrown with anhyzer. S-shot or s-curve is a disc that turns and then comes back.

@Sheep to be fair there are tons of destroyers that hyzer flip naturally. I have a ricky 2x star destroyer that gets quite a bit of turn.

Also, I would consider a roller a forced shot shape. You really are doing a limbo and "forcing the disc over" to get it down to the ground at the right angle in a BH roller. Really the same thing for FH roller. Overhand throws are natural shot shapes.

I have seen 2 types of rollers:

- when a stable disc is forced on an extreme anhyzer so when it hits the ground it rolls

- when a very understable disc is thrown flat, flips over and hit hits the ground rolling

And yes I agree that S is thrown with a stable / understable disc, where a flex shot is throw with over stable disc.

I have heard the terms used interchangeably. I rarely hear the term S shot anymore, either in person or on coverage.

 

[Sheep]

100% Flex is an overstable disc thrown with anhyzer. S-shot or s-curve is a disc that turns and then comes back.

@Sheep to be fair there are tons of destroyers that hyzer flip naturally. I have a ricky 2x star destroyer that gets quite a bit of turn.

Also, I would consider a roller a forced shot shape. You really are doing a limbo and "forcing the disc over" to get it down to the ground at the right angle in a BH roller. Really the same thing for FH roller. Overhand throws are natural shot shapes.

I put that in "force flex" not "flex"

Big S-Curve is the hyzer flip distance flip over and curve line.
While I'd put the regular "flex", as in not a force over flex, but throw flat, slightly understable and flexes then comes back.

I think its incredibly important to define any sort of "force" level shot with the word force.

And the destroyer stuff was about the meme.

I have seen 2 types of rollers:

- when a stable disc is forced on an extreme anhyzer so when it hits the ground it rolls

- when a very understable disc is thrown flat, flips over and hit hits the ground rolling

And yes I agree that S is thrown with a stable / understable disc, where a flex shot is throw with over stable disc.

I have heard the terms used interchangeably. I rarely hear the term S shot anymore, either in person or on coverage.

Rollers are interesting topics because it takes normal disc stuff and kinda tosses it out the window. It requires techniques that are no no's for normal throwing as well.

There is a backhand turn over roller, and backhand forced roller. Forehand turnover roller and overhand roller as well. I don't know why people call overhand rollers a forehand roller, because you're throwing over your fucking head, not a sidearm. I digress.

In all honesty, as much as I love seeing an absolutely amazing shot flight in the air.
There is nothing more satisfying to me than throwing rollers and watching everyone get pissed off about it.
Because they will. Especially when you can command multiple types of roller shots with pretty much any disc.

"nobody is throwing that far" says someone in the putter round.
As I take a 2 from my envy roller at 300+

HAHAHAHA suckers.