Course trend

[KniceZ]

Been watching some recent tournament videos and it dawned on me that most of them are being played on relatively open bomber courses - on golf courses or very open grassy parks with huge fairways. I also looked at upcoming upper level events (major, national, A Tier) and noticed the same trend. Obviously there are still some select holes or events on wooded courses like Iron Hill.

But overall is DG getting away from wooded courses?

 

[DSmith]

Been watching some recent tournament videos and it dawned on me that most of them are being played on relatively open bomber courses - on golf courses or very open grassy parks with huge fairways. I also looked at upcoming upper level events (major, national, A Tier) and noticed the same trend. Obviously there are still some select holes or events on wooded courses like Iron Hill.

But overall is DG getting away from wooded courses?

No. I'm sure they are selecting courses however that showcase distance skills vs finesse skills. It could also be what type of courses they have in the region that the tournaments are shot. More open courses out in the mid west vs more wooded on the east coast.

 

[goosefraba1]

Also with the improvements in video, i think there is a definite push towards courses that are easier to capture on camera. This leads to more sportscenter top 10s.

 

[KniceZ]

Also with the improvements in video, i think there is a definite push towards courses that are easier to capture on camera. This leads to more sportscenter top 10s.

I understand that top events might want open courses since easier for better hole fly-over video and camera angles.

I was just wondering if that's the overall trend. We're talking with the local P&R director about putting in a course but all they have to work with is woods around the sports parks. The sports fields are so packed in there's very little room for safe open holes, so almost every hole has to be in the woods. But the director doesn't want to spend the money for a course if it's not going to be a course DGers want to come play.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

open courses dont get a ton of love from any real players here. I wouldn't play disc golf if all we had were wide open golf course style courses.

 

[deyo7]

open courses dont get a ton of love from any real players here. I wouldn't play disc golf if all we had were wide open golf course style courses.

I agree, I would be bored without trees...

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Hitting that perfect line or gap in the woods feels more rewarding than an ace at times lol.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There's no connection at all between the courses you might see for top level events, several which are temporary, tricked out layouts not playable daily, and their potential popularity as permanent public courses. A shorter, wooded course with several ace runs has historically had more traffic than gold level wooded or more open courses.

The open course trend for top events was more to handle potential spectators with the secondary benefit for video coverage. However, with minimal increase in spectators, it seems some promoters are okay using more wooded layouts relying on apparent increases in online viewers from video coverage which can still be done on most wooded holes. The loss of cell coverage in some wooded areas is more of a problem than the ability to get cameras in position.

 

[sjberry2017]

I understand that top events might want open courses since easier for better hole fly-over video and camera angles.

I was just wondering if that's the overall trend. We're talking with the local P&R director about putting in a course but all they have to work with is woods around the sports parks. The sports fields are so packed in there's very little room for safe open holes, so almost every hole has to be in the woods. But the director doesn't want to spend the money for a course if it's not going to be a course DGers want to come play.

There's still plenty of room for all woods courses or mixed woods and open (this new course just opened up near me and it's nearly all woods), this one and this one in my hometown which feature woods prominently, and the NT stops are going to include wooded courses (Masters Cup, PFDO, HOFC, and many DGPT tournaments like the Idlewild Open, Maple Hill Open/Vibram Open [w/e they call it], Green Mtn Champs etc]. There's no doubt that a push does exist to create longer, more open courses which are easier to film and observe as a gallery member, but a wooded course is still great for casual play and smaller tournaments, and can still host top tier events as well

 

[Shade]

Great insight from Chuck.

 

[KniceZ]

Thanks for the feedback - I realize there's more to good course design than just open vs wooded. So we're pushing to get a good designer involved.

I just want to make sure that if they put tax dollars into it that it doesn't end up not getting used or get outdated cause DG went another direction.

 

[biscoe]

DG in our area will trend towards moving more into the woods rather than towards having more open holes due to the simple fact that open land is consistently desired for other activities and most of it is used up already.

 

[JC17393]

Isn't course design in general, at least in terms of open vs wooded, guided almost entirely by what terrain is available in any given area? I mean, there is a lot more open field than forest in the Midwest, for example, compared to the Northeast or the Northwest, so courses tend to be more open there. I can't see that changing any time soon. If wooded is what you have to work with, you build the best course you can out of it. If you have fields, you use them as best you can.

A good designer should be able to create a good course out of just about any type of property.

 

[biscoe]

The property in question will make a very good course.

 

[KniceZ]

I get that you have to work with what's available. I'm not a golfer but it seems that in general their courses are pretty similar - relatively open fairways of similar width, sand traps, rolling greens, same par (that's a whole other discussion). Given what I was seeing on the videos and locations of major tournaments there seems to be a trend toward dual use (Golf and DG) courses and less woods. I was just wondering if DG is moving to a more common idea of what a top level course should be regardless of what you have to start with?

 

[JC17393]

I get that you have to work with what's available. I'm not a golfer but it seems that in general their courses are pretty similar - relatively open fairways of similar width, sand traps, rolling greens, same par (that's a whole other discussion). Given what I was seeing on the videos and locations of major tournaments there seems to be a trend toward dual use (Golf and DG) courses and less woods. I was just wondering if DG is moving to a more common idea of what a top level course should be regardless of what you have to start with?

This is where we differ from ball golf. Ball golf design asserts itself on the land rather than using what's available. But also, the design in ball golf is to provide challenges to the player's ability to get the ball in flight rather than challenges for the ball once it is in flight. Hence the flight paths are generally wide open but the playing surfaces vary greatly with varying lengths of grass (green vs fairway vs fringe vs rough), sand, and slopes. All of which impact the player's ability to address the ball and get it moving toward the hole.

In disc, it's all about obstacles for the disc to be navigated around. Having short grass versus long grass, or sand/dirt instead of grass, doesn't have nearly the impact on throwing a disc as it does hitting a ball. So trees become infinitely more important to us. We're never going to grow out of that, IMO.

The trend of larger tournaments using mostly open field courses (particularly ball golf courses) has little to do with designing to challenge top players. It is more focused on being spectator and camera friendly. It isn't indicative of a trend or a desire to move disc golf out into the open in general. By and large, I think you're going to find that most disc golfers, even top rated ones, would prefer less open air "ball golf" type courses. Maybe they don't all want tight wooded courses all the time either, but certainly a good mix as often as possible.

 

[Steve West]

I think there is one more reason for the open style of course being more popular for top events. Most courses just aren't big enough for the longest throws. Where can you fit a 600 foot throw in a park? And, if you could fit it, how much effort would it take to prepare a new 600 foot wooded fairway? Or, even to add 200 feet to what had always been "the long hole".

To get holes that are long enough, just about the only land in any city that is play-ready are the ball golf courses.

It's hard not to use the existing fairways on ball golf course. They are just sitting there tempting you to throw. Even if you try to use the treed areas off the fairways, those usually are not ready for play. Either they are too thick, or too nasty, or just not far enough from each other.

 

[Quinntastic]

I think some mounted GoPros on select trees on wooded courses would be a good route to go. Maybe 2 per hole, one fairway one basket. Then follow with cameras. I can't wait till the majestic, and whatever tourney is at Blue Ribbon pines. It'll be fun to see the technical players have an advantage on the long bomb throwers.


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[thirtydirtybirds]

The closest course to my house is open, and I rarely play it unless short on time. I prefer to play the wooded courses a little farther away. My most celebrated victories and crippling defeats are in the woods. I just think it's more fun as long as it's well designed.

 

[jeremyhilss]

In my personal playing experience, my top favorite courses have a perfect balance of wooded, technical holes, and open holes. Courses like Highbridge Blueberry and Granite, Deer Lakes, Moraine State Park, Blue Ribbon Pines, all utilize a phenomenal balance of both. I especially like long par 4's that start in the woods and end up in the open, or vice versa.

I will say though, I can get bored eventually of too many open holes in a row, whereas I can play 27 straight wooded holes (Sandy Point) and not get bored once. Just some food for thought.