Courtesy to female players in 2017 - Can it exist?

[DiscFifty]

I'm getting better at deflecting the phone number offers and handling it diplomatically. When they stare at me, I pretend like I'm invisible.

The sport is dominated by young men who mostly play with other young men. To see a woman on the disc golf, like others have said, is the holy grail for most of them. I have to admit if I was a woman, I probably wouldn't want to play solo on a disc golf course (or go hiking, walking, etc, in any park) , especially large wooded ones where you could be walking far away from the public by yourself. I would find some other women to play with or make a few male friends and play full rounds with them. Field work I would certainly do solo at a local school field, etc, etc. Contact your local disc golf store(s) and ask about local women players, minis, etc, etc. There are women players out there. If you're on facebook the process to find some female buds should be much easier.

 

[Mike C]

Hopefully you'll find better experiences in the future. I know Winget has league rounds on sunday morning, and they're a very nice group of folks. Maybe try them out sometime. The gentleman who was running it last time I went is named Tom. He's a member here, super friendly guy all around.

 

[HERB brooks]

To the OP, you ran into a pair of knuckleheads out on the course, which sucks. Its never fun to have some jerk ruin an activity that you enjoy by patronizing your ability or worse creepily muttering about your looks. As a guy I don't really have to deal with the sexy/sweetheart remarks, but unfortunately some guys are freakin creepers that think they are being smooth operators. I'm not apologizing for these morons, but we all know they exist (these are the types that would chase you around town in your car as you said earlier).

These guys are found everywhere...not just the golf course. If you really love playing don't let these jerks take it away from you. Like others said try to find some female friends who would like to play in the local club. If you have a significant other, ask them to play with you, if not ask a good male friend who isn't a creep. Don't be discouraged by inconsiderate people!

Anon, I'm sorry that you're the one who gets singled out here, because there are other posters or readers who probably need this too. Trying to discount the original poster's experience, while perhaps intended in positive context, asks them to ignore an obvious but correctable problem with how they are treated.

There's a difference between dismissing someones experience and telling them to accept that occasionally people will treat them poorly. Thats just a fact of life, some people will never take others feelings into consideration. You can let these people ruin your life, or can acknowledge that some people are jerks.

I think it's extremely important that male disc golfers acknowledge their privilege. We are currently in the majority of players. It's rare that we get catcalled or patronized because of our gender. This behavior (usually on the part of men) towards women isn't limited to disc golf, it's a systematic societal problem. Women have been fighting for equal treatment, rights, pay, and everything else for nearly forever. A huge part of our privilege is that, unless prompted, we never have to consider that others have to fight much harder to achieve the same treatment and respect. What is normal for male disc golfers is far from normal for female disc golfers. If a female asks for equal treatment, she is viewed in a negative light as "entitled" or "feminist".

On the disc golf course, the male privilege may be at its worst. We can be loud and brash because the scene is a de facto boys club. We can openly judge women because our clique of male players will join in. We feel capable of offering advice only because we may throw further than others. Loud and clear, I'm going to say that this behavior is unacceptable.

Who are you playing with, if the disc golf course is home to "Locker Room Talk"? The people I play with don't go around cat calling and bragging about conquests. There is definitely the occasional crude joke at a buddy's expense but never when around women or children (thats rude). What's bad about offering advice, I mean it may be a little douchey if unsolicited but really. Check your privilege bro

 

[jedijon]

Get over it.

Quit being sexist yourself.

Dealt with all kinds of weird crap, not a lot of gender-based crap.

Everybody deals with weird crap. Is this a pissing contest about whose crap is worse? When I say pissing contest do you cringe because that implies the word penis? We probably couldn't hang out. Uh oh, I did it again. Have fun on the DG course!

If you're dead-set on being insular, unapproachable, or otherwise ivory-towered, get a group & play with them. Psychology.

FWIW, I play solo a lot and wouldn't have said boo to you whether you're great, terrible, hot, ugly...unless you were standing on the fairway chillin'. Then I would've walked up, said "hi, I'm playing this hole and if you could move for a sec - say beyond this tree or further if that makes you feel more comfortable - I'll throw this here disc through and be gone in a moment". Take care!

 

[zontar]

as the above poster said: DON'T BE DISCOURAGED BY INCONSIDERATE PEOPLE. life is full of jerks, so don't let them have power in your life. play the game and have fun!

 

[Nova P]

Get over it.

Quit being sexist yourself.

Dealt with all kinds of weird crap, not a lot of gender-based crap.

Everybody deals with weird crap. Is this a pissing contest about whose crap is worse? When I say pissing contest do you cringe because that implies the word penis? We probably couldn't hang out. Uh oh, I did it again. Have fun on the DG course!

If you're dead-set on being insular, unapproachable, or otherwise ivory-towered, get a group & play with them. Psychology.

This is uniformly demeaning to the OP and not at all helpful.

 

[ranger]

Get over it.

Quit being sexist yourself.

Dealt with all kinds of weird crap, not a lot of gender-based crap.

Everybody deals with weird crap. Is this a pissing contest about whose crap is worse? When I say pissing contest do you cringe because that implies the word penis? We probably couldn't hang out. Uh oh, I did it again. Have fun on the DG course!

If you're dead-set on being insular, unapproachable, or otherwise ivory-towered, get a group & play with them. Psychology.

FWIW, I play solo a lot and wouldn't have said boo to you whether you're great, terrible, hot, ugly...unless you were standing on the fairway chillin'. Then I would've walked up, said "hi, I'm playing this hole and if you could move for a sec - say beyond this tree or further if that makes you feel more comfortable - I'll throw this here disc through and be gone in a moment". Take care!

I get that it's best to not let it ruin your life but we can and should improve this sort of thing.

 

[bnbanbury]

As Jedijon has been kind enough to reinforce for us, unfortunately you are going to encounter disrespectful, undeveloped people in all corners of the world. I hope that you will continue to play the game, there are certainly a ton of playing options available to someone in the Charlotte area and feel confident that there are regular club events that could work for you.

My 1st sentence is not to imply that these things just happen and there is nothing to be done about it. I think that anyone who wants to see the game grow and be a place where women are comfortable has a responsibility to address disrespectful behavior directly and try to change the culture.

 

[HERB brooks]

My 1st sentence is not to imply that these things just happen and there is nothing to be done about it. I think that anyone who wants to see the game grow and be a place where women are comfortable has a responsibility to address disrespectful behavior directly and try to change the culture.

Change what culture? Disc golf isn't the He Man Woman Haters Club. The first guy the OP dealt with probably thought he was making an innocuous comment, people say sweetheart in th south commonly. The OP was offended because while the guy might have meant well, it came across rude (I would have been rightfully annoyed too). The second guy muttering sexy to himself repeatedly is really creepy regardless of why he was doing it. I would be weirded out if I was in that situation too if I was a woman.

In neither instance would it call for PC principal to start checking micro aggressions. Now if the guy flat out told the OP you are sexy and insisted on bothering her repeatedly then you can step in as you should and ask if there's a problem.

 

[storyboy]

I think u should have given this guy the universal sign language. It would make u feel better and this "Dick Head" would think he's number #1. Then walk away with a smile.
.

 

[dashiellx]

- The "still a winner" guy, in all likelihood, was trying to be friendly and encouraging.

I'm guessing it was not the "still a winner" comment that made her nonplussed but addressing her as "sweetheart".

 

[bnbanbury]

Change what culture? Disc golf isn't the He Man Woman Haters Club. The first guy the OP dealt with probably thought he was making an innocuous comment, people say sweetheart in th south commonly. The OP was offended because while the guy might have meant well, it came across rude (I would have been rightfully annoyed too). The second guy muttering sexy to himself repeatedly is really creepy regardless of why he was doing it. I would be weirded out if I was in that situation too if I was a woman.

In neither instance would it call for PC principal to start checking micro aggressions. Now if the guy flat out told the OP you are sexy and insisted on bothering her repeatedly then you can step in as you should and ask if there's a problem.

The issue isn't as black and white as that, I'm not saying that disc golf is a women's hating club. Just because a certain outlook does not define us as a community does not mean it is not some part of our culture.

 

[Reniger]

One of the adjacent party had been observing my unlucky lies and called out something to me about the trees and called me "sweetheart" and assured me I was "still a winner."

LOL! I'm just envisioning the daggers shooting out of your eyes. A good friend of mine catches a lot of flak when she plays. With the low numbers of higher-tier women at tournaments, she often gets lumped onto a card with men. (MA1/MA2) She's told me dozens of stories of condescending or sexist behaviors, which is really a shame since she can kick most of these guy's butts. Heck, last spring at a full 72 person tournament, she registered for MA1 and took 2nd! I don't see why gender should be any issue, but, as all things in life, it always will be. Guys will be jealous. Guys will get goofy around a pretty face. Guys will try to show off. Guys will have superiority complexes. We're dumb. We know. Sorry, Queen.

 

[SonicGuy]

Look, you want to be treated equally? Great, guys are going to talk chit. It is part of our culture. If you are interacting with men and they are not making fun of you in some way they are not treating you equally.

I rocked a pink bag for a bit and I had people yelling from 600' away "faaaaaaaaggggg". Is it an endearing quality of men? No. But if you want to be a part of that world you had better get thicker skin. If you cannot handle it maybe you shouldn't wish for equal treatment.

 

[ranger]

Some really weird opinions in this thread...

 

[HERB brooks]

The issue isn't as black and white as that, I'm not saying that disc golf is a women's hating club. Just because a certain outlook does not define us as a community does not mean it is not some part of our culture.

It's a societal issue not a DG issue. Whether it's racist, sexist, or just plain douchey behavior it would exist without DG. I just hope the OP doesn't feel she has to stop throwing, because these types of jerks exist in all walks of life. I'm not saying we should tolerate sexist and racists but it's very naive to think you can change that type of persons thinking

 

[haier2]

I play solo rounds all the time. I've had more than one group chuckle as they let me play through and I smack a tree right in front of them. If I were female, does this automatically compound from not only uncourteous, but also sexist?

I don't think you'll last in disc golf, or being in public in general, if the word "sweetheart" causes you to seethe with anger. That's a pretty common word in the south, especially among an older crowd. I understand you felt like it was used in a "targeting" sexist way, but I GUARANTEE you the guy wasn't thinking, "what's the creepiest way I can address a girl that is participating in my favorite hobby?"

Especially as a ball golfer, I've noticed the disc golf crowd doesn't exactly showcase a high level of courtesy in general. The amount of socially challenged folks I've seen in the DG scene is only rivaled by some online gaming crowds, etc. I'm not saying its an excuse, and I'm not saying there isn't room to grow in some areas more than others, but a total courtesy overhaul would probably benefit the DG community more than a narrow focus on the words used to address women on the course, as words are open to interpretation.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I've experienced constant disrespect on the DG course which depicts the problem is not unique to interactions between sexes. I'd advise you to think about these courtesy problems as a big picture issue, beyond the basic male-female differences, perhaps with that perspective words won't bother you so badly.

 

[bnbanbury]

It's a societal issue not a DG issue. Whether it's racist, sexist, or just plain douchey behavior it would exist without DG. I just hope the OP doesn't feel she has to stop throwing, because these types of jerks exist in all walks of life. I'm not saying we should tolerate sexist and racists but it's very naive to think you can change that type of persons thinking

I don't think we are in disagreement, like i said in my post there are people like this in every corner of the world. I don't know if I have been particularly successful in changing the way people think but i have been successful in getting people to keep some things to themselves.

 

[sillybizz]

Easiest way to shut down those kind of guys is numbers. As sad as that is.

I find that it makes guys go after me harder when I give them my number.

Get over it.

Quit being sexist yourself.

Dealt with all kinds of weird crap, not a lot of gender-based crap.

Everybody deals with weird crap. Is this a pissing contest about whose crap is worse? When I say pissing contest do you cringe because that implies the word penis? We probably couldn't hang out. Uh oh, I did it again. Have fun on the DG course!

If you're dead-set on being insular, unapproachable, or otherwise ivory-towered, get a group & play with them. Psychology.

FWIW, I play solo a lot and wouldn't have said boo to you whether you're great, terrible, hot, ugly...unless you were standing on the fairway chillin'. Then I would've walked up, said "hi, I'm playing this hole and if you could move for a sec - say beyond this tree or further if that makes you feel more comfortable - I'll throw this here disc through and be gone in a moment". Take care!

:thmbdown: You're a scum bag.

Hi Everyone !!

I've had several experiences about which I want to open a discussion.

As you may know, I'm a novice but I try to do my best and have fun.

I don't want to be an "angry woman," I just want civility. Common courtesy such as one male player would show to another. The majority of the time, I receive the courtesy or simply get ignored. Those, I can handle. Without getting too much into my personal backstory, I'm used to a certain amount of one or the other.

Today, I was playing a round at my home course on a really beautiful day (albeit a breezy one).
Of course the park was crowded with groups and families. (72 degrees and Sunny? Yes, please!)

As the only one playing a solo round with three discs and a towel, plenty let me play through or I dodged them, going to vacant holes and getting my bogeys and shuffling along, loving my time outdoors and laughing off my bad shots.

One of the fairways is perpendicular to the basket of one hole and the tee of another. I threw my first disc, hit a tree, took my second shot, hit a tree, tried again, hit a tree (what do you expect?).

I was barely even cognizant of the group near my fairway, other than to make sure I didn't hit any of them (yeah, like I can throw that far or that hard!) but still, courtesy is courtesy in a public park.

One of the adjacent party had been observing my unlucky lies and called out something to me about the trees and called me "sweetheart" and assured me I was "still a winner."

I froze and looked at him as he had pulled me completely out of my DG headspace...so he calls it all out to me AGAIN as if I'm deaf and not just SUPER annoyed. I have no idea how to handle the situation. I'm a "live and let live" (frolf and let frolf?) person that rather enjoys being ignored and left alone. We've all been interrupted in a round. You know how it goes.

Humiliated, I holed out as fast as I could and went on to the next tee but I was bleeding silent rage. I thought I might try to finish the round, but that just didn't happen. I peaced out and left so I could clear my mind and try to recover from a wholly unexpected interruption/affront.

A few weeks ago on another occasion, I was registering at the table at a disc event and one of the guys at the table muttered "sexy" but I heard him. Whether it was at me or just for whatever reason, that guy couldn't STFU, I felt like my entry fee was wasted because of what he said. And my performance was garbage that night, even though 99% of the other guys were respectful or ignored me. I want to attend again, but I feel like I would be "making waves" or disturbing the natural order should I return unaccompanied.

I'm equal to the other people. I'm not shopping for a boyfriend. I'm out playing disc to have fun and improve. To be outside, maybe even make a friend here or there. Basically the same reason as everyone else.

Why should my chromosomes have to make me some sort of target, mascot, or toy?

It's not right. For all the talk of "growing the sport" - being rude to women at events and on the course in not the way to do it.

If this is what is going to keep happening, then I am going to throw all my damn discs in the garbage. I don't deserve to be treated this way. No woman does.

Discussion Open !

First off I apologize for my gender full of cretons. Misogyny runs rampant in our society and it sucks, it really does. I feel as though disc golf has MORE of it than the general public, disc golf attracts lots of these types, based on empirical data.

As one of the very few openly Gay men playing disc golf I know what you mean when you say "ignored". I think I have it figured it out though, read on. when they are playing with "their boys" (someone else in the thread said this earlier) they can relax their filter on what they say. When a woman (or a Gay guy) enters the fray the guy(s) starts putting on those filters again. There are even more filters because they don't know you yet and what they can say in front of you without offending you. What happens is they start building up so many filters that everything gets filtered and they have nothing to say. Same thing happens to some people on first dates. That's the ignore you guy, much better than the loud mouth creep(s) who stare at you or worse cat call you or ask you out. Usually at least 2 out of 3.

Queen, please don't stop playing. Disc golf needs you! Think about how few women play the sport. You are incredibly important, much more than a male golfer who are a dime a dozen. We need women playing this sport and teaching other women to play the sport. Find the strength in yourself to say "I am enough" and ingore them.

 

[Darkgreen]

Queen, I'm sorry to hear that these things happened to you.

In any situation (not just on a disc golf course) we all need to do better about standing up to and calling people on their poor behavior towards women. I encourage women to stand up for themselves, but I understand if they are not comfortable doing so or if they do not feel safe doing so. Guys, speak up when you see a woman being treated like this.

Queen, I really hope experiences like this don't sour you on disc golf. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It is important that we continue to get example stories like this lest we forget that this continues to be a problem.