"Dead disc" when OB, is that a thing?

[stratedge]

I've checked the rules, I can't find anything to support this, but I keep hearing this supposed rule at tournaments from many sources so I have to ask...

Is there some kind of rule that explicitly says that if you throw OB, you cannot retrieve the disc that went OB and throw it again while throwing from the same lie? I say explicitly because obviously, practical matters such as the 30 second limit would typically prevent this as the disc would typically be too far away to retrieve in a timely fashion.

Example: There's a hole where you tee off from OB and you have to land in bounds, but a player throws a disc and hits a tree 10 feet off the tee pad. The disc drops straight to the ground, they're OB, but they can walk a few feet and pick it up. Is there any reason they can't use that disc again for their 2nd throw (3rd stroke)?

The actual scenario I have run into this are "mando lando" holes, where you're throwing to an island and if you don't land on the island, you have to retee (even if you passed over the island, skipped OB, etc.). They seem to be a popular ad hoc hole for tournaments around here, and while it hasn't affected me directly, I've heard other players told their throw disc is "dead" at least 3 times now. It would also be interesting in a scenario where there are spectators around the island, who could potentially throw a disc back to you.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I've checked the rules, I can't find anything to support this, but I keep hearing this supposed rule at tournaments from many sources so I have to ask...

Is there some kind of rule that explicitly says that if you throw OB, you cannot retrieve the disc that went OB and throw it again while throwing from the same lie? I say explicitly because obviously, practical matters such as the 30 second limit would typically prevent this as the disc would typically be too far away to retrieve in a timely fashion.

Example: There's a hole where you tee off from OB and you have to land in bounds, but a player throws a disc and hits a tree 10 feet off the tee pad. The disc drops straight to the ground, they're OB, but they can walk a few feet and pick it up. Is there any reason they can't use that disc again for their 2nd throw (3rd stroke)?

The actual scenario I have run into this are "mando lando" holes, where you're throwing to an island and if you don't land on the island, you have to retee (even if you passed over the island, skipped OB, etc.). They seem to be a popular ad hoc hole for tournaments around here, and while it hasn't affected me directly, I've heard other players told their throw disc is "dead" at least 3 times now. It would also be interesting in a scenario where there are spectators around the island, who could potentially throw a disc back to you.

So these are PDGA events or not?

 

[Cgkdisc]

In the 2006 rule book, when a stance violation (foot fault) was called outside of 10 meters, the player was not allowed to retrieve the disc to re-throw it for their next shot. If your fault was called within the 10 meter circle, you could retrieve your putter/disc.

I don't believe there was ever a rule preventing a player from retrieving a disc thrown OB and throwing it again unless the TD got a waiver to prevent players from doing it for speed of play.

 

[stratedge]

In the 2006 rule book, when a stance violation (foot fault) was called outside of 10 meters, the player was not allowed to retrieve the disc to re-throw it for their next shot. If your fault was called within the 10 meter circle, you could retrieve your putter/disc.

I don't believe there was ever a rule preventing a player from retrieving a disc thrown OB and throwing it again unless the TD got a waiver to prevent players from doing it for speed of play.

Thanks. :thmbup:

 

[_MTL_]

You absolutely can re-use it.

However, the 30 second rule applies.

 

[Cgkdisc]

You absolutely can re-use it.

However, the 30 second rule applies.

Not necessarily. The 30 seconds would apply if the rule on the hole was a re-tee AND the group could see or were informed by spotter that your drive was OB. However, if group can't tell if disc is OB or it's normal OB rules, the player would be walking forward to find their disc and could retrieve it if it was reasonably accessible during the process of identifying it before going back to re-tee if they had to or chose to do so.

 

[_MTL_]

Not necessarily. The 30 seconds would apply if the rule on the hole was a re-tee AND the group could see or were informed by spotter that your drive was OB. However, if group can't tell if disc is OB or it's normal OB rules, the player would be walking forward to find their disc and could retrieve it if it was reasonably accessible during the process of identifying it before going back to re-tee if they had to or chose to do so.

......Which is all covered in the 30 second rule since it's based on when it's your turn to throw.

 

[Cgkdisc]

......Which is all covered in the 30 second rule since it's based on when it's your turn to throw.

Yes, but your comment might make players think they always need to find and retrieve their disc and throw again 30 seconds after they just threw OB. That's all.

 

[archmage]

......Which is all covered in the 30 second rule since it's based on when it's your turn to throw.

Well, not only on when it's your turn to throw, as in the rulebook there are three conditions to starting of the 30 second clock, which are 1) it's your turn to throw, 2) you have had reasonable time to arrive at your disc, and 3) the playing area is clear and free of distractions. All 3 have to be true for the clock to start, so the clock would start when the player arrives at their out-of-bounds disc (if it's their turn and there are no distractions). So walking to the disc is not covered by the 30 second rule even if it's their turn to throw, because the 30 seconds doesn't start before the player has had a reasonable time to arrive at their disc, and if they have arrived at their disc, retrieving it is most of the time a simple matter of bending down and picking it up. So most of the time players can retrieve their disc before the 30 seconds start.

But really, as I double-checked the rule, I have to say I thought the rule read "arrive at their lie", but it clearly says "disc", so the 30 seconds would start there and in case their lie is back at the tee, they would have to run back there (no matter how far it is) and throw, all within 30 seconds. I wonder if that is really the intention behind that rule? The wording also becomes a bit problematic because there are cases where the player actually never arrives at their disc (it might be lost, or in the bottom of a lake, etc.), so what is a reasonable time to arrive at a disc that cannot be found, or reasonable time to arrive at a disc that is at the bottom of a lake?

Also, considering Chuck's example where the rule is to re-tee and the case where the group could see or were informed by spotter that the drive was OB, the 30 seconds to throw again still wouldn't start immediately, but would allow reasonable time to arrive at the disc, and then 30 seconds to run back to the tee and throw again. So effectively, going by the letter of the rule, you never have just the 30 seconds to retrieve your disc, as the rule always allows a reasonable time to arrive at your disc first.

Maybe the rule should read "arrive at their lie"?

 

[Horsman]

Ive played an A Tier where if you threw into certain OB on one hole you were not allowed to retrieve your disc because it was on private property. Since it sounds like its not in the rule book and Im pretty positive no waiver was had, does that mean I could have gone to retrieve my disc?

 

[JC17393]

Ive played an A Tier where if you threw into certain OB on one hole you were not allowed to retrieve your disc because it was on private property. Since it sounds like its not in the rule book and Im pretty positive no waiver was had, does that mean I could have gone to retrieve my disc?

No, because it is still private property. Players are still expected to adhere to laws while playing in tournaments.

Competition Manual 3.3
B. Players are expected to behave in a professional and sportsmanlike manner while participating in a PDGA sanctioned event. Actions that are in violation of this conduct include but are not limited to:
7. Activities which are in violation of Federal, State or Local laws or ordinances, park regulation or disc golf course rule. Tournament Directors are granted the discretion to disqualify a player based on the severity of the offending conduct. An official warning prior to disqualification may be issued by a Tournament Director where appropriate.​

I'd say a TD stating prior to the round that retrieval of discs from private property abutting the course is not allowed would constitute an official warning, leaving players who retrieve discs from that property in danger of disqualification. No waivers necessary.