"Disc Golf Not as Green as it seems"

[hk chef]

"who wants to walk around an open space with hard plastic projectiles flying around at highway speeds? No one takes a casual stroll on a regular golf course, and they won't on a well-used disc golf course either." The main course here in Boise is Ann Morrison Park... there is A LOT of foot traffic that includes non-DGers during the summer... and there is rarely a problem. There are signs around the course that say "Caution, entering disc golf area" or something of that nature. Just seems like this guy has a general disliking for the sport. Yes, discs hit trees/bushes.. but he makes it sound like were big lumber jacks who have come to hack down the wildlife. IMHO there are more respectful DGers out there than not. At least from what I have seen out on the course.

Haha you have never played the front 18 at LaMirada here in so cal. casual strolls seem to be the norm.

 

[joegraham]

It is in the Opinion section. He's entitled to his opinion and has shown he is entrenched in it as he does not listen to reason. We are of another opinion!

 

[esdubya]

He raises some good points that must and will be addressed as this sport continues to grow. There are nuggets of truth in there that no-one in the DG world wants to admit. As a course designer this article just brings to mind all of the selling points that I typically use when pitching a new course to a parks department. If the parks department is wise, they may raise some of these issues, and it is up to us to be able to provide informative and helpful answers. Maybe, just maybe disc golf isn't the best fit for every park out there.

I suppose the answer to this is multifaceted, but would include allowing some downtime for heavy use courses to recover, active erosion control and maybe limiting use by pay-to-play in some cases. Kensington metropark here in metro Detroit was completely redesigned a few years ago, the primary reason being heavy use and erosion issues. They also implemented pay to play when it re-opened.

It's easy to get outraged by an article like this because it threatens the foundation of our beloved game. I say use it as a lesson and get educated on these issues raised so we can effectively answer these questions the next time something like this is brought up.

 

[Hampstead]

this is why i'm glad i don't live in a liberal area... i had fun during my trip to SF but when I saw a teenager get out of a BMW dressed like a bum, walk across the street and sit down next to other teens dressed like bums and start asking for change i knew it was one ****ed up town.

Travel much? It's not just SF

 

[IHearChains]

I haven't actually planned a course and made the arguments to get it approved. I've only read about these controversies. So the following is only from the perspective of a taxpayer.

I think people should stop trying to pretend disc golf is any more environmentally friendly than it really is. It might be better than some other types of development, but it's case-by-case, sometimes ambiguous, and depends on the terrain, the indigenous species, how much use the course is going to get. With all this ambiguity, the "green" argument can easily be turned around and used to attack the credibility of disc golfers.

It is probably more effective to focus on (a) community health and the inclusive opportunities for exercise for all citizens of all ages, and (b) bringing positive activities to underused park areas that were previously attractive to vandalism or other undesirable/illegal activities.

It's harder to put up a credible argument against those. And it's hard to imagine any parks and recreation director that wouldn't see these as winning points, that fit right in with their job description.

 

[Lewis]

All we need is a suitable plot of land and specialized metal baskets that Costco sells for $70 a piece.

What is this $70 metal dg basket that Costco apparently sells???

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

Move before it's too late!

Having lived in California I know all too well about all the restrictions, permits, fees, licenses, fines and all around hoops you have to jump through to get things done out there. You cant do anything without some wack-job telling you they dont like what you're doing & will fight you tooth & nail just to prove a point. So glad I now live in an area with many, MANY DG courses! I feel sorry for the rest of you! Maybe you should move too?

 

[onemilemore]

Having lived in California I know all too well about all the restrictions, permits, fees, licenses, fines and all around hoops you have to jump through to get things done out there. You cant do anything without some wack-job telling you they dont like what you're doing & will fight you tooth & nail just to prove a point. So glad I now live in an area with many, MANY DG courses! I feel sorry for the rest of you! Maybe you should move too?

Or I could go to one of the five courses within 20 minutes of me and enjoy the 75 degree winters. I think I'll do that. California is great, and there are a ton of disc golf courses. Could we use more? Sure. But it makes it that much better when we get them in after all the hoop jumping.

As for complaining about this guy's opinion in a newspaper: It was the Half Moon Bay Review, not the SF Chronicle. I'd venture the circulation of that paper is less than 10,000. Not that big a problem.

We play a sport that not everyone is going to embrace. But if it were always easy to succeed, would it really be worth it?

 

[mashnut]

What is this $70 metal dg basket that Costco apparently sells???

The instep occasionally shows up at Costco I believe.

 

[WillGrrr]

The car that guy drives and the farts from all the beef he has eaten in his lifetime have made a much bigger negative impact on the environment than the one disc golf course he is wasting everyone's time trying to prevent will ever do.

I thought it was obvious that the guy is vegan, rides a recumbent bike, and never got the hang of throwing a frisbee.

 

[TempleOfDoom]

I thought it was obvious that the guy is vegan, rides a recumbent bike, and never got the hang of throwing a frisbee.

I was going to go with drives a Prius and loves the smell of his own farts, but close enough.

 

[mashnut]

I haven't actually planned a course and made the arguments to get it approved. I've only read about these controversies. So the following is only from the perspective of a taxpayer.

I think people should stop trying to pretend disc golf is any more environmentally friendly than it really is. It might be better than some other types of development, but it's case-by-case, sometimes ambiguous, and depends on the terrain, the indigenous species, how much use the course is going to get. With all this ambiguity, the "green" argument can easily be turned around and used to attack the credibility of disc golfers.

It is probably more effective to focus on (a) community health and the inclusive opportunities for exercise for all citizens of all ages, and (b) bringing positive activities to underused park areas that were previously attractive to vandalism or other undesirable/illegal activities.

It's harder to put up a credible argument against those. And it's hard to imagine any parks and recreation director that wouldn't see these as winning points, that fit right in with their job description.

I don't see too many people claiming that disc golf is better for the environment than just leaving the land alone, but you can certainly make the case that it's more "green" than almost any other organized sport. We don't have to cut down a bunch of trees or clear large areas or fill the soil with chemicals and fertilizers to maintain a surface, and the average disc golf course certainly uses less water for irrigation than a grass field of any kind.

There are a lot of things we can do better, like being more conscious of erosion and compaction, and doing a better job protecting less hardy trees especially right off the tee pad. That said, disc golf is a reasonably green way to use parkland especially when you consider the environmental impact against the number of users.

 

[tomsdiscs]

I did not read the dudes rant in the paper, I am sure he is a nut, but this discussion should be adjusted based on geography - in most of CA, we get very little rain, and are just about to close the books on a second straight drought year.

Even in non-drought years, we get less than 20 inches of rain, and it all falls in a small window of about 4 months, and native trees take forever, forever, forever, forever to grow.

After 10 years, a local oak or pine is still a juvenile tree at best, etc. So CA does not generate, or re-generate trees very well, so some care should be taken, but that does not mean we should let the whack jobs run off at the mouth and try to ruin everybody's fun, DG gets people outside, away from the damn computers and TVs and should be respected accordingly.

But again, some care should be taken, my local course is looking pretty thrashed, the trees are not in good shape, and it does track back to all the hits they are taking from discs, etc.

 

[Tosco]

Full text of the letter

Hey folks --

I happen to know the author of the letter published in the Half Moon Bay paper and he shared with me the full text of his letter to the paper, including links to all his sources. This is almost twice as long as the letter the paper published. He's clearly does his homework on this topic and he's not making stuff up.

Here's the link: http://bit.ly/10NQL5h

 

[New013]

Hey folks --

I happen to know the author of the letter published in the Half Moon Bay paper and he shared with me the full text of his letter to the paper, including links to all his sources. This is almost twice as long as the letter the paper published. He's clearly does his homework on this topic and he's not making stuff up.

Here's the link: http://bit.ly/10NQL5h

Hey folk, just because he backs up his arguments with some facts does not mean he can at the same time mix in opinionated propoganda that supports his cause and call it all factual.

The idea that disc golfers take over areas and let nobody else use that area is complete bs. There are probably some dbags out there who think that way but from my experience most disc golfers are very careful not to throw upon casual park users and give them the right away.

The other propoganda filled statement is that disc golf courses only belong where homeless people have taken over... well in San Fran isn't that just about everywhere? Maybe we should build some all over the hippy district because all I remember from my trip there was stoners, homeless people and Ben & Jerry's.

It's great that he found some facts that support his cause and I don't disagree that any of those facts are wrong but when you use them side by side with opinion and propoganda that doesn't make everything you say right. You can probably convince a bunch of bleeding heart liberals to go save some **** they didn't care about before but you're not getting one over on anybody who has reading comprehension above a 6th grade level.

 

[chillis]

The article does provide plenty of facts, and as avid disc golfers, you have to be aware of these facts. But New013 hit it on the head. Also, the naysayer's facts only apply to courses that see as much traffic as Golden Gate's course does. Lesser traveled courses don't see nearly as much damage to the surroundings. When your sample includes one of the busiest courses in California, your results are going to reflect that. Instead, he uses those findings to damn all disc golf courses. That is bull$hit, in my opinion.

McLaren park looks tiny and cramped (from satellite images). Maybe not the best place for a course in the first place. I'm all for installing new courses, but even the most seasoned designer would be hard-pressed to fit in a fun, worthwhile, safe course in such a heavily used area.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

He raises some good points that must and will be addressed as this sport continues to grow. There are nuggets of truth in there that no-one in the DG world wants to admit. As a course designer this article just brings to mind all of the selling points that I typically use when pitching a new course to a parks department. If the parks department is wise, they may raise some of these issues, and it is up to us to be able to provide informative and helpful answers. Maybe, just maybe disc golf isn't the best fit for every park out there.

I suppose the answer to this is multifaceted, but would include allowing some downtime for heavy use courses to recover, active erosion control and maybe limiting use by pay-to-play in some cases. Kensington metropark here in metro Detroit was completely redesigned a few years ago, the primary reason being heavy use and erosion issues. They also implemented pay to play when it re-opened.

It's easy to get outraged by an article like this because it threatens the foundation of our beloved game. I say use it as a lesson and get educated on these issues raised so we can effectively answer these questions the next time something like this is brought up.

esdubya makes some good points. Kensington was a prime example of what people hate about disc golf in terms of what the traffic did to that section of the park, not to mention the scumbaggy behavior of some people on that course. When they opened Black Locust and went to pay to play, it really cleaned course behavior up when viewed on the whole.

As for the article linked in the OP: I can't say it's entirely inaccurate, but saying it lacks objectivity is the understatement of the year. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it makes me sick when people exercise that right without any sense of responsibility. The article seems to have a much more agressive tone than the letter tosco linked.

My initial thought after reading the article was, "If this guy was any bigger a di**, he'd have a f***skin around his neck." Still don't think I've changed my mind about that.

 

[tomsdiscs]

FYI - Tosco just joined and made that post, has no history on this site.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

FYI - Tosco just joined and made that post, has no history on this site.

yeah, I noticed that, too. For all I know, that letter is total BS. For all I know, it might be legit.
Tosco, are you really Mr. McGary? :\

 

[eegor]

Defending disc golf as a "green" sport is more than somewhat misleading. Sure, there is definitely an adverse environmental impact on plants and soil. Promoting it as "green" is lying.

Disc golf is great exercise for people of all ages. It's popular with people of all ages and walks of life. It doesn't cost much to install and maintain a course in comparison to other, not so green sports like basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, etc.

Disc golf is recreation and a healthy activity. Promoting it as such (telling the whole truth) is our best approach. If you want to join the propaganda wars... say "Disc golf fights obesity"... or something similar. Never deny the truthful negative, but promote the truthful positives with enthusiasm.

Parks are for people too... wildlife preserves are for nature.