Disc stays with off foot (there is no reach back)

[seedlings]

Excellent video from a source I hadn't come across before. "All the pros" leave their disc with the off foot during the x-step, aka walking around the disc, aka there is no reach back. Simon and Calvin keep the disc near the left hip, then leave it as the left foot lands. Paul and Eagle put their disc out with the lead leg, but then it follows the off foot. Cool. Of course all of this has been touched in many threads, but here it is all-at-once.

 

[RFrance]

Interesting. With a quick look it does seem like that's what they are doing.

 

[lee76007]

Excellent video from a source I hadn't come across before. "All the pros" leave their disc with the off foot during the x-step, aka walking around the disc, aka there is no reach back. Simon and Calvin keep the disc near the left hip, then leave it as the left foot lands. Paul and Eagle put their disc out with the lead leg, but then it follows the off foot. Cool. Of course all of this has been touched in many threads, but here it is all-at-once.

I'm in the process of correcting my form this winter season, and currently in the one-step, the past two weeks focused on the reach back. I watched this video two weeks ago, and a second one that focused on "walking around the disc". Not only will you need to still reach back with the standstill, but I still needed too reach back on a one-step. Did some peaking with a two-step, and yes I can start "walking around the disc" when I graduate to the two-step. What little I did with, seem to give me more control and balance.

 

[sidewinder22]

I thought it was pretty well covered in this thread:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91096

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=7m16s

Actual drills to feel where you should leave the disc, or move your rear foot from door frame/disc(it does vary somewhat on person and shot) and leverage yourself against it. IMO the backswing is easier to learn and feel and more forgiving.

 

[RFrance]

Actual drills to feel where you should leave the disc, or move your rear foot from door frame/disc(it does vary somewhat on person and shot) and leverage yourself against it. IMO the backswing is easier to learn and feel and more forgiving.

I definitely agree. I tried leaving the disc with my rear leg today at practice and it just didn't feel right. For me to get the rhythm of the swing it's easier to have the pre-swing or pump or walk around the disc.

 

[seedlings]

I thought it was pretty well covered in this thread:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91096

Absolutely - great thread.

 

[lee76007]

I thought it was pretty well covered in this thread:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91096

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=7m16s

Actual drills to feel where you should leave the disc, or move your rear foot from door frame/disc(it does vary somewhat on person and shot) and leverage yourself against it. IMO the backswing is easier to learn and feel and more forgiving.

Sidewinder, thank you for posting! The Hammer x-step video, I've been looking for a good 2-step video, and this is it! Maybe a few more weeks in the one-step.

 

[seedlings]

This source Overthrow Disc Golf has a new video out that talks about rotating into the brace and the controversy about spinning. There is some level of semantics and talking over one another 'brace' versus 'spin and throw', but, I have had a few very awkward incidents spinning into the brace. I'm sure I wasn't doing it 'the right way' from either perspective. Still, spinning into the brace isn't probably the best terminology.

 

[Sard0nyx]

This source Overthrow Disc Golf has a new video out that talks about rotating into the brace and the controversy about spinning. There is some level of semantics and talking over one another 'brace' versus 'spin and throw', but, I have had a few very awkward incidents spinning into the brace. I'm sure I wasn't doing it 'the right way' from either perspective. Still, spinning into the brace isn't probably the best terminology.

He's a good teacher, but I'm not sure how far he throws. From what I've been reading lately, it seems to be all about the snap. All the bracing/hip movement and proper form will really only make you plateau at around 350'. It seems like it makes more sense to figure out how to generate snap first, then fixing everything else.

Also, I watched the video and on his one-step it looks like his hip shifts laterally before he rotates. I also see him doing that a bit as well as he settles into his plant foot. I'm still not sure what the happy medium is between the lateral weight-shift and 'spin and throw', but it seems that both are happening to some degree. We can watch pros all day and see that they're rotating their hips. I think the true answer to this is which one happens first. It seems to me that the lateral shift happens first, then your body follows through by rotating around the brace.

 

[sidewinder22]

Teaching squish the bug, or shifting from in front, or spin and throw. Only old guys teach that stuff. :thmbdown:

Listen to World Champ Feldberg on this one. Cheating the turn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZjEiznZfYY&t=25m30s

 

[seedlings]

Teaching squish the bug, or shifting from in front, or spin and throw. Only old guys teach that stuff. :thmbdown:

Listen to World Champ Feldberg on this one. Cheating the turn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZjEiznZfYY&t=25m30s

I loved hearing Bradley Williams repeatedly talking about weight shift while commentating one of the recent Texas tournaments.

 

[VictorB]

He's a good teacher, but I'm not sure how far he throws.

this shouldn't matter, honestly. There are a lot of great coaches out there that aren't elite athletes.

If you can convey your message coherently and in a way that gets the student to improve, that's what matters.

 

[Sard0nyx]

this shouldn't matter, honestly. There are a lot of great coaches out there that aren't elite athletes.

If you can convey your message coherently and in a way that gets the student to improve, that's what matters.

I feel like disc golf is a little different. I don't think you can teach well without throwing far and correctly. Especially with something like snap. Disc golf is different because you don't have to be athletic at all to throw competently. The whole coach/athlete thing doesn't really apply for disc golf. Same thing with ball golf. I don't think you'd want your coach in ball golf to not know how to swing a club correctly.

 

[VictorB]

I feel like disc golf is a little different. I don't think you can teach well without throwing far and correctly. Especially with something like snap. Disc golf is different because you don't have to be athletic at all to throw competently. The whole coach/athlete thing doesn't really apply for disc golf. Same thing with ball golf. I don't think you'd want your coach in ball golf to not know how to swing a club correctly.

You're using a lot of ethereal terms in there. "Throwing far" - how far do you have to throw for it to be correct?

"You don't have to be athletic to throw competently" - what does competently mean? And I've never seen someone who isn't athletic clear 400' consistently.

"Snap" - the ultimate in ambiguous terms for disc golf. What is it, really?

There are a lot of people that can do but can't teach. There are a lot of people that can teach but can't do. There is a very rare and small population that can do both

 

[Lastchancer88]

The problem I have with the brace video from Overthrow is that he straw mans the lateral move by saying people do it wrong and shows the example of someone going over the top, then shows that must mean you should rotate back a bit to keep from going over your brace. To me this means people (including myself) who go over the top of the brace need to work on bracing correctly instead of changing how to get there. He then gives examples of his drill where at least half of his weight is backwards at the end of the spin. He states most sports focus on rotation instead of lateral shift but like Sidewinder said, the "squish the bug" idea is considered outdated and incorrect, and when you look at batters in baseball they're usually off the ground or on the tip toes with their back foot and their weight shifted forward. It's more exaggerated in hockey with a slapshot. Shawn Clement golf videos teach shifting into the front before the downswing happens (Hogan Power Move).

Even if there is rotation in that, it is a lateral weight shift to the front. His drill likely won't get you to the front. I don't think he's doing anything malicious, but he brings up the "drama" and then takes a side without giving scientific facts or examples explaining why his choice is correct. He basically just said his is better. Also no example throw for a drill/lesson?

Here's an (admittedly extreme) example. Pause right at 7 seconds. Look how Eagle is still as corked as possible with all his weight on the front side. He hasn't rotated but he has shifted. I think the Overthrow drill came from a freeze frame right after this where he's at the hit and looks like a reverse bow with his leg out front, but we know he hadn't rotated until shifting all the way to the front because his rear foot is off the ground and he still finishes balanced to the front foot from momentum:



Or another good example. Nate Doss. Simple and powerful swing. Watch at 8 seconds his rear foot de-weights and he's shifted to the front (can crushing) before he rotates at all:

 

[VictorB]

So a lot of these threads/teachers are all trying to teach the same thing but the verbiage is different. Most people get lost in the forest for all the trees, so saying the same thing in multiple ways can reach a lot more people. (I'm one of the lucky ones that can't actually do it no matter how it's explained to me)

Here's a different question: How important is the triple extension of the back leg (hip, knees, ankle) in generating power through the rotation? It's the most powerful chain of movement a human can produce, but I don't see anyone really address it. But it looks like most pros are off the back foot prior to achieving this full extension

 

[Phathatter]

So a lot of these threads/teachers are all trying to teach the same thing but the verbiage is different. Most people get lost in the forest for all the trees, so saying the same thing in multiple ways can reach a lot more people. (I'm one of the lucky ones that can't actually do it no matter how it's explained to me)

Here's a different question: How important is the triple extension of the back leg (hip, knees, ankle) in generating power through the rotation? It's the most powerful chain of movement a human can produce, but I don't see anyone really address it. But it looks like most pros are off the back foot prior to achieving this full extension

Rear leg is important--Sidewinder's door frame drill can help feel it. Holding onto the door frame, you move forward (toward target) while the disc/door frame stays in one place and your upper body has to turn back. You then adjust your position until you feel like you can leverage the most force against the door frame--like you are trying to rip the frame out of the wall. When you are in this position, your back leg is pushing hard into the ground and your front foot should be hovering just above the ground or touching lightly. Then you can let go of the frame--your weight will move immediately onto the front foot and you will unwind balanced on your front foot.

In a full power throw, the back leg gives a brief, powerful push while you are approaching the height of the back-swing. Then the weight moves to the front leg (and the disc starts moving forward) and the rear leg is just along for the ride.

I think people here focus on the front leg brace because "throwing from the back foot" is probably the most common form problem, but I have definitely over-corrected at times and focused so much on bracing that I didn't add anything with the back leg going into the plant.

 

[RandyC]

I belive triple extension is quite a "natural" thing what happens when you jump sideways, ice skate etc. It´s discussed at the highest level of sports where athletes actually strenghten and train these very spesific muscles to exert more power out of them but for the average Joe triple extension is not something that you should be worrying about imo. If you were seriously trying break the distance world record, then I would look into triple extension.

 

[seedlings]

Some teachers teach to what happens (the disc flings out). Other teachers teach to why it happens. I prefer learning the 'why' - even if there is some assembly required.

Thanks SW22, HUB, and many others.

 

[Parbequeue]

What is the solution for *combating* these videos teaching potentially injury inducing techniques? They are becoming a dime a dozen. Let's get SW a gofundme/Kickstarter to set up with a disc golf form lab