Discing down adventures.

[AndyJB]

Sorry for all the typos...I typed all that on my cell phone LOL

 

[whentherainscome]

Number 4 is exactly the definition. [...] I guarentee they will bexome beytwr playera in the long run.

Hear, hear!

I agree with 100% of that, and the only thing I think could be added would be for the experienced/somewhat experienced golfers to throw MOLD-stable drivers instead of speed-stable. This is definition #1 in the list Brodysseus posted, but totally fits within definition #4. Find the speed that flies as the disc was intended on your max D throws/80% power or whatever level of yours that allows for a good balance of power and control.

In the same manner that you do putter rounds, also do rounds/field practice where you try out faster discs. It's even a good tool for "nose down" practice, something putter rounds do NOT teach.

 

[Radiomuted]

My disc golf "medicine" is a putter round. When OAT sneaks back in, or I find myself strong arming, or just generally lacking accuracy, I'll throw putter rounds the next two or three outings. This helps me get my groove back, and gain confidence again.

What's been pretty awesome lately, is I'm getting some of the best scores of my life throwing all putters. My home course doesn't really have bomber holes so it's completely feasible to do so, seeing as how I throw far more accurately with putters.

Bottom line, hooray for putters.

 

[drblam]

Putters are the game and the game is putters. Take any disc from me, but my ion must stay in the bag or I am ruined!

 

[BrotherDave]

Discing down, as it pertains to this thread, is using speed appropriate discs for your skill level instead of the high-speed drivers most people start out with. When you try to learn how to throw a golf disc by using a high-speed driver, that's like starting out a video game on extreme difficulty. Sure, some people are naturals and figure it out quickly thanks to a baseball background or something but most of us toil and learn terrible habits just trying to make the disc go sort of straight and end up in the general direction we want it.

Discing down to discs that are slower (NOT JUST PUTTERS AND/OR MIDS) and more in the stable/neutral range encourages learning disc golf throwing fundamentals. Once you get the basic fundamentals down, you can do whatever you want in terms of organizing your bag.

 

[AndyJB]

Discing down, as it pertains to this thread, is using speed appropriate discs for your skill level instead of the high-speed drivers most people start out with. When you try to learn how to throw a golf disc by using a high-speed driver, that's like starting out a video game on extreme difficulty. Sure, some people are naturals and figure it out quickly thanks to a baseball background or something but most of us toil and learn terrible habits just trying to make the disc go sort of straight and end up in the general direction we want it.

Discing down to discs that are slower (NOT JUST PUTTERS AND/OR MIDS) and more in the stable/neutral range encourages learning disc golf throwing fundamentals. Once you get the basic fundamentals down, you can do whatever you want in terms of organizing your bag.

Well said, BrotherDave (and without all my ridiculous typos!) I hate to see newer players "disc down" too much...basically going to the opposite extreme of throwing all the high speed OS stuff. Drivers are definetly essential but most new players will do just fine at first with a Leopard or similar disc.

 

[simpletwist]

Ok so I'm old and stubborn. And l can hardly argue with the successes I had with my Nukes and Xcals, trophies, cash, prizes... Partly due to some broken body parts, the shoulder, thumb and index finger on my throwing arm are broken torn or has some nerve damage I could get any real distance BH, so I throw FH for most drives of 225 or greater and definitely anything over 250.

I finally said enough is enough and got the large tear in the rotator cuff of my throwing arm repaired. Two weeks ago I got the green light from Ortho and Physical Therapy to play again. But they cautioned me to stick to the program that I tried to follow to the letter post op and to ease into it. So with that in mind I've been playing best shot from the short tees with the wife. Like I said I'm stubborn and I threw the discs I normally carried and took it easy. Instead of averaging around 275-300, I can only get 200-250. Not bad for a start, they said it would be a year or more before its fully healed.

All that said since the wife and I use a golf cart (aka Do-all Gun Buggy) And I can carry 40 discs easily. Since I noticed that most of my discs weigh in around 170-172, I could tell I could do a bit better with some lighter weight discs. Well this past Sunday after around, we started just taking some drives in a big open part of the course where we would be out of the way. Enough trees to make practice a little more realistic and challenging. In addition to working the shoulder back up to strength, I committed myself to getting more distance BH since it seems to be easier on that tender shoulder.

Armed with some tips we got from some videos we practiced. BAM! The light came on and least a little light. Some Blizzard discs, Eagle, Teebird, Viper & the very understable X Surge 150 Class. It was tough to tell exactly how far I was throwing. But what I can say is it was a lot further than I'd ever thrown BH before especially with that Surge which is unfortunate because it went oop. The thing is I am very happy and surprised to be able to do more with less. So taking this knowledge when I played on Tuesday I used slower lighter discs more and kept the Nuke, Xcal, Orc, Flash & Flick mostly in the bag. Instead I was driving with the Eagle, Viper, T-bird, Leopard, & Zombee. I must have been doing something right, I had two so close calls for aces and the wife and I shot our lowest round as doubles partners at 10 down.

I'm sold.

Moral of the story is: Sometimes you can teach an old dog new tricks!

 

[Dan Ensor]

150g X Surge is still a production mold.

 

[simpletwist]

150g X Surge is still a production mold.

Not according to Discraft. After my epiphany I searched on line at a handful of places on line. Everyone was sold out. So I posed the question about availability on Discraft's facebook page. Their answer, 'Snap them up because they recently have been discontinued.'

 

[Dan Ensor]

Interesting. Their website still has it listed as a production model/plastic.

Edit: They might be discontinuing to promote the sale of DGA 150g Rogues. Which you should try out.

 

[KMoneyWinthropGold]

I don't always follow discing down, but when I do, I think it's the greatest thing to help break down your technique, improve it, and help lead to better scores in the long run.
On a good drive, I can max out at around 340ft with the Valkyries and am trying to work my way back up to the faster discs that I grew accustomed to before. If I can get these fairways out there to 340, I'd hope that I can translate that technique training to the faster drivers out there and hope to reach 400ft by August! I know there will be a lost of overlaps in discs in my bag, and I know that. I'm not worried about that at the moment, strictly distance and accuracy.
I took all of the Surges, Destroyers, and the like out of my bag, only pulling out the occasional Valkyrie for hyzer flips on 400+ ft holes, and here's what I have left:

Valkyrie Champion 4x (Hyzerflips that fade at the end)
Valkyrie Champion 5x (Hyzerflips that stay straight or slightly turn)
Eagle Star (Big flex shots)
Eagle Champion 12x (Straight)
Eagle Champion 11x (Hyzers and headwinds)
Teebird Champion 12x (Overstable)
Teebird Champion 12x (Straight)
Teebird Star (Straight backup)
Teebird-L Star (Hyzerflips and turnovers)
River Opto (Huge anhyzers)
River Opto (Soft anhyzers)
Striker Opto (Stupidly overstable!)
Striker Opto (Straight)
Zone ESP (Overstable within 200ft)
Roc Star (Slightly overstable)
Roc3 (Overstable and headwinds)
Roc KC 12x (Slightly overstable)
Roc KC 12x (Straight)
Roc DX (Slightly understable, glides more)
Demon (Crazy Overstable longer than Zone)
Panther (Understable turnovers to hyzerflips)
APX (Understable putter, dead straight hyzerflips)
Firebird (super Flat top 12x = meathook)
Aviar Driver (Overstable for winds)
Aviar PnA (Straight with slight fade, approaches)
JK Pro Aviar (Putts only)
JK Pro Aviar (Putts only)

 

[whentherainscome]

I don't always follow discing down, but when I do, I think it's the greatest thing to help break down your technique, improve it, and help lead to better scores in the long run.
On a good drive, I can max out at around 340ft with the Valkyries...

I know a few guys who carry Bosses/Destroyers/whatever but will pull out Valks for big D. They truly are a distance driver!

Discing down starts from the approach game and works its way up to drivers - not from the distance game down.

I'm throwing similar distance, maybe 360' on a good pull, if course distances are at all accurate anywhere I play. For me, I have a couple Pro Destroyers and I'll do some for-fun field work with those, a couple ESP Forcses (6/10 used) and a buddy's Nukes. I can throw them fine, but find no big distance or control advantage over my Vikings and OLFs - both of which are more comfortable and consistent. They are FAST though, and fun to throw!

Point is, don't feel like you HAVE to grow out of your Valk, or w/e slower distance drivers you might prefer. Valks, Vikings, Sanits, PDs, etcetc are great, there's no limit to how far they'll go. Well, I mean... literally, there are limits, but 400+ is nowhere close to out of the question.

 

[Brodysseus]

Recently, I have gained some distance. My fairways are now consistently around 300', mids are out past 250', and putters are not too far behind mids. My Lace is now around 325', with it sometimes pushing out past 350'. However, my scores have been increasing! I have added distance, but not accuracy it seems. And my Lace is just so inconsistent... I'm throwing it far (for me) but I feel like I have no control over it or the line it will shape.

So I have decided to pull the Lace from my bag, pull a few more discs to move to a smaller bag, and also try a little disc down experiment. The bag I am currently using:
Fade Crunch Box
Ascent x3 (173M, 169F, 169M)/Trak x2 (159M, 159F)
Obex (178M)/Ibex (169M)
VP x4 (173F x2, 173M, 173S)/Summit (173F)

I have decided to apply discing down in it's most general sense ("clubbing down") and have set these guidelines for myself:
•250' or less- Putters
•250'-300'- Mids
•300'+- Drivers

On top of this, I decided to do a little experiment. During solo practice rounds, I am going to throw three tee shots on every hole and play all three discs to completion. Here are the rules I set for myself:
•1st Tee Shot- Always a putter.
•2nd Tee Shot- A step down from whatever disc I will be throwing for my 3rd tee shot
•3rd Tee Shot- The disc appropriate for the hole based on the distance rules I outlined above.

I will be tracking all my scores and comparing them. This "experiment" will have (hopefully) the following positive outcomes:
•3x as much Disc Golf!
•3x as much putting practice
•Familiarize myself more with my whole bag
•Show me that placement is more important than power
•Remind me to stay smooth and not be a torque monkey (as I'll always be leading off with a putter, usually my Summit)
•Teach me new ways to attack my home courses
•Improve my form and distance

I got out today and tried this, and here were my scores at my home course, PJ Irving Park (where I usually score right around 54):
1 (putters only)- 61
2 (step down)- 59
3 (normal)- 56

Things I noticed:
-The biggest reason scoring was different on holes was because of putting, not because of tee shots or up shots (And I was using my medium VP to putt for putter only shots, as opposed to my normal firm... probably added a stroke or two).
-I can throw my Summit pretty darn far (for me). I put it out past 250' a few times and put it out 300'+ (admittedly downhill) on one hole... A hole I used a Lace on last time I played it.
-However, some holes are just not good to throw putters on, no matter how far you throw (low ceilings).
-I need to get some more air under my mids, there is definitely more distance to be had with them even without a big improvement in form.
-The Ascent and Trak are good for my arm speed, as they form their designed flight path, but I definitely do not need anything faster.
-Watching putters and mids fly is freaking fun!

 

[knettles]

Recently, I have gained some distance. My fairways are now consistently around 300', mids are out past 250', and putters are not too far behind mids. My Lace is now around 325', with it sometimes pushing out past 350'. However, my scores have been increasing! I have added distance, but not accuracy it seems. And my Lace is just so inconsistent... I'm throwing it far (for me) but I feel like I have no control over it or the line it will shape.

So I have decided to pull the Lace from my bag, pull a few more discs to move to a smaller bag, and also try a little disc down experiment. The bag I am currently using:
Fade Crunch Box
Ascent x3 (173M, 169F, 169M)/Trak x2 (159M, 159F)
Obex (178M)/Ibex (169M)
VP x4 (173F x2, 173M, 173S)/Summit (173F)

I have decided to apply discing down in it's most general sense ("clubbing down") and have set these guidelines for myself:
•250' or less- Putters
•250'-300'- Mids
•300'+- Drivers

On top of this, I decided to do a little experiment. During solo practice rounds, I am going to throw three tee shots on every hole and play all three discs to completion. Here are the rules I set for myself:
•1st Tee Shot- Always a putter.
•2nd Tee Shot- A step down from whatever disc I will be throwing for my 3rd tee shot
•3rd Tee Shot- The disc appropriate for the hole based on the distance rules I outlined above.

I will be tracking all my scores and comparing them. This "experiment" will have (hopefully) the following positive outcomes:
•3x as much Disc Golf!
•3x as much putting practice
•Familiarize myself more with my whole bag
•Show me that placement is more important than power
•Remind me to stay smooth and not be a torque monkey (as I'll always be leading off with a putter, usually my Summit)
•Teach me new ways to attack my home courses
•Improve my form and distance

I got out today and tried this, and here were my scores at my home course, PJ Irving Park (where I usually score right around 54):
1 (putters only)- 61
2 (step down)- 59
3 (normal)- 56

Things I noticed:
-The biggest reason scoring was different on holes was because of putting, not because of tee shots or up shots (And I was using my medium VP to putt for putter only shots, as opposed to my normal firm... probably added a stroke or two).
-I can throw my Summit pretty darn far (for me). I put it out past 250' a few times and put it out 300'+ (admittedly downhill) on one hole... A hole I used a Lace on last time I played it.
-However, some holes are just not good to throw putters on, no matter how far you throw (low ceilings).
-I need to get some more air under my mids, there is definitely more distance to be had with them even without a big improvement in form.
-The Ascent and Trak are good for my arm speed, as they form their designed flight path, but I definitely do not need anything faster.
-Watching putters and mids fly is freaking fun!

I like your idea of throwing three different shots for each hole. However, I don't know if setting distance guidelines for disc selection is a good idea. There are times where a mid works perfectly great for a 200 ft shot. It all just depends on the line you have to hit and what disc will follow that line most reliably.

 

[knettles]

I don't always follow discing down, but when I do, I think it's the greatest thing to help break down your technique, improve it, and help lead to better scores in the long run.
On a good drive, I can max out at around 340ft with the Valkyries and am trying to work my way back up to the faster discs that I grew accustomed to before. If I can get these fairways out there to 340, I'd hope that I can translate that technique training to the faster drivers out there and hope to reach 400ft by August! I know there will be a lost of overlaps in discs in my bag, and I know that. I'm not worried about that at the moment, strictly distance and accuracy.
I took all of the Surges, Destroyers, and the like out of my bag, only pulling out the occasional Valkyrie for hyzer flips on 400+ ft holes, and here's what I have left:

Valkyrie Champion 4x (Hyzerflips that fade at the end)
Valkyrie Champion 5x (Hyzerflips that stay straight or slightly turn)
Eagle Star (Big flex shots)
Eagle Champion 12x (Straight)
Eagle Champion 11x (Hyzers and headwinds)
Teebird Champion 12x (Overstable)
Teebird Champion 12x (Straight)
Teebird Star (Straight backup)
Teebird-L Star (Hyzerflips and turnovers)
River Opto (Huge anhyzers)
River Opto (Soft anhyzers)
Striker Opto (Stupidly overstable!)
Striker Opto (Straight)
Zone ESP (Overstable within 200ft)
Roc Star (Slightly overstable)
Roc3 (Overstable and headwinds)
Roc KC 12x (Slightly overstable)
Roc KC 12x (Straight)
Roc DX (Slightly understable, glides more)
Demon (Crazy Overstable longer than Zone)
Panther (Understable turnovers to hyzerflips)
APX (Understable putter, dead straight hyzerflips)
Firebird (super Flat top 12x = meathook)
Aviar Driver (Overstable for winds)
Aviar PnA (Straight with slight fade, approaches)
JK Pro Aviar (Putts only)
JK Pro Aviar (Putts only)

Dear lord, do you carry all that in one bag?!

 

[Brodysseus]

I like your idea of throwing three different shots for each hole. However, I don't know if setting distance guidelines for disc selection is a good idea. There are times where a mid works perfectly great for a 200 ft shot. It all just depends on the line you have to hit and what disc will follow that line most reliably.

Agreed. There are times when I could probably reach a pin with a Summit, but my Ascent is going to hit the low ceiling tunnel better.

But for this exercise, I want to try throwing discs that I normally wouldn't on certain holes to either find a new way to attack a hole or prove to myself that I should be throwing the faster disc on that hole because it hits the line better.

As I go further with this experiment and get more comfortable with my lines (or when I just step up to a hole where I obviously need to throw a certain disc) I will adapt. But I just thought those distances were good general guidelines as they go up to the distances I want to be comfortable at with each type of disc.

 

[its_nick]

This summer my main goal is to improve my game of disc golf. I forehand 90% of my drives off the tee and 60% of most other shots.

My usual bag consists of:
167 Star Teebird (Go to driver, can get this consistent at 300')
171 Champ Leopard (Annys, hyzer flips)
174 ESP Buzz (Lay-ups over 100')
172 Banger (putting inside and out of circle)

I have decided to disc down further and focus on my mid range and putter game along with correct form

New PRACTICE bag will now consist of:
175 DX Eagle (drives over 300')
172 X Comet (Any shot between 150' to around 300')
174 SSS Voodoo (putting and layups less than 200')

Is this a good start for me to improve my game?

 

[Brodysseus]

Is this a good start for me to improve my game?

It's a wonderful start. That X Comet is the best learning tool you have, make sure to throw it a ton! It will teach you to throw smooth and OAT-free.

 

[DiscNutt123]

I don't always follow discing down, but when I do, I think it's the greatest thing to help break down your technique, improve it, and help lead to better scores in the long run.
On a good drive, I can max out at around 340ft with the Valkyries and am trying to work my way back up to the faster discs that I grew accustomed to before. If I can get these fairways out there to 340, I'd hope that I can translate that technique training to the faster drivers out there and hope to reach 400ft by August! I know there will be a lost of overlaps in discs in my bag, and I know that. I'm not worried about that at the moment, strictly distance and accuracy.
I took all of the Surges, Destroyers, and the like out of my bag, only pulling out the occasional Valkyrie for hyzer flips on 400+ ft holes, and here's what I have left:

Valkyrie Champion 4x (Hyzerflips that fade at the end)
Valkyrie Champion 5x (Hyzerflips that stay straight or slightly turn)
Eagle Star (Big flex shots)
Eagle Champion 12x (Straight)
Eagle Champion 11x (Hyzers and headwinds)
Teebird Champion 12x (Overstable)
Teebird Champion 12x (Straight)
Teebird Star (Straight backup)
Teebird-L Star (Hyzerflips and turnovers)
River Opto (Huge anhyzers)
River Opto (Soft anhyzers)
Striker Opto (Stupidly overstable!)
Striker Opto (Straight)
Zone ESP (Overstable within 200ft)
Roc Star (Slightly overstable)
Roc3 (Overstable and headwinds)
Roc KC 12x (Slightly overstable)
Roc KC 12x (Straight)
Roc DX (Slightly understable, glides more)
Demon (Crazy Overstable longer than Zone)
Panther (Understable turnovers to hyzerflips)
APX (Understable putter, dead straight hyzerflips)
Firebird (super Flat top 12x = meathook)
Aviar Driver (Overstable for winds)
Aviar PnA (Straight with slight fade, approaches)
JK Pro Aviar (Putts only)
JK Pro Aviar (Putts only)

There is more overlap in this bag than I've seen in my life!! 3 Eagles, 4 Teebirds and 2 Rivers. Wow.

 

[nrihan]

I have been throwing Teebirds, Patriots, Rivers, Rivals and my Firebird. Maxing out around 350-360. I used to hit that with Wraiths and Destroyers. Once I buy another HS driver, I will be interested to see how far I can chuck it. 400 ( with fairways) by summers end is the goal.