Discraft Great Lakes Open - May 31st - June 2nd

[_MTL_]

It's nearly impossible to do a payout without the numbers..

but look at the payout for US Masters. This was NOTHING close to what the PDGA suggested. And almost every pro player told me they loved the payout.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/99300

If I remember correctly, first was showing like $2,700 and 6th was around $400. John Baldwin said "I can't believe I got so much for 6th"

Until our sport is playing for millions of dollars, we need flatter payouts so more people make money.

The only event I've ever seen ran by touring pros was run by Avery and Nate and their payout was insanely flat.

I emailed Avery after the event asking about the flat payout and said something along the lines of "I'm sure everyone liked it more"

Here was his response in his email:

"Really?!?! A flatter, fatter payout......Who would have thought to pay out the players properly.

Tats how it always should be and after playing in over 300+ Pro Events its about time it actually happened. I am going to really push for such payouts in the future at other tournaments.

I need to go through the payouts and figure the percentages.

The PDGA needs to figure that out someday.

See you at Worlds.

Avery Jenkins"

 

[_MTL_]

NTs have payout rules

Is this the case for Majors as well? Because I expressed my desire to Andrew Sweeton to flatten the payout and he said as long as it wasn't ridiculous (everyone getting the same thing or twice as much for first, etc) and I paid the minimum percertange of players, I could pretty much do whatever I wanted.

Maybe that was a privledge I was given?

 

[_MTL_]

I know MTL has said (and I agree) that the pros now prefer flatter payouts because they many times "flattened" them anyway after the event by leveling out the money amongst themselves as travelers, especially when sponsored by the same company.

At one point, Feldberg was trying to get 20 players from throughout disc golf to pool their money together for an entire year and then split it at the end.

I've seen the email to Justin Jernigan about it.

It said something along the lines of "let's all make the same amount of money and we then are competing for bonuses and pride"

 

[Cgkdisc]

Majors payouts have fallen outside the PDGA payout tables because in the Open and Advanced divisions, there are more players than the number provided for on the official tables. So over the years the TDs, Hoeniger, Gentry, Graham, Sweeton, myself, etc. have interpolated from the tables. So far, even though Avery is on the Competition Committee, there's been no formal push to revise the tables for flatter payout.

Following on Feldberg's "20 communists" idea, you could design a system so only the top X number of players would qualify to play in the Super Gold division the following year. The Super Gold division would be offered if at least four showed up and all added cash would just be split among these players at that event (no entry fee needed). They would play each other for winning honors and essentially be doing an exhibition. The regular pros would have an entry fee and division that just had 100% payout playing for each other's money.

 

[_MTL_]

Exactly what we don't neeed - another division.

 

[BlackAce]

Well, I had known there was a big thread here I would have popped on and dropped information as I had it here. I had no clue...

Changes in the original round 1 group pairings was per a "suggestion" from the PDGA. That was why that was changed.

Just for a short version on the payouts, the MDGO (Michigan Disc Golf Organization; it is a group of all of the main clubs and promoters in Michigan) have a different vision as to what the payouts should be for the top end disc golf events and you can see what that looks like. Everyone of course has their opinion and rationale as for how they want to handle that and to me that is ok.

Our thoughts are obviously, finishing at the top end of these events should come with a premium cash payouts. The larger cash payouts to players are what will help drive the sport/player forward on their tour vs. a smaller payouts to a little larger number of people. I am sure people think that is perhaps not the right direction but we think that is the best path. We of are a non-flatter payouts mind.

Overall, both the NT and the A tier event I think went pretty well with a whole new group of players running the event. This was a 1st time for just about everything as far as the staff was concerned, let alone running dual events at the same time at courses about 30 minutes apart. We did have some members that have run/assisted at the USADGC but not on the NT end. We will all be there again this weekend running that event and we will have a meeting to discuss things now while it is fresh in our mind as for what we can do next year to make improvements on this event.

Thanks to our spotters and volunteers firstly. Secondly, thanks to the players that came. Thirdly, thanks to the spectators that came to watch. It was great on Sunday to see a nice crowd out on the course. THAT is what I think needs to really be addressed at all top end events. How can we get more people to come and watch an event. Spectators is the next step in being able to get sponsorship money. For the "real" growth in the sport for the future, we really need outside corporate sponsorships of these events and for that we need to have people that are exposed to their product/message.

Any other questions or comments and I would be happy to address them from my point of view.

Mark Stephens
DGLO Assistant TD

 

[_MTL_]

Well, I had known there was a big thread here I would have popped on and dropped information as I had it here. I had no clue...

Changes in the original round 1 group pairings was per a "suggestion" from the PDGA. That was why that was changed.

Just for a short version on the payouts, the MDGO (Michigan Disc Golf Organization; it is a group of all of the main clubs and promoters in Michigan) have a different vision as to what the payouts should be for the top end disc golf events and you can see what that looks like. Everyone of course has their opinion and rationale as for how they want to handle that and to me that is ok.

Our thoughts are obviously, finishing at the top end of these events should come with a premium cash payouts. The larger cash payouts to players are what will help drive the sport/player forward on their tour vs. a smaller payouts to a little larger number of people. I am sure people think that is perhaps not the right direction but we think that is the best path. We of are a non-flatter payouts mind.

Overall, both the NT and the A tier event I think went pretty well with a whole new group of players running the event. This was a 1st time for just about everything as far as the staff was concerned, let alone running dual events at the same time at courses about 30 minutes apart. We did have some members that have run/assisted at the USADGC but not on the NT end. We will all be there again this weekend running that event and we will have a meeting to discuss things now while it is fresh in our mind as for what we can do next year to make improvements on this event.

Thanks to our spotters and volunteers firstly. Secondly, thanks to the players that came. Thirdly, thanks to the spectators that came to watch. It was great on Sunday to see a nice crowd out on the course. THAT is what I think needs to really be addressed at all top end events. How can we get more people to come and watch an event. Spectators is the next step in being able to get sponsorship money. For the "real" growth in the sport for the future, we really need outside corporate sponsorships of these events and for that we need to have people that are exposed to their product/message.

Any other questions or comments and I would be happy to address them from my point of view.

Mark Stephens
DGLO Assistant TD

Thanks for the post. I disagree completely about payouts, obviously, but have serious respect for anyone running an event of this size, raising that much money and taking the time to defend a point of view. :thmbup:

 

[BlackAce]

Sure, I can respect that as well as understand and respect your point of view on it. We all want the sport to get to the same prosperous future for the sport and its players.

 

[HmRnKngJC25]

As a lifer Am1 Player, I got paired up with two sponsored pro's the first round. Cameron C. and James Cole. Cameron proved to be really human on the front nine and blazed the back. He was pretty tame when he took some hits and was upbeat when his play turned around. Fun to watch play. I shot a personal best anywhere and ended up on fourth card for Friday. This meaning I got to play with Nikko, and the quoted tirades. He did have two bogeys (6 and 16), 6 he had a good drive and then dumped his second into the woods. his 3rd didn't get completely to the green then missed a 35' from slight tall grass. Then on 16 he took an odd route, landed in the rough then couldn't get close and missed another 20' from just off the green. Missed about two other makable birdies to finish at a 54. Still wasn't very pleased, complained on a few holes just because there wasn't a 50% chance he could birdie. I only managed to shoot an even 62. I was glad to be on the same card as him as well as not being on super card with 3 top pros. The other two were 970-980 players. We don't have to talk about the 3rd round.

Dislikes about the tourney
-no players pack. just a small take away noting that i played in the tourney. I know some other NT's have lil bag tags and such.
-no players party or something to get everyone together.
-late information regarding tee times. I know we can't get exact times but a rough would be hopeful.

 

[BlackAce]

Yeah, next year we would close registration one day earlier allowing for knowin your tee time one more day in advance.

We did provide a lite breakfast every day, a Discraft metal water bottle, and paid your daily $2 course fee. While, it is not a direct tangible player pack, it was something but I get what you are saying.

I will say something about Nikko that I experienced. After the event he took time and talked with his fans, signed a lot of discs, and allowed a fan to take him off to side and take a lot of posed photographs.

 

[fishmich]

Yeah, next year we would close registration one day earlier allowing for knowin your tee time one more day in advance.

We did provide a lite breakfast every day, a Discraft metal water bottle, and paid your daily $2 course fee. While, it is not a direct tangible player pack, it was something but I get what you are saying.

I will say something about Nikko that I experienced. After the event he took time and talked with his fans, signed a lot of discs, and allowed a fan to take him off to side and take a lot of posed photographs.

great job mark and the rest of the crew on this event. great to see an event like this here at home and it seemed like everything went really well. im really looking forward to next weekend so thanks for putting all this time in for two huge events back to back.

nikko seemed very cool to me as well. went out of his way to start up a conversation with me during his round because he liked my shirt and always seemed very friendly and interactive with the spectators. most of the pros were very approachable and friendly.

 

[loki993]

I will say something about Nikko that I experienced. After the event he took time and talked with his fans, signed a lot of discs, and allowed a fan to take him off to side and take a lot of posed photographs.

I will say one thing, these guys, and girls, are out there doing their job basically. Sure its a fun job I'm sure but still a job, its not like a weekly league night. They're out there concentrating on their game, they're not out there to just have fun. I wouldn't expect someone to be the same way out on the course as when they weren't. Now is that an excuse for tirades out on the course....not really but all I'm saying is maybe not judge someone by how they are on the course, but how they are off of it...they can be two different people. That said I had a bit of an interaction with Nikko on 8 and he was nothing but cool and nice to me...of course that could be because he had just parked the damn thing lol

I also heard about him signing discs after and somehow I missed him....oh well next time.....

 

[HmRnKngJC25]

Yeah, next year we would close registration one day earlier allowing for knowin your tee time one more day in advance.

We did provide a lite breakfast every day, a Discraft metal water bottle, and paid your daily $2 course fee. While, it is not a direct tangible player pack, it was something but I get what you are saying.

I will say something about Nikko that I experienced. After the event he took time and talked with his fans, signed a lot of discs, and allowed a fan to take him off to side and take a lot of posed photographs.

Those water bottles were for us? I thought it was for the spotters (who got hooked up!)

Nikko and everyone else did take all the time in the world to sign discs and talk. I did witness someone give Nikko a stiff wizard on Friday to sign. He liked it so much he took a putter out of this bag, signed it and gave it to the chap, then proceeded to tell him to come by his car and get some more discs. He was using it on Saturday during his round too. Quite a funny story.

 

[loki993]

Those water bottles were for us? I thought it was for the spotters (who got hooked up!)

Nikko and everyone else did take all the time in the world to sign discs and talk. I did witness someone give Nikko a stiff wizard on Friday to sign. He liked it so much he took a putter out of this bag, signed it and gave it to the chap, then proceeded to tell him to come by his car and get some more discs. He was using it on Saturday during his round too. Quite a funny story.

I got one but someone in the gallery straight up stole is when they were on 8 watching the lead group lol. I put it in the grass and when I went back to get it to follow the group in it was gone lol

As for the putter I noticed that Nikko was putting with a wizard on Saturday and Sunday and was a bit surprised about it...awesome story though....

One thing I've noticed playing disc golf for even the short time I've been playing is that everyone I've met at any level of the sport has been really cool. No one seems to mind if you suck, where you came from, what you do or what you look like....everyones just out there having a good time.....

 

[TheShark]

One thing I've noticed playing disc golf for even the short time I've been playing is that everyone I've met at any level of the sport has been really cool. No one seems to mind if you suck, where you came from, what you do or what you look like....everyones just out there having a good time.....

Why we are addicted and love this game!

 

[King John Henry]

I got one but someone in the gallery straight up stole is when they were on 8 watching the lead group lol. I put it in the grass and when I went back to get it to follow the group in it was gone lol

I actually saw someone pick up a Discraft water bottle on 8 as they were walking to 9 and they were asking around if anyone had dropped it. I don't think it was stolen maliciously.

 

[Kenny53691]

most of the pros were very approachable and friendly.

That is why a stereo type that I hope reflects disc golfers everywhere.

 

[loki993]

Why we are addicted and love this game!

Indeed

I actually saw someone pick up a Discraft water bottle on 8 as they were walking to 9 and they were asking around if anyone had dropped it. I don't think it was stolen maliciously.

Ahh, now that makes a lot more sense, I bet that was mine...I was really curious as to why some would steal a water bottle anyway, I figured maybe they were really thirsty lol. I wasn't mad about it or anything, I just thought it was kinda odd. I can definitely see someone thinking someone dropped it though, too bad I didnt hear them, oh well... Probably wasn't the best place to put it down but we were getting set up for the disc to start coming and and didn't have a ton of time.

 

[unclemercy]

 

[unclemercy]

also if its gonna be that kind of party im gonna stick my disc in the potato salad. did some sort of rule of verticality use to exist?