Do You Need to Think About the Follow Through?

[drk_evns]

Punch through the target, not to the target. etc.

I'm not so sure about this being applicable.

Though, I think with what you're saying is to focus on getting the shoulder moving and the arm out and letting it fly?

If anything, it feels like I'm stopping my shoulders briefly to allow everything to uncoil out ahead of me. The reality is they don't stop completely.

_

I'm not saying there isn't a follow through—there certainly is, and it doesn't look much different thinking about it this way... but it feels different and allows for the elbow to get out front and create a big power pocket. It also makes aiming infinitely easier imo

 

[Brychanus]

I think there is a little meaningful variability in top forms in terms of the rear shoulder getting inside the posture/driving the swing like drk is saying.

A bit ago we had that lively discussion involving sidewinder, Jaani, and some others (starting around this post from blayed), with SW eventually pointing out what looks like the very aggressive move Ellis made when he was younger involving the rear shoulder leading into the swing. Like most things I've messed with that too and found exaggerating it more "inside" the posture could help, but I didn't ever really have the quickness, coordination, or flexibility to pull of that Ellis move that aggressively and know where the hell the disc would go. I had so many other problems with my movement that I put it aside.

Then recently two handed X step tosses with a sledge help me get the whole thing work together. I'm probably a good example in terms of being a body outlier that proves the point. Since my shoulders are so wide w/ very short arms I need to maintain a lot of leverage from them moving inside my posture when I plant and a wide shoulder angle at release or I lose a lot of swing power quickly. Like, 50-70' difference for me. But that's in the context of a lot of the other posture working "well enough." I still need to be getting enough out of my momentum and body mass shifting beforehand, and just keep working to make it more and more like an efficient sledge toss. Very natural, very strong, athletic but low effort. Also helping me find an "optimal" swing plane for power for my body. It does have an effect like "basing" the whip from the rear shoulder. You can see that effect in the rear shoulder here. I don't have to think about it too much after a few weeks doing sledge drills.

On topic to follow through, whatever the case my "finish" position usually looks less complete any time the rear shoulder drags behind in any way and is not part of the posture leading the swing. Just don't want to overcook it so much and it feels more obvious to me when I'm overdoing it with the heavy sledge.

I do think slashing through and working back from the follow through & the release point are meaningful tools.

 

[Sheep]

haha, you do kinda have the t-rex arms thing going on. =D hahaha.

I think Dark has kind of just hit on a different way to explain what a lot of us are churning in our brains.
I have to mull over it some more.

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah, I'm curious where others are at on the topic. FWIW a lot of the natural swing aids like hammers usually needed me to work on other things too, but my body seems to respond well to them. I thought it was interesting that my rear shoulder started doing that on its own in the sledge throws for example.

Body implications/questions: Ellis vs. me are good examples of body extreme opposites. We'd probably compare like me vs. this guy who was on the forums for a bit.

This is just another case in point why it's fraught to try to carbon copy any one pro. I'm very crowded at the chest and even with an athletic slope in my posture to create space, the disc literally won't fit in a high "pocket" deep enough to get good leverage. So I need to swing somewhere between my navel and sternum for any power. If I break the leverage anywhere along the chain from my rear shoulder, I get predictably weaker and more wild swings.

The wide shoulder angle thing I'm talking about above kind of just happened on its own, but I did fuss around with a few options before I ended up with the sledge toss-like swing overall and in terms of the rear shoulder. I almost wonder if Ellis can pull off what looks like a much more aggressive drive just because his body is overall bean-polier and lighter, whereas I'm going to need to sling it like a heavy mass with my heavy mAss*. Just more early morning speculation.

I do really think there are body optima for each person (including how they train), but it takes time to find them - some of it is also predictable just looking at a player's body. Each person needs to figure out where they generate power easily when they move. Maybe Navel will come back around with his AI solution sometime ;-)

Anyway, finding tools that help you swing freely and free of mind are great, whatever they are.

Oh, this is a thread about follow through - follow through the swing momentum like a good sledge toss and it's much less likely you get hurt. Seems to be saving my knees some wear and tear too.

*edit: oopsie, almost regretted what I wrote. To be clear, I think leading with your mAss is an important principle in a high-level swing, just saying that different bodies wear it a bit differently.

 

[Sheep]

Yeah, I'm curious where others are at on the topic. FWIW a lot of the natural swing aids like hammers usually needed me to work on other things too, but my body seems to respond well to them. I thought it was interesting that my rear shoulder started doing that on its own in the sledge throws for example.

Body implications/questions: Ellis vs. me are good body extreme opposites. We'd probably compare like me vs. this guy who was on the forums for a bit.
View attachment 313502
This is just another case in point why it's fraught to try to carbon copy any one pro. I'm very crowded at the chest and even with an athletic slope in my posture to create space, the disc literally won't fit in a high "pocket" deep enough to get good leverage. So I need to swing somewhere between my navel and sternum for any power. If I break the leverage anywhere along the chain from my rear shoulder, I get predictably weaker and more wild swings.

The wide shoulder angle thing I'm talking about above kind of just happened on its own, but I did fuss around with a few options before I ended up with the sledge toss-like swing overall and in terms of the rear shoulder. I almost wonder if Ellis can pull off what looks like a much more aggressive drive just because his body is overall bean-polier and lighter, whereas I'm going to need to sling it like a heavy mass with my heavy mAss. Just more early morning speculation.

I do really think there are body optima for each person (including how they train), but it takes time to find them - some of it is also predictable just looking at a player's body. Each person needs to figure out where they generate power easily when they move. Maybe Navel will come back around with his AI solution sometime ;-)

Anyway, finding tools that help you swing freely and free of mind are great, whatever they are.

Oh, this is a thread about follow through - follow through the swing momentum like a good sledge toss and it's much less likely you get hurt. Seems to be saving my knees some wear and tear too.

One of my students who.. just got so far beyond what any of any of us can figure out came to a conclusion throwing that you can actually throw off your rear shoulder. Which I'm like "whaaa?"

This gentleman has a touch of autism, so he has that "free focus on what I like" factor where he will go out and throw and throw and throw and throw into a rug. (dude actually has worn rugs out)
But he would share some of his data with me, and this was an interesting one, but it came down to some weird off arm mechanics and how you anchored your off arm.

No way to really prove or disprove any of it, but basically looking at off arm anchored inside the leg, or behind the leg, which basically changes your off arm leverage point as it resists the turn of the shoulders during the swim motion.

Would certainly be a neat mechanic if we had a way to use it on command, so someone like you with broad shoulders could suddenly just leverage your full shoulder set.